Article: "Should A Kindergartner Really Be Listening To Nicki Minaj?"

[C-dot]

I'm not qualified to disagree, but I can say you can find about as many scientists on either side of the impressionable youth debate. I follow it from time to time in regards to video games and movies more-so than music.

Well... Neither am I qualified to take the stance, outside of a Grade 11 Parenting class.

It still seems to me that this should be common sense, but people today are constantly pushing the barriers of common sense (and for that matter, taste.) They're labouring under the delusion that children don't understand what goes on around them, and that's a dangerous mistake to make.

 

[PrettySquareGal]

I feel qualified, having worked as a mental health counselor in the past (with a degree and certification, not an Oprah armchair variety). But not because of that, but because I have common sense, as mentioned by C-dot.

 

[PoohBang]

PB,
When you say, "this crowd", to whom are you referring? The varied members of the Fedora Lounge numbering above 21k members? Or the crowd commenting in this thread? Are you, then, separating yourself from said group? Are you, then, not a part of this discussion somehow? What kind of statement is this but inflammatory? You're raising a question and then damning a group of people with the immediate answer. It's not an argument, you've provided no points. It's condescending and unappreciated. I've kept my mouth shut until now, but I've seen a pattern in your posts and I think it's a shame. You seem to be a smart fella, but you have a real issue with coming into a conversation and taking a crap for no seemingly good reason but to stir the bowl.

Boys sometimes play army, etc. based on media they've encountered (which parents should be monitoring) including books, television, video games etc. However, specifically, boys play physically because that is their human nature and a progression of their roles in society. Girls have similar games they play which are extensions of eventual roles and needs. In any case, it is a parent's duty to monitor and make suggestions, if not outright control, what their children are "playing". That's not to say parents don't have a difficult time adapting to modern ethics, but if a little girl is singing filthy songs, then yes, mom and dad should knock it the h*ll off.

My point here is that WE, the crowd, or more importantly Society, have an integral role in shaping our youth. I agree with you that folks should raise their own kids - I don't think someone should tell me how to raise my child. But to simply laugh and say, "C'est la vie!" is lazy and ignorant. Have some class for godsake. It's not cute or funny to watch children acting like this, much less watching adults act like this. And for boys, it's not funny to see people murdered, so why not have a discussion with your kids when they're playing army? Or god forbid, sit them down each night and read to them about WWII.

We can't possibly control everything our children do, that would obviously drive us all mad. But what's wrong with a little shame? Do we need to be so lazy and shameless? Is it wrong to instill a sense of class into our youth? As far as I'm concerned, that's exactly what "this crowd" would like, and I see nothing wrong with it at all.

I was referring to the discussion here. "This crowd" A mostly conservative group who wouldn't do that with their kids. I wasn't trying to "Damn" a group. I'm sorry if you felt that way, but since you weren't saying anything before this then I guess you weren't damned to begin with.

No I don't feel I am a part of the 21K as all I really get from most of it's active members are rants like you gave me. Insulting me personally. I never insult anyone on a personal level here. I discuss and give perhaps an alternate view point to the "main" group think, but honestly, I think there are more like me then not like me. It's just our type usually don't speak up.

I never said I thought the video was cute or funny. I was done with the discussion and I thought we had left it quite nicely.

Then you had to go personal. Why do I seem to be on the offense a lot? It's because, personally I am.

And again, to the who cares... I never laughed and said "who cares."

I don't care about stuff I can't control. I can't control that parent who video taped her kid. I can't control the plane I'm riding on. So if it crashes or if she records it, I can't control it, so I don't care.

I'm not sure "shame" is the word, but I agree that common sense should be used more.

Now I'm done... again, unless someone else would like to insult me too.

 

[scottyrocks]

This leads me to my next thought: There really is a huge difference between music of the past that was considered subversive and the music of today, and that is the subject matter. Prior to the Baby Boomer generation, the older generation were more inclined to be stuck in their ways, so anything that was different would have been "shocking," but it didn't contain lyrics about crime, drugs, and misogyny. If it did, I'm certain it wouldn't have ever been recorded.

That's kind of the point I was getting at back a few posts. When the Stones released 'Satisfaction,' they had to bloop out the 'make some girl' line when laying it on the radio, or when they appeared on TV. Back then, the establishment thought that line was horrific. Us young'ns didn't. We thought it was cool.

The kids today think their music is cool, as offensive and wrong it sounds to our (my) ears. It's all relative to the times, regardless of the actual content of any one song.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I think the whole "let everybody do what they want" so far as kids are concerned argument gets a bit soggy when you think it thru. Is there anyone here who, in all seriousness, would think there's nothing wrong with a parent dressing a six-year-old up in an itty Klan robe, for example, and posting a video of him marching around a little flaming cross? If we agree that there's a point, any point, where you have to stand up and say "No. That's unacceptable in this society, and a sign of unfit parenting," then the whole argument becomes one of exactly where we believe that line ought to be drawn.

