Ascots

[eightbore]

Assuming that there are period photos of "real" people (not actors wearing a costume while performing or fashion designers trying to be being outrageous) wearing certain articles or combinations of them, I think it's a bit silly to claim that wearing such a thing is NOT "period correct". Again, to assert this is adhering to a purely academic interpretation of what reality should have been rather than to what reality actually was. Of course we are all free now, just as then, to adhere to certain rules of fashion (and to varying degrees) but I think it's incorrect to refer to something as "not period correct" when it so clearly happened. Perhaps it may be better to refer to such things as "improper according to the rules of the period" with the acknowledgement that people then (as now) broke those rules. And frankly, thank God for those rule-breakers as that's what individuality, whimsy, and ultimately fashion are all about right????? Honestly, to tell a fashionable man that he can't wear an ascot with his bush jacket is like telling a Jazz musician that he cannot play outside the chord progression during a solo.

JMHO,

eightbore

 

[luvthatlulu]

Assuming that there are period photos of "real" people (not actors wearing a costume while performing or fashion designers trying to be being outrageous) wearing certain articles or combinations of them, I think it's a bit silly to claim that wearing such a thing is NOT "period correct". Again, to assert this is adhering to a purely academic interpretation of what reality should have been rather than to what reality actually was. Of course we are all free now, just as then, to adhere to certain rules of fashion (and to varying degrees) but I think it's incorrect to refer to something as "not period correct" when it so clearly happened. Perhaps it may be better to refer to such things as "improper according to the rules of the period" with the acknowledgement that people then (as now) broke those rules. And frankly, thank God for those rule-breakers as that's what individuality, whimsy, and ultimately fashion are all about right????? Honestly, to tell a is like telling a Jazz musician that he cannot play outside the chord progression during a solo.

JMHO,

eightbore

I don't believe I've said anywhere in this thread that a "fashonable [sic] man... can't wear an ascot with his bush jacket". I've said, and offered several reasons why I believe, that he should not wear an ascot with his bush jacket. I apologize sincerely for presenting an opposing viewpoint in a discussion. But, am I, as a member of this Lounge as well, not permitted to state an opinion without being ganged-up on or have my words parsed ad nauseam? If so, I'm clearly associated with the wrong people.

 

[eightbore]

I don't think anyone is ganging up on you and I'm sorry if you feel that way. Still, when you ask...

"Do you want to be PC (period correct), or follow the more modern trend to use both interchangeably?"

...implying that it is not PC to wear an ascot and bush jacket, then you have to believe that people are going to come out of the woodwork citing period examples of said combination. Clearly, you are free to state anything you want on an open forum, but people are similarly free to disagree with your statements or their foundation, no? I hope there's nothing mean spirited in any of my posts (if there is, I apologize) and I don't think anyone here is trying to be mean spirited over what is really a pretty trivial matter.

Best Regards,

eightbore

P.S. Pardon all of the typos....my hands were occupied tying an ascot under my bush jacket.

 

[luvthatlulu]

I don't think anyone is ganging up on you and I'm sorry if you feel that way.

Thank you, eightbore. You don't...but I do, and I am deeply offended by the mean-spirited nature of it. I promise I will never offer an opinion or advice in the Lounge again. Good day.

 

[luvthatlulu]

P.S. Pardon all of the typos....my hands were occupied tying an ascot under my bush jacket.

Perhaps I should cite that as another reason why I don't recommend it.

 

[vonwotan]

I agree that the ascot works quite well in HJ's photograph. I wear ascots quite often as our office is business casual and I can only stand to "dress down" by wearing an odd jacket and trousers in place of my suit. To be extra casual I do forgo the tie but can't pass on a bit of silk at my neck and in my jacket pocket...

My suggestion earlier of the neckerchief in place of an ascot under bush jackets was with work in heat in mind. I would worry about ruining my good ascots with sweat stains.

Kudos to Hemingway :eusa_clap -- I've done it as well. I love the ascot, and I love wearing them. We make them, and do a surprisingly healthy business with them. To me, it is one of the most underappreciated accessories in wardrobe. I think it's a smart look, adding formality while lending itself to a more relaxed application. Plus they are a lot of fun to wear!

I think I have a picture, if I can dig it out.

Go for it.

 

[BellyTank]

Would an ascot go good with safari khakis and a bush jacket?
If anyone has pictures please share them with me.

DnSchlng.

Sorry so late-
If by "Ascot", you mean a cravat style neck-scarf arrangement(common vernacular, rather than a dictionary regurgitation),
as Vonwotan mentioned- and that by "go good", you mean it would be a suitable, practical and stylish choice, and I think you do,
then a definite YES would be my answer.
It looks great and was a common sight back in the day.

It's a classic look and was widely used in the Tropics and warmer climes, in the so-called Golden Era. It was common practice for NCOs and Officers in the British forces to wear the "cravat"(or a silk square, as a cravat) whilst on duty in India, the Phillipines, etc. and often seen in North an sub-Saharian Africa. It wasn't just the British Military either- tand not just in the heat-
the Germans in WW2 could often be seen sporting a similar look with a silk square. Luftwaffe pilots of WW2(British too, of course) often wore a polka-dot silk scarf as a "cravat".
Widely seen in the movies too, as it was a common enough practise in reality.

Of course definitely "Period Correct", if you were after a vintage look.


Sorry, I forgot to quote the source of the photo I posted-

...it's the cover image from the excellent and well respected reference book:
"Khaki Drill and Jungle Green", Richard Ingram,Martin Brayley.
This book displays uniform items and variations commonly seen in use by HM Forces in the Tropics,
India and N.Africa during the pre-war period and WW2.

