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[Zombie_61]

Al, once again my deepest condolences in the loss of your wife. As for your hat choice, it sounds like you have hit the mark for her celebration. My thoughts are with you.

Belated and sincere sorrow for your loss, Al. I don't think I can say anything else.

Very sorry for your loss, AL.

My belated condolences also, Al. I'm just now learning of your loss, not venturing into many threads here anymore. May happy memories of your yrs together soon replace your sorrow.

Al, I’m so sorry for your loss. I’ll keep you and your family in my thoughts and prayers.

My heartfelt condolences, Al. It must be a difficult time.

Sounds like your choice of hat would be perfect to celebrate happy memories of your dear wife.

First off, I think you know best what your wife and family would consider "respectful", but your plans sound to me like a fine way to honor your wife.

Second, just to relay a recent experience - I struggled with whether or not to wear a tasteful black fedora to a graveside funeral service and burial, with plans to remove my hat during the prayers and actual service, but I chickened out at the last moment and went hatless. Being balding and fair skinned, I severely sunburned my head in just over an hour, and dealt with the results for almost three weeks. I doubt the handful of folks that wore ball caps to the service suffered the same fate.

I say wear the hat of your choice in a way that you feel would honor your cherished partner.

So terribly sorry for your loss, Al.
I can only reiterate what others have said about the hat choice. I can’t imagine anyone being upset at your choice.

My sincere appreciation and thanks to all of you for both the sympathy and the advice! I've decided I'll wear the hat at the wake because that will be a more casual evening environment. The church service and interment are the next day, and I'll leave the hat at home because I'm pretty sure that leaving it in the car for an hour (while I'm in the church) on a day when the temperature is predicted to be 90°F would only ensure I'd never be able to wear it again.

 

[hambone71]

My sincere appreciation and thanks to all of you for both the sympathy and the advice! I've decided I'll wear the hat at the wake because that will be a more casual evening environment. The church service and interment are the next day, and I'll leave the hat at home because I'm pretty sure that leaving it in the car for an hour (while I'm in the church) on a day when the temperature is predicted to be 90°F would only ensure I'd never be able to wear it again.

I’m new around here and I don’t know anyone on this forum as no one knows me either. However, I would also like to offer my condolences. I hope and pray for the best as you and her loved ones cope with this loss. God bless!

 

[Zombie_61]

I’m new around here and I don’t know anyone on this forum as no one knows me either. However, I would also like to offer my condolences. I hope and pray for the best as you and her loved ones cope with this loss. God bless!

Thank you, I appreciate that!

 

[The Shoe]

I’ve tried to find the answer on other threads, but can’t find anything specific to what I’m looking for.
How do you go about cleaning a fabric sweatband on a toyo straw hat? It’s in its 5th season. I haven’t sweated profusely in it, but there’s just a little grime build-up visible.

 

[belfastboy]

I’ve tried to find the answer on other threads, but can’t find anything specific to what I’m looking for.
How do you go about cleaning a fabric sweatband on a toyo straw hat? It’s in its 5th season. I haven’t sweated profusely in it, but there’s just a little grime build-up visible.

I have had success flipping out the sweat band, using a toothbrush (not our wife's) and a mild soap gently brush the sweat using a fair bit of water. If you have the sweat outboard of the straw and have the hat upright the water will not touch the straw. Not quick but with patience it cleans it.

 

[The Shoe]

I have had success flipping out the sweat band, using a toothbrush (not our wife's) and a mild soap gently brush the sweat using a fair bit of water. If you have the sweat outboard of the straw and have the hat upright the water will not touch the straw. Not quick but with patience it cleans it.

Thanks, Robert. Sounds like a plan.
In fact it sounds pretty much exactly like the plan my wife suggested!

 

[dkstott]

My sincere appreciation and thanks to all of you for both the sympathy and the advice! I've decided I'll wear the hat at the wake because that will be a more casual evening environment. The church service and interment are the next day, and I'll leave the hat at home because I'm pretty sure that leaving it in the car for an hour (while I'm in the church) on a day when the temperature is predicted to be 90°F would only ensure I'd never be able to wear it again.

My belated condolences to you and your family. I'm sorry to hear this .

 

[Who?]

I’d say, follow your heart Al. Do what you think she would say for you to do. That would honor her and i think she would be at peace with that.
I hope you will be as well.
Thank you for allowing us in during such a difficult time.
B

I wish to add my voice to those supporting this advice.

She was your mate, and the way to honor her memory, and her place in your heart is just as stated by Abba. Try not to get too caught up in what others will think.

My wife died in 1983, at the age of 41, so I have some perspective here.

I didn’t check the dates on your posts, so I may be much too late with this.

Friends may share sorrow, as well as joy, in the hope of diminishing it.

 

[Who?]

When dining outside at a nice restaurant, may a gentleman leave his hat on, or is that a big-time no-no?

I seem to recall reading that it is acceptable, but I can't find a definitive statement one way or the other.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

When dining outside at a nice restaurant, may a gentleman leave his hat on, or is that a big-time no-no?

