Article: Why do People Hate Hipsters

[John in Covina]

This has been an interesting rant. The way I see it is that in most places we may have different ethnic backgrounds, levels of schooling, be in different economic classes and be of different ages. With all of the differences we can usually say that with in each group there are going to be people that are nice and a portion of people that aren't nice maybe even Bad people.

Some of the things that are themes for this particular rant are that the hipsters are:
self centered,
have a lack of respect for others,
considered themselves ethically / morally superior
seemed to have a skewed value system
don't have a realistic picture of the way things are
while they also think they are amongst the smartest people on the planet?

Unfortunate but the truth is that the above list is often what most groups ascribe to those outside their group.

 

[John in Covina]

I grew up in the Adirondacks. ///These are the type of people that you knew would be dead within 48 hours of the ice storm we survived in '98 (some of us didn't have electric for two months and some had their roads blocked for that time too).

There is a difference in knowledge and upbringing. A rural existence tends to instill different learning skills often with a eye to being prepared. Suburban and city folk seem to have a greater reliance on others. (The scary fact is most grocery stores actually only have a few days of food on the shelf and if the re-supply system breaks down the reliance on it shows up as a problem.) City folks usually have a set of street smart skills that don't apply to the rural life style.

The main difference is whether one has taken the time to be prepared.
It makes the difference when something happens.

 

[Tiller]

I grew up in the Adirondacks. Suddenly I think I might have met some of these people, but that describes a lot of "city" tourists up there- particularly the statements about the rednecks. (You have to understand that although we needed the tourists to survive, they weren't "us" but "other." We were the "rednecks" to them, they were the "tourists" to us. They weren't all bad, but one or two bad ones you met a day made you stereotype.)

Yes that's them. Specifically we are talking about the trust fund children, and those annoying "older" individuals who have the whole "Mommy and Daddy are going to take care of me until I'm all grown up when I'm 35" act down pat. I'm sure you've seen the kind, attempting to mix whats trendy with a dash or something either cheap, or outdated in order to make an "ironic" style statement. The word "like" and "man" are used at least four times in every sentence. They tend to talk and awful lot about things being "post modern" . If you try to have a conversation with them, and you disagree with a point that they make about something you've suddenly become one of the conformist, and you just don't get it.

Hearing some people talk, you'd think a conformist was someone who had a job, and didn't let Mom and Dad pay their car issuance every month.

As you said though their are many outsiders who are just good normal people who want to enjoy the Adirondack Park, show their family a good time and simply enjoy themselves. I'd say that those good people are the majority, and those are not the people we are talking about. As far as the others go... well... lol

These are the type of people that you knew would be dead within 48 hours of the ice storm we survived in '98 (some of us didn't have electric for two months and some had their roads blocked for that time too).

Yes I remember the ice storm of 98, as well as the microburst. For some reason one of the things I remember most about that time is reading Sherlock Holmes by the light of a kerosene lamp. lol Which in and of itself was quite enjoyable, and puts a smile on my face looking back.

"What? Your town is so ghetto your Mickey D's closes 9 months of the year?"

If you liked that comment you'll love this. One of the stupidest things I've ever heard a hipster say was...

"I don't discriminate against anyone, unlike most of the stupid rednecks around here!":doh:

Unfortunate but the truth is that the above list is often what most groups ascribe to those outside their group.

That's true in a general sense. The only thing I'd say is that the hipster indie crowd itself seems to be proud of the things on your list John. For them it seems their life is to be dedicated around this indie individualism, that follows a certain mission statement. If said statement isn't followed (seemingly the main idea is annoy the "mainstream" which in practice seems to be "annoy those who aren't like us") then one isn't a true hipster.

Now maybe you would respond "Tiller, maybe you were just tired at the time and let a few people you had to deal with at a former job annoy you." Well sure there's no doubt that has happened lol, but what I find interesting is that other people who have also dealt with hipsters seem to have had a similar experience that I have, and it's to the point where hipsters in general are simply viewed negatively. Fairly or not.

 

[Pompidou]

I consider them the latest torchbearers in the line of countercultures that started with Beatniks, then Hippies, then Punks and now Hipsters. If there was a named group before Beatniks, I don't know about it. Still, it's a long tradition. I think society needs those groups to constantly poke it with different ideas, and generally keep it from getting too complacent. Sadly, if countercultures were albums of a rock band, the Hipsters would probably represent the "Best of" album. They didn't so much do something different from the rest, as take the best parts of all their predecessors. Some people like "Best of" albums, but generally they come at the end of a band's career when material has been exhausted, so I have to wonder what kind of group will take the torch in 2020.

 

[Tomasso]

I consider them.....

Oh, and here I thought you were a hipster.......:eusa_doh:

j/k

 

[John in Covina]

I think there was a term "Bohemian" lifestyle that may have been the precursor.