YES-
It's a good look.


B
T

 

[BellyTank]

Thanks for correcting me. As I said, "I don't think you would ever see them being worn under the BDUs in any situation", but that doesn't mean no one ever did/will. I don't think you will ever see a top hat being worn by a helicopter pilot in combat either, but thanks to Hollywood and Mickey Rooney you can produce a photo proving me wrong there, too (see The Bridges at Toko-Ri). What's your point?

Suppose I asked, "Should I wear tennis shoes with a tuxedo?" I believe most Loungers would react in horror and say no. But Google Ralph Lauren enough and there, lo and behold, is a photo of Mr. Lauren doing so. Does that make it right, or acceptable, by default?

And now that you've finished, please read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascot_tie

and tell me where it says an ascot should or can be worn with one's BDUs/bush jacket. There is a big difference between "should wear" and "can wear" and that's all I'm trying to address. Everything else is quibbling over details.

I was not addressing you personally, or any ranting which may or may not have occurred. I wasn't trying to correct you either but now that you mention it you are quite wrong. I didn't even know this thread was about you at all. You seem to have hijacked this thread.

The point of my post was to illustrate a common useage of what I thought the first post was talking about, although, technically, the subject is wearing a "Bush Shirt", not a "Bush Jacket".

And no, I don't like reading Wikipedia at all.

An Ascot goes Great with a Bush Jacket.

As for quibbling over details- please continue.


B
T

 

[eightbore]

As for quibbling over details- please continue.

Only if you will continue with us...otherwise there's just no fun in it!

 

[Feraud]

Only if you will continue with us...otherwise there's just no fun in it!

Agreed.
Also, participation in the discussion of ideas can have the inadvertent effect of broadening minds beyond the "that is wrong because ____ " attitude.

None of what we wear is mandatory in society and therefore governed by very few rules.

If we take the discussion to the level of "period acceptable" then photographic evidence says an ascot can be worn w/a bush jacket.
Even if something was done incorrectly in the past the fact that is was done (however badly) should be enough to satisy the purist nay-sayers who stick to a version of convention with religious fervor.

 

[Mid-fogey]

Firstly...

From that day forward you would have to look very hard to find any picture of me with that ascot on. And if I had ever tried to wear one at a real (my emphasis this time) operational squadron with my flightsuit, I would have deserved the ridicule (and butt-whipping) I would have gotten.

Wear your ascot with your bush jacket if you like. Don't say I didn't warn you.



--Not the Lulu

...This ascot thing has everyone up tight.

Secondly, real fighter pilots don't seem to like scarfs.

Finally, Mr. Tweed needed a bust in the snot locker.

 

[scotrace]

Finally, Mr. Tweed needed a bust in the snot locker.

lol lol lol lol

A cravat with safari type gear is something we have seen many times in vintage and newer photos.

 

[Spitfire]

"Secondly, real fighter pilots don't seem to like scarfs."

Except Douglas Bader and John Godfrey among others...

 

[Smithy]

"Secondly, real fighter pilots don't seem to like scarfs."

Except Douglas Bader and John Godfrey among others...

Spitfire's right. Scarfs were a very popular piece of a fighter pilot's kit. Initially during WWI, scarfs were worn primarily for warmth in unheated, open cockpits and also not infrequently to keep oil out of the mouth. Contrary to popular belief probably the most popular scarf worn by a pilot during WWI was woollen.

During the first year of WWII, RAF pilots found that the constant turning of the neck which was required to scan the skies for enemy aircraft, led to the collar on service shirts severely chaffing the neck. Silk and rayon scarves quickly became an essential piece of flying kit to protect the neck. In fact cravats, women's stockings, or anything of a similar texture was also worn to protect the neck.

There's no doubt that the silk scarf became a sartorial symbol for fighter pilots during WWII and some pilots played up the addition as a sort of badge of belonging, but its usage was born out of an essential function.

 

[Mid-fogey]

Note tense...

"Secondly, real fighter pilots don't seem to like scarfs."

Except Douglas Bader and John Godfrey among others...

..."like" not "liked."

I have the privilege of working daily with the worlds finest fighter pilots. They don't like scarfs.

 

[Smithy]

..."like" not "liked."

I have the privilege of working daily with the worlds finest fighter pilots. They don't like scarfs.

Not much need for the things now. Get in the way of a flightsuit!

 

[Spitfire]

...and they don't even turn their heads anymore Got everything on a computerscreen.
No matter how great todays fighterpilots are, there is not much "golden age" or vintage style over them. Which is what I thought we were talking about here.

But give my very best regards to your pilot friends.

 

[Mid-fogey]

At the risk...

...and they don't even turn their heads anymore Got everything on a computer screen.
No matter how great todays fighter pilots are, there is not much "golden age" or vintage style over them. Which is what I thought we were talking about here.

But give my very best regards to your pilot friends.

...of remaining a bit off topic, modern fighter pilots have to look around quite a bit. The advent of helmet mounted missile sights enhance the reasons for looking around. It's quite true though that vintage style has been replaced by functionality.

On ascots, seems to me that they aren't something that everyone can seem to pull off -- me being someone who definitely can't.

 

[Quigley Brown]

I tell you guys....wear an ascot your next time out on the town. I wore one for the first time last evening at my favorite spot for happy hour. I was astounded by the compliments from women I didn't know. Wearing a button-down shirt and fall sport coat I was told that 'men just don't know how to dress anymore' and 'you really know how to pull that look off.' It was a fun evening.

 

[BellyTank]

What?
No Bush Jacket!

Congrats on the Women.

B
T