I seem to recall reading that it is acceptable, but I can't find a definitive statement one way or the other.

All such rules are contrived and subject to change and interpretation. What set of rules are you concerned about?

My “rule” is if the restaurant doesn’t offer a dedicated safe spot to store my hat it stays on my head. If it’s a really nice restaurant and they don’t have a hat check or hat hooks at the table, I leave my hat in the car. There isn’t always an empty seat to leave it on and you can’t be expected to place an expensive hat in peril. Churches, funerals, National Anthem, etc. are simple and easy choices for me to doff my hat, as are other peoples homes, but the other instances are all a mixed bag and who really cares? 80+ years ago men kept their hats on while eating indoors at lunch counters etc. when there wasn’t a place that safely store their hats. Even back in the golden era it wasn’t expected that men doff their hats in every restaurant etc.

There are several threads here on hat etiquette if you want to read past discussions. There are differing opinions on the topic.

 

[Who?]

All such rules are contrived and subject to change and interpretation.

Of course they are, all standards of human interaction and behavior are.

There are things which one does in public, and there are things which one does not do in public.

Some things are only done in public by the ignorant and the boorish. Wearing a hat while dining indoors in a proper restaurant is one of those things.

I am looking for clarification when dining outdoors at a proper restaurant, wishing to appear neither ignorant nor boorish.

 

[Frunobulax]

Of course they are, all standards of human interaction and behavior are.

There are things which one does in public, and there are things which one does not do in public.

Some things are only done in public by the ignorant and the boorish. Wearing a hat while dining indoors in a proper restaurant is one of those things.

I am looking for clarification when dining outdoors at a proper restaurant, wishing to appear neither ignorant nor boorish.

In my book, it's OK. If there's not a roof over your head, a hat is OK while dining.

As opposed to many on this forum who think the historical "rules" are outdated, I generally agree with you. There are some grey areas at the margins, but (to me) most of them make sense, either from a practical perspective, or as a way of showing respect for others.

Of course, deferring to others to show respect isn't something that gets as much attention as it should anymore.

 

[Bill Hughes]

Of course they are, all standards of human interaction and behavior are.

There are things which one does in public, and there are things which one does not do in public.

Some things are only done in public by the ignorant and the boorish. Wearing a hat while dining indoors in a proper restaurant is one of those things.

I am looking for clarification when dining outdoors at a proper restaurant, wishing to appear neither ignorant nor boorish.

I personally just never wear a hat at the dining table. If I have no place to put it I take it back to the vehicle. Usually I can sit it on my wife’s purse.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Of course they are, all standards of human interaction and behavior are.

There are things which one does in public, and there are things which one does not do in public.

Some things are only done in public by the ignorant and the boorish. Wearing a hat while dining indoors in a proper restaurant is one of those things.

I am looking for clarification when dining outdoors at a proper restaurant, wishing to appear neither ignorant nor boorish.

Respectfully, I disagree. We don’t live in a time with the rigid rules of etiquette that previous generations did. We also don’t live in a world where most restaurants offer a coat and hat check…at least not in the warmer climes where I live. If I’m wearing a hat, and my car is a mile away, and the restaurant doesn’t offer a safe place to store my hat, it stays on my head while I eat. The people who would think that boorish or ignorant are not those whose opinions I care about.

Obsessive following or old etiquette rules can come across as an affectation. Like tipping your hat to women while giving them the “m’lady” salutation. Also think about the why. Why remove your hat while dining? Are you blocking someone’s view? If the function no longer exists but the custom remains I just don’t give it much weight. I have nothing against those who choose to follow old etiquette rules, but I don’t find it in the least bit offensive if others chose otherwise.

Feel free to disagree.

 

[Who?]

Respectfully, I disagree. We don’t live in a time with the rigid rules of etiquette that previous generations did. We also don’t live in a world where most restaurants offer a coat and hat check…at least not in the warmer climes where I live. If I’m wearing a hat, and my car is a mile away, and the restaurant doesn’t offer a safe place to store my hat, it stays on my head while I eat. The people who would think that boorish or ignorant are not those whose opinions I care about.

Obsessive following or old etiquette rules can come across as an affectation. Like tipping your hat to women while giving them the “m’lady” salutation. Also think about the why. Why remove your hat while dining? Are you blocking someone’s view? If the function no longer exists but the custom remains I just don’t give it much weight. I have nothing against those who choose to follow old etiquette rules, but I don’t find it in the least bit offensive if others chose otherwise.

Feel free to disagree.

I don’t disagree with you at all.

Perhaps I worded my post poorly, but people eating in public while wearing a baseball cap strike me as rude. I am very much an antique, my grandparents were born in the 1880s and my parents before 1910. I was a little boy during the late 1930s. I don’t remember my grandparents as rigid, but they were certainly proper, and my upbringing definitely reflected their standards, both directly and though my parents. I guess some of it survives to this day.

Your points are well taken, and I think the hat will stay on.

Thank you.

