Ask a question, get an answer

[georgie girl]

I looked through the forum to find an answer, but way too many rabbit holes to go down so I'll ask it here: I have a '50's Dobbs Twenty that I bought about a month ago, no bow or liner. It has varying shades of where a ribbon or two was and I have decided to go with the smaller ribbon, darker shade. I've decided to go with the 1" ribbon, however I'm not certain if bows were the same size regardless of width. The bow size on my 60's wormser is approx 4" long for a 2" ribbon, were bows still 4" long with a 1" ribbon?

 

[belfastboy]

I looked through the forum to find an answer, but way too many rabbit holes to go down so I'll ask it here: I have a '50's Dobbs Twenty that I bought about a month ago, no bow or liner. It has varying shades of where a ribbon or two was and I have decided to go with the smaller ribbon, darker shade. I've decided to go with the 1" ribbon, however I'm not certain if bows were the same size regardless of width. The bow size on my 60's wormser is approx 4" long for a 2" ribbon, were bows still 4" long with a 1" ribbon?

In my collection of hats, contemporary stock, custom and vintage 2" on either side of the bow keeper seems to be the norm. It is seemingly a moveable scale, some are a bit shorter some longer and this is on ribbons from 3/4" up to 2" wide. To me it would be a matter of taste....what works for you? I just made a light grey hat with a black 1" ribbon and it seemed to me that the bow 2" in length each side of the keeper seemed to be aesthetically about right.

 

[Emilis]

Hello everyone,

Was again watching how Art Fawcett was making the fedora, and I have a few questions:

1) What kind of sand paper is he using to sand the felt (attaching picture1)?
2) Why after the sanding process he again leaves the hat to stay overnight?
3) What is that white tape that he puts in the intersection of both ends of the sweatband and why (attaching picture2)?
4) Silly question, but why do you need to add a bow to a sweatband?

Thank you in advance for your answers!

Warmly,
Emilis

Picture1:

Picture2:

 

[SteveFord]

Not a question but more of an observation.
I'd just like to say Thank You to all of the members here.
I've learned a tremendous amount from reading through the posts and asking stupid questions and making mostly erroneous observations!
This site is a tremendous resource, I'm glad I stumbled upon it looking for a fedora for sale.

 

[belfastboy]

Hello everyone,

Was again watching how Art Fawcett was making the fedora, and I have a few questions:

1) What kind of sand paper is he using to sand the felt (attaching picture1)?
2) Why after the sanding process he again leaves the hat to stay overnight?
3) What is that white tape that he puts in the intersection of both ends of the sweatband and why (attaching picture2)?
4) Silly question, but why do you need to add a bow to a sweatband?

Thank you in advance for your answers!

Warmly,
Emilis

Picture1:
View attachment 229460

Picture2:
View attachment 229461

1. not sure what type/brand but Art uses from 600 grit up to a very fine 1200 grit
2. I think (without checking) he leaves it at that point as he has done enough for the day.
3. it is a fabric tape to hold the ends exactly in place prior to stitching the ends together.
4. I don't know its origin but now it is tradition. My guess is to provide a prominent visual to show the back of the hat.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Hello everyone,

Was again watching how Art Fawcett was making the fedora, and I have a few questions:

1) What kind of sand paper is he using to sand the felt (attaching picture1)?
2) Why after the sanding process he again leaves the hat to stay overnight?
3) What is that white tape that he puts in the intersection of both ends of the sweatband and why (attaching picture2)?
4) Silly question, but why do you need to add a bow to a sweatband?

Thank you in advance for your answers!

Warmly,
Emilis

Picture1:
View attachment 229460

Picture2:
View attachment 229461

1. Only Art can tell you exactly what sandpaper he’s using. It’s not rocket science and lots of different brands and grits will work.
2. I’m not sure what you’re referring to. The hat is left on the block to get the felt to conform to the block. It’s also left on the block so the pouncing etc. doesn’t distort the felt and the thickness is constant. Otherwise, it might have just been left on as he had several hats at once in various stages of production and the felt was left on overnight and he was going to continue working on it the next day. Just a guess.
3. Most of my hats have this tape. It’s helps to strengthen the union of the ends. I don’t know if it serves any other function, but it might be useful in keeping the edges aligned as they are sewn together.
4. This is a purely cosmetic feature that we’re just used to seeing. At one time hats had a functional lace system that allows the sweatband to be cinched up and tied at the preferred tension. The function isn’t there anymore, but the we tend to still like the little flourish.