 

[Pompidou]

That's kind of the point I was getting at back a few posts. When the Stones released 'Satisfaction,' they had to bloop out the 'make some girl' line when laying it on the radio, or when they appeared on TV. Back then, the establishment thought that line was horrific. Us young'ns didn't. We thought it was cool.

The kids today think their music is cool, as offensive and wrong it sounds to our (my) ears. It's all relative to the times, regardless of the actual content of any one song.

This kind of goes along with what I'm thinking - that current culture's anything goes mentality is a proportional reaction to a past culture where pretty much everything was considered obscene.

 

[Pompidou]

I think the whole "let everybody do what they want" so far as kids are concerned argument gets a bit soggy when you think it thru. Is there anyone here who, in all seriousness, would think there's nothing wrong with a parent dressing a six-year-old up in an itty Klan robe, for example, and posting a video of him marching around a little flaming cross? If we agree that there's a point, any point, where you have to stand up and say "No. That's unacceptable in this society, and a sign of unfit parenting," then the whole argument becomes one of exactly where we believe that line ought to be drawn.

I suppose the other argument is over who gets to decide where the line aught to be drawn. I have lines, you've got lines - I imagine everyone's got a different line. Do we say that the majority gets to make this determination? Seems reasonable enough. I'd imagine that's where we stand today. That means, as far as TFL would be concerned, it should be anyone but the majority making the determination. I'm not sure people would go for some sort of Department of High Culture trying to force them back to 1895. I would be the happiest if I was the one who got to decide what was appropriate for everyone else, but I wouldn't be happy if anyone else got the job. It's no easy fix.

 

[PoohBang]

Just a thought on this...

As I couldn't actually understand what the little girls were saying and as I don't know the song. Did they actually sing the actual lyrics of the song or did they sing the radio "safe" version of the song?

I saw the girls were on Ellen and got to meet the original singer.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

.

I can't make out one blessed word that the little girl is singing. It sounds "unintelligible at any speed". I wonder if she understands it herself, or is it just a string of Jabberwocky babble to her?

 

[Marc Chevalier]

I'm certain a four year old wouldn't know what a socialist is ...

Let alone a dog...

 

[PrettySquareGal]

.

I can't make out one blessed word that the little girl is singing. It sounds "unintelligible at any speed". I wonder if she understands it herself, or is it just a string of Jabberwocky babble to her?

I'm sure she understands the gist of the song in little girl terms (tough people doing bad things). But the parents understand what the lyrics are as does the general public (even if they can't understand them as they come out of her mouth.) So it's the adults, in my opinion, who should be ashamed. The little girls are the victims.

 

[PrettySquareGal]

Just a thought on this...

As I couldn't actually understand what the little girls were saying and as I don't know the song. Did they actually sing the actual lyrics of the song or did they sing the radio "safe" version of the song?

I saw the girls were on Ellen and got to meet the original singer.

I think Ellen is a hypocrite. She once had Snoop Dog perform "Drop it like it's hot" on her show, and all the soccer mom types danced to it. Nice message:

“I keep a blue flag hanging out my backside, But only on the left side, yeah that's the Crip side”

I didn't know she was on the show. I think it sends a bad message. But thanks for letting me know about that!

 

[sheeplady]

The thing is, we've already drawn lines in the sand, and sometimes those lines are exaggerated beyond belief. We end up in this weird dicotomy of "no rules" or "so many rules" that common sense is out the window.

For instance, in some schools in the US, we have zero tolerance policies. Bring crack to school? Expulsion. Bring Tylenol? Expulsion. Smack some kid in the head? Expulsion. Get beat up and not even fight back? Expulsion. Bring a switchblade? Expulsion. Bring a pair of sizzors? Expulsion. Obviously some of these things are not like the others.

So what we are left with is that it is socially ok for a child to listen to and perform music that has disturbing lyrics, but sizzors are weapons. Really?

 

[C-dot]

This kind of goes along with what I'm thinking - that current culture's anything goes mentality is a proportional reaction to a past culture where pretty much everything was considered obscene.

That's such a broad generalization of Golden Era culture that it can't be true.

Like I said a few posts back, it's a different world now. The Baby Boomer generation had a lot to do with changing the old world. There isn't any proportional comparison, because there can't be.

 

[scottyrocks]

This kind of goes along with what I'm thinking - that current culture's anything goes mentality is a proportional reaction to a past culture where pretty much everything was considered obscene.