Addendum: Well, there we sat, in a lovely outdoor setting, surrounded by water, and potted flowering plants, with other folks at other tables having a nice quiet (and rather elegant) lunch. While we awaited our appetizer my Other Half said quietly to me “Are you going to take your hat off?”

So often our plans go awry, and our intentions become as dust in the wind.

 

[Bill Hughes]

Respectfully, I disagree. We don’t live in a time with the rigid rules of etiquette that previous generations did. We also don’t live in a world where most restaurants offer a coat and hat check…at least not in the warmer climes where I live. If I’m wearing a hat, and my car is a mile away, and the restaurant doesn’t offer a safe place to store my hat, it stays on my head while I eat. The people who would think that boorish or ignorant are not those whose opinions I care about.

Obsessive following or old etiquette rules can come across as an affectation. Like tipping your hat to women while giving them the “m’lady” salutation. Also think about the why. Why remove your hat while dining? Are you blocking someone’s view? If the function no longer exists but the custom remains I just don’t give it much weight. I have nothing against those who choose to follow old etiquette rules, but I don’t find it in the least bit offensive if others chose otherwise.

Feel free to disagree.

Taking a hat off at the table - it’s just the way I was raised. I have yet to not find a place to put my hat. I have a little hanger that allows me to hang it on the back of my chair in most cases. While serving in the Marine Corps there were times when I was required to keep my cover (hat) on while eating in the chow hall. It always bothered me but I did it. I live in Texas and often see men in cowboy hats and caps eating in restaurants without removing them. I find it distasteful but would never try to impose my view nor say anything. If you are sitting at my table - then the rules change.

 

[Frunobulax]

I don’t disagree with you at all.

Perhaps I worded my post poorly, but people eating in public while wearing a baseball cap strike me as rude. I am very much an antique, my grandparents were born in the 1880s and my parents before 1910. I was a little boy during the late 1930s. I don’t remember my grandparents as rigid, but they were certainly proper, and my upbringing definitely reflected their standards, both directly and though my parents. I guess some of it survives to this day.

Your points are well taken, and I think the hat will stay on.

Thank you.

It can get contentious when discussing, but to me it's part and parcel of a general breakdown in etiquette and manners that makes life a bit more coarse than it should be. I mean, what's the practical purpose of opening a door for a lady? Or changing out of your PJ's to go shopping? I mean, if it works for you, it must be OK is the modern perspective.

Objective standards are so antiquated and passé.

 

[belfastboy]

It can get contentious when discussing, but to me it's part and parcel of a general breakdown in etiquette and manners that makes life a bit more coarse than it should be. I mean, what's the practical purpose of opening a door for a lady? Or changing out of your PJ's to go shopping? I mean, if it works for you, it must be OK is the modern perspective.

Objective standards are so antiquated and passé.

I too was raised 'old school'...1950's & 60's....... but have a different perspective. My wife and I dine out but these days not much if at all in 'fine dining' establishments. We prefer our own cooking for the most part. So our date nights (or days) are at ethnic restaurants or craft brew joints....decidedly on the casual side. We dress up...sort of....and I invariably leave my hat on.....as does my wife. It seems to suit the time and place. I do still hold the doors for women (and for men as the occasion suits), open the car door for my wife but I do usually leave my hat on.

 

[belfastboy]

I’ve tried to find the answer on other threads, but can’t find anything specific to what I’m looking for.
How do you go about cleaning a fabric sweatband on a toyo straw hat? It’s in its 5th season. I haven’t sweated profusely in it, but there’s just a little grime build-up visible.

One further thought: I have discovered the key when cleaning about anything is that the 'dirt/soiling' has to have a pathway out of the fibre.

Cleaning it with soap or whatever is not enough. The area needs to be flooded with water in order to flush the dirt away. Otherwise you end up just chasing the stain around or at best diluting it.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

It can get contentious when discussing, but to me it's part and parcel of a general breakdown in etiquette and manners that makes life a bit more coarse than it should be. I mean, what's the practical purpose of opening a door for a lady? Or changing out of your PJ's to go shopping? I mean, if it works for you, it must be OK is the modern perspective.

Objective standards are so antiquated and passé.

There was a time when the less formal dinner jacket/suit (aka tuxedo) caused a scandal. Of course it you wear a dinner jacket most places today you are an overdressed oddity. Professional or white collar workers wouldn’t consider wearing anything less than a suit to work. Sport coats were for sporting events and men’s etiquette called for ties or some sort of neckwear for fishing, shooting, golfing etc. Even blue collar workers wore suits to church and ties were not optional. Tweeds were only for the country and no gentleman would be seen in public in his shirt sleeves! We all draw the line at different places and I’d care as much about someone thinking I shouldn’t wear my hat at a restaurant as you might for someone thinking you were dressed inappropriately for church if not wearing a suit and tie.

I agree that the falling standards are not to my tastes, but I’m also not wanting go back to where things were. I do think that kindness and consideration for others are timeless attributes of someone who was raised right, but all the contrived rules of etiquette that are not based on something more substantial than tradition are open to personal interpretation.