I’m NOT a hatter. I really can’t answer your question ls with any degree of expertise or firsthand knowledge, so take my answers with a grain of salt.

 

[Rmccamey]

++

I may not have said it either, but there a number of members who have really helped me learn a lot about hats, and style, and self esteem. Thank you all.

Not a question but more of an observation.
I'd just like to say Thank You to all of the members here.
I've learned a tremendous amount from reading through the posts and asking stupid questions and making mostly erroneous observations!
This site is a tremendous resource, I'm glad I stumbled upon it looking for a fedora for sale.

 

[belfastboy]

1. Only Art can tell you exactly what sandpaper he’s using. It’s not rocket science and lots of different brands and grits will work.
2. I’m not sure what you’re referring to. The hat is left on the block to get the felt to conform to the block. It’s also left on the block so the pouncing etc. doesn’t distort the felt and the thickness is constant. Otherwise, it might have just been left on as he had several hats at once in various stages of production and the felt was left on overnight and he was going to continue working on it the next day. Just a guess.
3. Most of my hats have this tape. It’s helps to strengthen the union of the ends. I don’t know if it serves any other function, but it might be useful in keeping the edges aligned as they are sewn together.
4. This is a purely cosmetic feature that we’re just used to seeing. At one time hats had a functional lace system that allows the sweatband to be cinched up and tied at the preferred tension. The function isn’t there anymore, but the we tend to still like the little flourish.

I’m NOT a hatter. I really can’t answer your question ls with any degree of expertise or firsthand knowledge, so take my answers with a grain of salt.

4. I am wearing my 1940's Mossant hommie today and it has the laced adjustment feature. I just inspected it and it seems the little bow is independent from the laced adjustment ribbon. As well the bow is sewn down so it cannot be used as an adjuster without dismantling the stitches holding it in place. I never bothered looking at it closely til now. Interesting to know if anyone has an actual functioning adjustment lacing on a sweat band??

 

[The Shoe]

Not a question but more of an observation.
I'd just like to say Thank You to all of the members here.
I've learned a tremendous amount from reading through the posts and asking stupid questions and making mostly erroneous observations!
This site is a tremendous resource, I'm glad I stumbled upon it looking for a fedora for sale.

And not a negative word from anyone, ever. Quite different from a couple of Facebook groups I’m in.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

4. I am wearing my 1940's Mossant hommie today and it has the laced adjustment feature. I just inspected it and it seems the little bow is independent from the laced adjustment ribbon. As well the bow is sewn down so it cannot be used as an adjuster without dismantling the stitches holding it in place. I never bothered looking at it closely til now. Interesting to know if anyone has an actual functioning adjustment lacing on a sweat band??

I have a couple hats with “lacing” for a bit on either side of the sweatband junction, but the lacing is cosmetic only. This aesthetic feature seems to have come around a few times over the years.

 

[ChicagoWayVito]

Hello everyone,

Was again watching how Art Fawcett was making the fedora, and I have a few questions:

1) What kind of sand paper is he using to sand the felt (attaching picture1)?
2) Why after the sanding process he again leaves the hat to stay overnight?
3) What is that white tape that he puts in the intersection of both ends of the sweatband and why (attaching picture2)?
4) Silly question, but why do you need to add a bow to a sweatband?

Thank you in advance for your answers!

#1: You can use from grits 400 up to 1200; anything lower than 400 is too aggressive in my opinion. Also, not all fur felt will need to go up to 1200 grit. Also, you don't need to do the full progression. I can make a case for stopping the pouncing process after any of the grits, it really depends on the "hand" that you are going for. Rabbit fur doesn't need to pounce beyond 800/1000 grits as I have not seen a noticeable difference in taking it beyond that. Beaver on the other hand gets to an amazing hand at 1200 grit. I personally use wet/dry combination sand paper; but try a bunch out and see what you like and play around with the different finishes.

#2: I like to let the felt "rest"; I can't say there is a reason to do this other than my preference. When I first was learning I knocked out completed hats in a single day...BUT they were rushed. The last thing you want to do is rush the process, you will make mistakes because of rushing.