 

[LizzieMaine]

There was that whole "Smart Set" crowd that infested college campuses in the Twenties, going around with The American Mercury under their arm and trying to seem blase while quoting Mencken and Nathan. But to be honest, that whole culture was nothing but an excuse for getting into the better speakeasies. Amazing how quick they grew up once the Depression set in.

 

[Pompidou]

I imagine the Flapper movement might count as well, though they're not quite the same.

 

[sheeplady]

There is a difference in knowledge and upbringing. A rural existence tends to instill different learning skills often with a eye to being prepared. Suburban and city folk seem to have a greater reliance on others. (The scary fact is most grocery stores actually only have a few days of food on the shelf and if the re-supply system breaks down the reliance on it shows up as a problem.) City folks usually have a set of street smart skills that don't apply to the rural life style.

The main difference is whether one has taken the time to be prepared.
It makes the difference when something happens.

I hope that my comment wasn't taken to describe people from the city- what I was talking more about was "city" people- which is a term that people in many country places use to describe whiny, self-centered, think they are better than others (particularly rural people), who come and tell rural people why they are obviously doing things wrong. They tend to be affluent and unable to picture that anyone does something differently from them because of lack of income. (I imagine that these "city" people treat those in the inner-city the same way). A rural person would say someone "is from the city" if they lived there, but a "city" person is a person who is from the city and is impolite and arrogant. (At least where I come from).

I've known people way out in the country that couldn't survive half a week without a grocery store. I know people who live in the city who could survive a month, it is more about a different attitude and being prepared (which you mention). Having lived in both a rural environment and in the inner city, both do involve different (but amazingly similar) skill sets. Things like being able to think on your feet, talk your way in or out, hold your own in a situation, etc. seem to be important in both environs.

 

[JimWagner]

There was that whole "Smart Set" crowd that infested college campuses in the Twenties, going around with The American Mercury under their arm and trying to seem blase while quoting Mencken and Nathan. But to be honest, that whole culture was nothing but an excuse for getting into the better speakeasies. Amazing how quick they grew up once the Depression set in.

Before them do you think the Lost Generation qualifies or are they in a completely different category since a lot of them were WWI veterans?

 

[LizzieMaine]

I think the Smart Setters were trying to *be* The Lost Generation, but they couldn't risk losing access to Mummy and Daddy's money. The Lost Generationers themselves were a different kind of thing, I think -- most of them were disillusioned because they'd actually seen unspeakable horrors up close. The Smart Setters were only play-acting at disillusionment because they thought it would help them get lucky.

 

[JohnnyLoco]

If you look at the history of the Twentieth Century you will find many examples of these little "countercultures" inevitably founded upon pop/commercial art movements and a fashion trends (as Frank Zappa observed, the two are usually inextricable). These so-called "artistic movements," from the Greenwich Village writers, poets, and activists around WWI, to the Lost Generation immediately following WWI, the Beatniks, Hippies, Punks, and other varieties culminating in the Hipster only gained mass appeal and adoption in popular consciousness because of the mass media marketing system, including periodicals, radio, television, and film, the system which makes "pop culture" possible.

All of the proponents of these movements fought the existence of "homogeneous culture" of the literate age, focused on conventionality, formal dress, and democratic/capitalistic values. The members of this forum (at least most of them I would suspect) wish to extol the class and style of the supposed timelessness and classiness of pre-pop cultural values, style, and etiquette, the origins of which being found in the 18th and 19th centuries (just look at the origins of suits and ties and fedoras, etc.).

The problem with the Hipster relates to the fact that he is nauseatingly nostalgic of transient trends of the pop-cultural era (20th Century) and has no definitive art movement to hang his hat on, due to the recent demise of the artistic industries of the mass media marketing system (literature, music/radio industry, television, film), and is relatively ignorant of any sort of ideology (because he doesn't really read that much). The hipster has to rely on the only thing left from these aforementioned industries: the desire to be trendy and stylish as disassociated from any definitive artistic or ideological movement, with the exception of reality TV (if that counts) and horrible remakes of TV shows and great or at least original films. Hence the hipster eclectic, inane, and hoboish sense of style based on previous and outdated trends all thrown together on his unkempt, scraggly, and malnourished frame. The hipster has reached the nihilistic end of pop-culture foretold by Frank Zappa: Death by Nostalgia.

 

[subject101]

It is fascinating how many hipster diagrams you can find;

http://www.the-fed.org/media/volume26/issue1/hipster.jpg

http://www.faston2wheels.com/f2/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/messenger.jpg

Some guys are really hipster obsessed.

 

[John in Covina]

If you look at the history of the Twentieth Century you will find many examples of these little "countercultures" inevitably founded upon pop/commercial art movements and a fashion trends (as Frank Zappa observed, the two are usually inextricable). These so-called "artistic movements," from the Greenwich Village writers, poets, and activists around WWI, to the Lost Generation immediately following WWI, the Beatniks, Hippies, Punks, and other varieties culminating in the Hipster only gained mass appeal and adoption in popular consciousness because of the mass media marketing system, including periodicals, radio, television, and film, the system which makes "pop culture" possible.