I'd don't know if I'd go as far was saying that what I wrote backs up what you were thinking. There are always things at any point in time that are not considered obscene. I remember the radio being on all morning when I was a kid. My parents listened to WNEW-AM which featured the music of Sinatra, Bennett, Torme, A. Williams, Peggy Lee, et al. None of that was considered obscene by the elder generation.

 

[Tango Yankee]

Setting aside the whole inappropriateness of the song for a little girl to be singing for a moment, I'm constantly amazed at how many parents (heck, people in general) don't grasp the fact that these days once it's put out there on the 'net, it's out there forever. Somewhere down the road there's going to be a kid whose parents have done something like that running for office--and their opponents will find and exploit such things. Or companies doing background searches on potential employees. Chances are that little girl's career path is not going to be a triumphant singing career but that video has the potential to haunt her the rest of her life.

Will it be fair to her? No. But that doesn't mean it won't happen. Heck, I even refrain from posting photos of my godson when he was a boy (he's in his second year of university now) on Facebook because I don't want to embarrass him and they're just photos of him as a kid.

So in my eyes, it's bad parenting for the reasons others have stated, but also because of the long-range impact it may have on her life when it gets attention when she's an adult.

Regards,
Tom

 

[scottyrocks]

You expect the great masses to think ahead?

 

[LizzieMaine]

I'd don't know if I'd go as far was saying that what I wrote backs up what you were thinking. There are always things at any point in time that are not considered obscene. I remember the radio being on all morning when I was a kid. My parents listened to WNEW-AM which featured the music of Sinatra, Bennett, Torme, A. Williams, Peggy Lee, et al. None of that was considered obscene by the elder generation.

Thing is, there *were* adult lyrics during the Era. Leaving aside hardcore blues records, which were essentially unknown to mainstream audiences at the time, you had things like "Reefer Man," which was a big pop hit in 1934 -- I have an aircheck of a broadcast in which Ozzie Nelson, of all people, does a hilarious vocal on that selection -- or "I Get A Kick Out of You," in which the singer confesses that he "gets no kick from cocaine."

But here's the difference. You didn't have six year old kids going on Major Bowes and singing these songs. Any parent who would have proposed such a thing would have been tossed out on her ear.

 

[LoveMyHats2]

Setting aside the whole inappropriateness of the song for a little girl to be singing for a moment, I'm constantly amazed at how many parents (heck, people in general) don't grasp the fact that these days once it's put out there on the 'net, it's out there forever. Somewhere down the road there's going to be a kid whose parents have done something like that running for office--and their opponents will find and exploit such things. Or companies doing background searches on potential employees. Chances are that little girl's career path is not going to be a triumphant singing career but that video has the potential to haunt her the rest of her life.

Will it be fair to her? No. But that doesn't mean it won't happen. Heck, I even refrain from posting photos of my godson when he was a boy (he's in his second year of university now) on Facebook because I don't want to embarrass him and they're just photos of him as a kid.

So in my eyes, it's bad parenting for the reasons others have stated, but also because of the long-range impact it may have on her life when it gets attention when she's an adult.

Regards,
Tom

You always have such a nice touch for saying it how it is, thank you.

I have to say, I can draw some "flack" for my comment at this time per my thought process, but, it is what I think and it is MY opinion...there are far too many "people" that have children, that should have not had them to begin with. Why do I say that? Because so many of them are virtually frigging brain dead, that's why! It has nothing to do with "vintage" or who made what come or go, come on now....it is called "common sense", right or wrong.

Tango hit is right on the nose...your mistakes will be there and may hurt you in the future....but you see, "Brain Dead" people lack the available level of intellect to gather enough daily right versus wrong in how they do things and pass that onto their innocent children...which in turn is going to pass it right down the line to another set of ""Brain Dead" parents. It is going to happen, time and again. You could not point out to the girls parents how wrong anything would be, they have it made up in their minds...if the kid would be famous for swallowing razor blades, they would be buying them and stuffing her face with them and have not a single concern for the end results....

 

[C-dot]

I have to say, I can draw some "flack" for my comment at this time per my thought process, but, it is what I think and it is MY opinion...there are far too many "people" that have children, that should have not had them to begin with. Why do I say that? Because so many of them are virtually frigging brain dead, that's why! It has nothing to do with "vintage" or who made what come or go, come on now....it is called "common sense", right or wrong.

I agree so much with this, it hurts. I'll clean up a quote from the 1989 movie Parenthood, in which Keanu Reeves says: "You know, Mrs. Buckman, you need a license to buy a dog, to drive a car - You even need a license to catch a fish. But anyone can be a father."