#3: It is paper tape, you find it as gummed paper tape on eBay if I remember correctly. It doesn't stick until you moisten the gum on it. I started doing this after spending 2 days with Art. It help keeps things together. The scenario here is you are going to "bell" the sweat and that means you are going to cut the reed about a 1/2 inch larger than the actual length of the sweat band. (Search for belling) Then you are going to connect the ends with a ferrule and force this longer piece inside the reeding tape and it will want to not comply because it doesn't have the room, so the bottom of the sweatband bells outwards. To hold that in place you hand sew with upholstery thread around the connection at the reeding tape to hold it all together. Now apply the gummed paper tape to help align the rest of the leather sweatband. You are now ready to sew up the sweatband with a zigzag stitch. Congratulations, you are ready to sew in the sweatband bow and the sew it into a hat.

#4: I don't know but I do it because it seems traditional; helps to identify where the back of the hat is. I taught myself how to tie these little bows by taking a part some modern bows that you can buy online.

More on: "Drumming", "belling", "ballooning", "cushioning" or "flaring" .
https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/flattening-brim-stitching-sweatband.86071/#post-2084575 ; read that post the the one that is 2 or 3 posts later and has an image. Pretty descriptive.

 

[CowBrooklyn]

New here so forgive me if this is the wrong place. I’ve been searching for some info on making/sewing hat liners and I’m coming up blank. Was just wondering if anyone has an resources they could point me towards. If all else fails I’ll be doing some reverse engineering of one.

 

[belfastboy]

New here so forgive me if this is the wrong place. I’ve been searching for some info on making/sewing hat liners and I’m coming up blank. Was just wondering if anyone has an resources they could point me towards. If all else fails I’ll be doing some reverse engineering of one.

I asked my wife nicely to make a few liners for me. She was puzzled at first but when I gave her the go ahead to deconstruct one she quickly had the answer. They are cut somewhat on the bias and much like 'swirling' the ribbon work the bottom of the liner needs to arc. Also they need to be sized to match the hat. Wealso learned they material has to be at least a bit thick. The first ones were too light weight and difficult to place properly in position.

 

[CowBrooklyn]

I asked my wife nicely to make a few liners for me. She was puzzled at first but when I gave her the go ahead to deconstruct one she quickly had the answer. They are cut somewhat on the bias and much like 'swirling' the ribbon work the bottom of the liner needs to arc. Also they need to be sized to match the hat. Wealso learned they material has to be at least a bit thick. The first ones were too light weight and difficult to place properly in position.

Thanks belfastboy I guess I’ll be deconstructing one too so I can get a better idea of what needs to be done. I was planning on using some wedding satin.

 

[mayserwegener]

4. I am wearing my 1940's Mossant hommie today and it has the laced adjustment feature. I just inspected it and it seems the little bow is independent from the laced adjustment ribbon. As well the bow is sewn down so it cannot be used as an adjuster without dismantling the stitches holding it in place. I never bothered looking at it closely til now. Interesting to know if anyone has an actual functioning adjustment lacing on a sweat band??

Do you have a photo?

 

[belfastboy]

Thanks belfastboy I guess I’ll be deconstructing one too so I can get a better idea of what needs to be done. I was planning on using some wedding satin.

I think any satin with a bit of substance to it would work well. The material I used was too thin, whispy and much too hard to work with.

 

[belfastboy]

Do you have a photo?

I bought the hat in a vintage shop in Durango CO. It was disgusting with so many layers of shop grime I could not discern the colour. It had a distinct green tinge to it on purchase. I was surprised when the naptha bath revealed a nice charcoal grey. Unfortunately when I washed the almost equally dirty liner it stretched badly.

 

[mayserwegener]

I bought the hat in a vintage shop in Durango CO. It was disgusting with so many layers of shop grime I could not discern the colour. It had a distinct green tinge to it on purchase. I was surprised when the naptha bath revealed a nice charcoal grey. Unfortunately when I washed the almost equally dirty liner it stretched badly. View attachment 230509 View attachment 230510 View attachment 230511 View attachment 230512

Thanks! I am not sure I have encounter any of that type that could actually function. The type that goes around the entire circumference of the sweatband can be adjusted. I have a good number of pre WWII German and Austrian Hats with this type but most haven't been adjusted. Here is Nagy Hut Wien that might have actually been adjusted. Also a fantastic hat!

 

[belfastboy]

Thanks! I am not sure I have encounter any of that type that could actually function. The type that goes around the entire circumference of the sweatband can be adjusted. I have a good number of pre WWII German and Austrian Hats with this type but most haven't been adjusted. Here is Nagy Hut Wien that might have actually been adjusted. Also a fantastic hat!

This hat is a definite Wow!

 

[mayserwegener]

This hat is a definite Wow!

Thanks!