Ask a Question, Get An Answer About Outerwear

[newtojackets]

Could be Made in USA but for the EU market. Italian 48 is US 38. But I agree what Viking said above. Many brands change their fitting through out the years. So if just following the tag size on vintage stuff can be misleading, unless you know exactly when it was made and know what sizing they were then. Very confusing. But mostly just one up or one down.

I remember your Schott Perfecto. Don't over think it. It's perfect.

yep, exactly why I was asking if it is a European size?

Definitely not doing anything with my current shot, was just eyeing up another one, I think I've got the schott bug...

 

[Viking752]

, I think I've got the schott bug...

That’s why I have 3…..

 

[Observe]

HPA might be the only western stockist of this kind of clothing that I actually like, lol.

I spoke with Charles at HPA by email and he was prompt and extremely helpful. Not that I haven't had that experience with other retailers, but I think I get where you're coming from. The feeling I get from the very website itself is a bit of a refreshing change from many of the "cool" stores from which you buy these things. Feels a bit more organic or natural or something. Maybe it's just the Web 1.0-style layout triggering my nostalgia lol.

You might also want to check the Double Helix classic 1930s. The jackets are made in Japan yet suited for the western physique. Body length will probably work for you as they're longer than the ELMC. I'm not sure about the sleeve lenght though.

View attachment 476875


View attachment 476874

Another viable option.

 

[Aloysius]

Has schott ever been known to use European sizing?

I’ve come across a schott (made in usa, not cheaper European variant) and it’s tagged as a size 48 but has a 22inch pIt, which sounds more like a 38 to me (albeit slightly big for a 38)

Schott has made special runs of jackets for European stockists, yes. It’s not just the crappy Schott Europe “LC Schott” jackets.

 

[newtojackets]

Schott has made special runs of jackets for European stockists, yes. It’s not just the crappy Schott Europe “LC Schott” jackets.

I read this, but did these use European sizing?

 

[Aloysius]

I read this, but did these use European sizing?

They’ll use whatever labels the market requests. In Europe it would be a straightforward case of +10.

With Schott Japan it’s full on reverse vanity sizing; 42 labeled Schott Japan jackets, while made in the Schott factory, barely measure out to 40 inches. When I was at the factory sale, I was hanging out with a guy who’s a 34. He was having trouble finding a jacket his size so I showed him how to identify a Schott Japan jacket. He soon grabbed a 38 that fit him, a bit snugly at that.

 

[navetsea]

so people in japan want to appear big in jacket size? like real men only wear size 42 hahaha

 

[newtojackets]

They’ll use whatever labels the market requests. In Europe it would be a straightforward case of +10.

With Schott Japan it’s full on reverse vanity sizing; 42 labeled Schott Japan jackets, while made in the Schott factory, barely measure out to 40 inches. When I was at the factory sale, I was hanging out with a guy who’s a 34. He was having trouble finding a jacket his size so I showed him how to identify a Schott Japan jacket. He soon grabbed a 38 that fit him, a bit snugly at that.

Exactly what I wanted to check, thanks!

 

[Aloysius]

so people in japan want to appear big in jacket size? like real men only wear size 42 hahaha

Haha, well something like that is the reason for vanity trouser sizing in the West (so people can feel slimmer) but I think the case of these Japanese sizes is slightly different.

I think they see American sizes like 36, 38, 40, 42 as meaning small, medium, large, extra-large. They don't realize that these specific numbers were chosen because they correspond to the wearer's chest size in inches. So the fact that 42 is not even 21" pit-to-pit is irrelevant.

I think they assume it is like the European shoe size system, which is arbitrarily in the 40s, unlike the inch-based Anglo-American one or the cm-based Japanese one.

So when Schott Japan sells a jacket as 42, they're calling it an "extra large" (for a Japanese person). The problem is, westerners will see these numbers and shove themselves into jackets that can't even fit over their bodies, lol, and then insist it must fit because of the number.

 

[Observe]

I've seen posts here that the Schott 689h's horsehide is "felt backed". Is this meant to make the hide seem thicker than it is, or some other attempt at deception? I was considering this jacket until I saw this.

 

[Aloysius]

I've seen posts here that the Schott 689h's horsehide is "felt backed". Is this meant to make the hide seem thicker than it is, or some other attempt at deception? I was considering this jacket until I saw this.

Schott for a time put a backing on their horsehide (this was several years ago now). Many people actually prefer the feel of it.

In any case, they no longer do this.

 

[newtojackets]

How come most custom makers dont charge different prices for different sizes. I know cheaper ones like 5* do, but most dont.

I would think that when working with expensive leathers e.g. shinki, badalassi the leather makes up a decent portion of the cost?