All of the proponents of these movements fought the existence of "homogeneous culture" of the literate age, focused on conventionality, formal dress, and democratic/capitalistic values. The members of this forum (at least most of them I would suspect) wish to extol the class and style of the supposed timelessness and classiness of pre-pop cultural values, style, and etiquette, the origins of which being found in the 18th and 19th centuries (just look at the origins of suits and ties and fedoras, etc.).

The problem with the Hipster relates to the fact that he is nauseatingly nostalgic of transient trends of the pop-cultural era (20th Century) and has no definitive art movement to hang his hat on, due to the recent demise of the artistic industries of the mass media marketing system (literature, music/radio industry, television, film), and is relatively ignorant of any sort of ideology (because he doesn't really read that much). The hipster has to rely on the only thing left from these aforementioned industries: the desire to be trendy and stylish as disassociated from any definitive artistic or ideological movement, with the exception of reality TV (if that counts) and horrible remakes of TV shows and great or at least original films. Hence the hipster eclectic, inane, and hoboish sense of style based on previous and outdated trends all thrown together on his unkempt, scraggly, and malnourished frame. The hipster has reached the nihilistic end of pop-culture foretold by Frank Zappa: Death by Nostalgia.

I am reminded some how of metrosexuals except that hipsters seem to be a poorer cousin.

 

[Pompidou]

I am reminded some how of metrosexuals except that hipsters seem to be a poorer cousin.

Both are meticulous in dressing to achieve an effect, though I'm not sure metrosexuals observe any overriding goals of dressing, aside from just observing quality. I think most people just dress to look socially acceptable in a general sense. Subcultures like ours and the hipsters add a framework of rules to the mix. People might not like the hipster attire, but the selection of its components is as meticulous a process as any - sort of the equivalent of efforts to emulate the 1930s worker or the film noir gentleman down to the hat style and cloth pattern. The difference is that all the effort goes into brand selection and perceived unpopularity, for lack of a better phrase. The idea of artificially engineering a whole look is always an interesting one.

 

[SGT Rocket]

Wow, Johnnyloco, very astute observation. I will probably have to read it twice to digest all the observations.

 

[John in Covina]

Both are meticulous in dressing to achieve an effect, though I'm not sure metrosexuals observe any overriding goals of dressing, aside from just observing quality. I think most people just dress to look socially acceptable in a general sense. Subcultures like ours and the hipsters add a framework of rules to the mix. People might not like the hipster attire, but the selection of its components is as meticulous a process as any - sort of the equivalent of efforts to emulate the 1930s worker or the film noir gentleman down to the hat style and cloth pattern. The difference is that all the effort goes into brand selection and perceived unpopularity, for lack of a better phrase. The idea of artificially engineering a whole look is always an interesting one.

Out this way it seems in a lot of different areas you get to see that engineered look to achieve membership status. I recall it being attached to music genres you had the heavy metal look, the punk look, the goth look, the rockabilly look. Much of this seems to have come from rock and roll influence and the advent of MTV made a lot of the music cultures cross the lines from reginal to international. The concept of emulating a look seen on say Ed Sullivan Show or later an MTV video and building a lifestyle attached to it is interesting. Look at how prior to TV the styles swept thru society. From Bing Crosby to zootsuits to Beatle boots and so on. I can't think of the word used but on You-tube they have video of people in Japan celebrating this type of thing. It is interesting to see and you never know what the next thing will be or how long what was a fad can stay in fashion for the subgroup.

 

[hatophile]

Out this way it seems in a lot of different areas you get to see that engineered look to achieve membership status. I recall it being attached to music genres you had the heavy metal look, the punk look, the goth look, the rockabilly look. Much of this seems to have come from rock and roll influence and the advent of MTV made a lot of the music cultures cross the lines from reginal to international. The concept of emulating a look seen on say Ed Sullivan Show or later an MTV video and building a lifestyle attached to it is interesting. Look at how prior to TV the styles swept thru society. From Bing Crosby to zootsuits to Beatle boots and so on. I can't think of the word used but on You-tube they have video of people in Japan celebrating this type of thing. It is interesting to see and you never know what the next thing will be or how long what was a fad can stay in fashion for the subgroup.

I belong to the country-rock-reggae-bluegrass-latin-jazz-celtic-world-swing group myself.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

I consider myself a 1950s-70s working-class, country-western, redneck, good ol' boy crowd.

I do not understand hipsters, myself.

I belong to the country-rock-reggae-bluegrass-latin-jazz-celtic-world-swing group myself.

 

[John in Covina]

I belong to the country-rock-reggae-bluegrass-latin-jazz-celtic-world-swing group myself.

How long have you been a member of Dread Zeppelin?