Ask a Question, Get An Answer About Outerwear

[photo2u]

I like the JH1 look but not the RMC prices. Is there anywhere I can get the same or similar look? View attachment 478821

five star.

 

[Jasonissm]

Thank you for the detailed response. I don’t want to pay the extreme surcharge either.
Same with Langlitz, I would just settle on cowhide.
Surcharge; when they charge that much extra for one particular leather, it makes me question the value of their regular leather options, basically are they getting them for nothing, because they should be removing the cost of the original which leads me to believe they should not have such expensive surcharges for any leather. (I hope that came out understandable)
The jump is crazy, the price for shinki seems to be about what it cost a manufacturer to make a Shinki jacket, but it should be less because they are not using the base Liberty hide (just a guess based on Goodwear & Fields, we will leave Himel out of this equation )
Then look at Victory hide £900 I can’t find any leather online that cost that much given the info on the average SQ Footage it takes to make a jacket.

View attachment 478860

Yes the Brucaito Horsehide, it’s my favorite hide Thedi offers, I think you are right on point with Maryam Tannery because Viberg has a Bruciato HorseButt service boot that’s been available for a while and it looks just like Thedi’s Bruciato minus the weathering treatment he uses. View attachment 478867 View attachment 478868
There is a jacket maker in China on Taobao (Guofu)that makes jackets from Maryam, 1.5mm thick and looks every bit, he stands out because his prices are way more expensive than anything else besides imported products, $1,800 for full bespoke sizing. I was and am tempted to use him and his turn around time was like 2 weeks. The work looks really good, he makes a Mullholland clone and a LeatherTogs D pocket. What worries me is the language barrier and I know there is more to making a jacket than what I can see, like sleeve inset and rotation, the way the panel’s connect, how the sleeves are made to form a curved tunnel.
The Maryam he uses doesn’t have much grain almost glass smooth, like Horsebutt, i know that’s just how he orders it though.
I wonder what Maryam does to produce the grainy kind.

This Guofo Mulholland clone made of CF Stead Waxed Kudu is really cool. Don't see Kudu being used on jackets often.

 

[newtojackets]

Stiff jackets aren't necessarily more duable right? When I wear a stiff jacket I feel like it is more durable, but this probably doesn't have any logical basis right (when comparing leather from the same animal)? E.g. is a stiff horsehide jacket e.g. CXL more durable than a soft one e.g. Shinki?

 

[handymike]

I think Tanning has to do with stiffness. The same hide can be treated many different ways. CXL is stiff because of the wax content.

 

[newtojackets]

I think Tanning has to do with stiffness. The same hide can be treated many different ways. CXL is stiff because of the wax content.

But does that make chromexcel more duable? Do tanning processes that soften leather also weaken it?

 

[TartuWolf]

@newtojackets What do you mean by durable? Scratch resistant? Tensile strength (tear resistance)? Water resistance? I think the main things that make the leather more tough in general are thickness, density (for example shoulder of the hide, full grain), perhaps animal (bison?).

Rose Anvil does some nice "toughness" tests quite often when he reviews boots. Awesome channel in general.

Personally I would say Yes, IN GENERAL, stiffer leather is tougher (assuming that it is not stiff because of a heavy pigment coat, not stiff because it is dried out and vulnerable to cracking/splitting). In most cases stiffer means that the fibers are interwoven more tightly. But it can also mean a high wax content, which, to me, also makes the leather tougher in some ways.

On the other hand, goat, one of the softest and most pliable leathers, is known to be one of the most durable / tough ones. So it's a tricky thing.

 

[handymike]

Goat and kangaroo are both very durable hides, but often they aren’t tanned to be stiff.
I think that thickness plays a part in durability, but there are examples of thick and soft leathers as well.

There are ancient examples of Veg-tanned leathers, and many chrome-tanned jackets have survived for a century. Some are thick/ some thinner. CXL topcoat will scratch easily while others won’t. The hides underneath will last your lifetime if cared for. Most issues seem to come from storage (either too damp or to hot and dry).

 

[newtojackets]

@newtojackets What do you mean by durable? Scratch resistant? Tensile strength (tear resistance)? Water resistance? I think the main things that make the leather more tough in general are thickness, density (for example shoulder of the hide, full grain), perhaps animal (bison?).

Rose Anvil does some nice "toughness" tests quite often when he reviews boots. Awesome channel in general.

Personally I would say Yes, IN GENERAL, stiffer leather is tougher (assuming that it is not stiff because of a heavy pigment coat, not stiff because it is dried out and vulnerable to cracking/splitting). In most cases stiffer means that the fibers are interwoven more tightly. But it can also mean a high wax content, which, to me, also makes the leather tougher in some ways.

On the other hand, goat, one of the softest and most pliable leathers, is known to be one of the most durable / tough ones. So it's a tricky thing.

I was mainly referring to duability as tear resistance

 

[newtojackets]

Goat and kangaroo are both very durable hides, but often they aren’t tanned to be stiff.
I think that thickness plays a part in durability, but there are examples of thick and soft leathers as well.