 

[Jasonissm]

How come most custom makers dont charge different prices for different sizes. I know cheaper ones like 5* do, but most dont.

I would think that when working with expensive leathers e.g. shinki, badalassi the leather makes up a decent portion of the cost?

Majority of costs is the labour. This is why it's uncommon practice pretty much in any clothing/footwear/etc. business. Like you will still spend the same amount of time to sew up a size 36 jacket to the same standard as a size 44 jacket, and even sometimes it is more difficult due to smaller size requiring greater precision in some areas.

At the level they purchase, the material costs aren't too much of a difference, and also the fact that you can only get so many jackets out of a hide anyways so if you're using large panels, clicking around loose grain, etc.,, you may still use the same amount of hide as a larger jacket or larger pair of boots.

There are some makers that charge more, specifically Japanese sellers but mostly quite uncommon. Only when you get to the bigger sizes like 50+ which need large hides to be clicked correctly.

 

[newtojackets]

Majority of costs is the labour. This is why it's uncommon practice pretty much in any clothing/footwear/etc. business. Like you will still spend the same amount of time to sew up a size 36 jacket to the same standard as a size 44 jacket, and even sometimes it is more difficult due to smaller size requiring greater precision in some areas.

At the level they purchase, the material costs aren't too much of a difference, and also the fact that you can only get so many jackets out of a hide anyways so if you're using large panels, clicking around loose grain, etc.,, you may still use the same amount of hide as a larger jacket or larger pair of boots.

There are some makers that charge more, specifically Japanese sellers but mostly quite uncommon. Only when you get to the bigger sizes like 50+ which need large hides to be clicked correctly.

Makes sense! Which Japanese makes charge differing prices for different sizes?

 

[Jasonissm]

Makes sense! Which Japanese makes charge differing prices for different sizes?

Don't recall all of them but Mushmans do it on their jacket (made by Electric Leather Studio)

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Size 42 up charge +19,800 yen (21,780 yen)

About $150 upcharge, which is pretty high, but maybe they need a whole new hide for this size? Not too sure. Seen anywhere ranging from $50-250 upcharge on some jackets. Usually cutoff for upcharge is 42 or 44

 

[Aloysius]

It’s not unreasonable. Larger jackets require a lot more leather. With bespoke tailoring the amount of cloth affects the price too.

 

[Blackadder]

Haha, well something like that is the reason for vanity trouser sizing in the West (so people can feel slimmer) but I think the case of these Japanese sizes is slightly different.

I think they see American sizes like 36, 38, 40, 42 as meaning small, medium, large, extra-large. They don't realize that these specific numbers were chosen because they correspond to the wearer's chest size in inches. So the fact that 42 is not even 21" pit-to-pit is irrelevant.

I think they assume it is like the European shoe size system, which is arbitrarily in the 40s, unlike the inch-based Anglo-American one or the cm-based Japanese one.

So when Schott Japan sells a jacket as 42, they're calling it an "extra large" (for a Japanese person). The problem is, westerners will see these numbers and shove themselves into jackets that can't even fit over their bodies, lol, and then insist it must fit because of the number.

I am pretty sure they know what it means since their jeans are true to waist size in inches. Whether they care is a different matter. The brands we talk about here are using the English system/numbers probably because these companies deal in traditional Western style clothing. Some of them make faithful repros down to the size tag. Most local brands in Japan on the other hand use 1, 2, 3, 4 or s, m, l.
The Japanese went from their own system (adapted from the Chinese) to the metric system. They have never used the English system per se. So knowing what it means does not necessarily mean they care to adopt it other than for show.

 

[Aloysius]

I am sure they know what it means since their jeans are true to waist size in inches. Whether they care is a different matter. The brands we talk about here are using the English system/numbers probably because these companies deal in traditional Western style clothing. Some of them make faithful repros down to the size tag. Most local brands in Japan on the other hand use 1, 2, 3, 4 or s, m, l.
The Japanese went from their own system (adapted from the Chinese) to the metric system. They have never used the English system per se. So knowing what it means does not necessarily mean they care to adopt it other than for show.

We aren’t disagreeing. I think the 40, 42 etc names instead of alpha sizing are used to provide a more authentic Amekaji look.

And of course there are companies like Buzz Rickson’s that use them in a true-to-original pattern way–but even that, I imagine, is because BR customers want that sizing.

 

[newtojackets]

Anyone here have experience with 'branded garments'? Have read a few of the threads here but there aren't too many. What is the quality like, comparable to schott?

 

[newtojackets]

anyone have any examples of a flattering A2. I've seen many A2s, but I swear it is one of the most unflattering silhouettes you can buy, so I want to see if it is possible to have it look slim / fitted