There are ancient examples of Veg-tanned leathers, and many chrome-tanned jackets have survived for a century. Some are thick/ some thinner. CXL topcoat will scratch easily while others won’t. The hides underneath will last your lifetime if cared for. Most issues seem to come from storage (either too damp or to hot and dry).

But goat and kangaroo are naturally less stiff from my understanding? This is why I was trying to compare horse vs horse. The reason I ask is you do ocassionaly see vintage jackets with rips / tears

 

[Observe]

I was mainly referring to duability as tear resistance

I don't think there is necessarily any correlation between tensile strength and stiffness of leather.

 

[handymike]

But goat and kangaroo are naturally less stiff from my understanding? This is why I was trying to compare horse vs horse. The reason I ask is you do ocassionaly see vintage jackets with rips / tears

Yes, there are examples, but I think most damage happens to dried out hides (flaking top-coat, cracking, tears at stress points, and rot) or collars subjected to sweat. More often in older jackets rotted stitching is the problem (100% cotton thread) not the hide. Abrasions and cuts seem to be the other major damage on the leather.

 

[Canuck Panda]

I found this cool Vanson for sale : https://www.vinted.fr/men/clothes/c...ets/945425444-blouson-en-cuir-vanson-leathers
The thing I'm struggling with is how can it have such measurements for a size 38?
~42cm shoulders - ???
~47-48cm pit to pit - ???
~43cm waist - ???
~61cm arm length - OK
I'll ask to measure again with it being as flat as possible and give me the back length.
But all the measurements seem so small! More like a 34 than a 38.
Is it because it's a cafe race (very trim/slim) and has a full action back?

Vanson model A
https://www.vansonleathers.com/trad...rial_color-black_competition_weight/9-size-34
chest ease is 4.5”, so the jacket circumference will measure 42.5” for the size 38.
in theory the bottom sweep would measure 39” around, and total sleeve length (like dress shirt) would be around 33”, just my guess.

 

[Canuck Panda]

Stiff jackets aren't necessarily more duable right? When I wear a stiff jacket I feel like it is more durable, but this probably doesn't have any logical basis right (when comparing leather from the same animal)? E.g. is a stiff horsehide jacket e.g. CXL more durable than a soft one e.g. Shinki?

Don’t worry about it too much mate. Most jackets you see here will outlast you.
chrome tan and synthetic tan leather don’t change molecular properties until 80 something degrees Celsius plus, veg tan is a bit lower, but what are the chances you’d heat your jacket up anywhere near those temps. Almost never in everyday life. You’re good.

 

[TartuWolf]

@Canuck Panda
Let me see if I understand correctly.
42 measures 46.5 in the chest, "chest ease" being 4.5inch.
Meaning that a 38 would be 42.5.
42.5 / 2 = 21.25" chest = ~54.5cm
So for a size 38 the chest should be 54,5cm / 21.25" across?
Does "chest ease" consider the back gussets in any way?
The seller states 47-48cm pit to pit, which is way smaller than 54,5cm

 

[Aloysius]

I wouldn’t put much stock in measurements that don’t come from this forum or leather factories. Most, even expensive stores, do it wrong.

 

[Canuck Panda]

@Canuck Panda
Let me see if I understand correctly.
42 measures 46.5 in the chest, "chest ease" being 4.5inch.
Meaning that a 38 would be 42.5.
42.5 / 2 = 21.25" chest = ~54.5cm
So for a size 38 the chest should be 54,5cm / 21.25" across?
Does "chest ease" consider the back gussets in any way?
The seller states 47-48cm pit to pit, which is way smaller than 54,5cm

Correct. I recently got a model B, and thats been my exact experience.
Chest ease do not include the gussets.
So if the seller would measure each panel at a time (only way to get the most accurate numbers because these jackets are quite 3 dimensional than 2d flat), and add up all the panel widths, you’d get 42.5” for that size 38 model A jacket.
Model A looks like a slimmer version than the B but the full action back will be more than sufficient. You don’t need to worry about mobility with Vanson jackets, just watch out for sleeve length, they tend to be +0.5” to +1” longer compared to other makers. But the way they do the sleeves it’s easy to get adjusted too.

 

[Canuck Panda]

"Arctic Issue" B3 jackets:
Natural sheepskin - This is just rough out suede with fur on the other side right? Does the outside get darker with sunlight like the raw cow/horsehides? Thanks.

 

[Zoo]

I tried the vinegar/water suggestion on the lining in my Californian jacket without any change. Today I ran it through the washer on the hand wash cycle, cold water, with some woolite. The lining doesn't really look any cleaner after this either, oh well. Still, it should be cleaner than when it went in. The leather looks to have come through all right. I don't see any loss of topcoat, and the zipper has not puckered yet. I'm letting it air dry by hanging, no dryer.

Here's hoping I haven't reconstituted something with an ungodly smell.

 

[handymike]

Make sure you use a wide hanger if drying that way! or better yet, pool noodles- don't want shoulder puckers.
I'd dry it on a towel on the floor.

 

[Zoo]

Make sure you use a wide hanger if drying that way! or better yet, pool noodles- don't want shoulder puckers.
I'd dry it on a towel on the floor.

Thanks! I think I will move it to the floor.