Article: "Should A Kindergartner Really Be Listening To Nicki Minaj?"

[PrettySquareGal]

Parents, indeed adults, have always found ways of 'abusing' children, whether physically or emotionally, so in the overall scheme of things, this is not too bad, excepting the idea that we, as 'old-fashioned types,' don't like it.

That doesn't sit well with me, scottyrocks. I understand that no parent is perfect and what may be considered "abuse" today wasn't back in the day (spanking, for example). But to use a dysfunctional yardstick for what is healthy isn't my idea of how to discern what is good for little girls (again, not saying what's perfect). Just because perfection can't be reached doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for it and say "well it's not so bad compared to..."

 

[PrettySquareGal]

The problem is that so many parents see nothing wrong with, for example, Primark selling padded bras for 7 year olds (this just sickens me - however they had to withdraw them after many complaints but the fact they are made and put out on a shop floor is pretty disgusting) and buying Playboy pencil cases for school or t-shirts with suggestive messages on them.

I remember my mother turning off the radio when Like a Virgin came on - and that seems so incredibly tame today. Anything my parents thought unsuitable on tv was switched off - whether it was bad language or sex scenes. Too many parents now don't care enough or see anything wrong with exposing their children to adult themes.

The video of this little girl singing along innocently to pretty unsavoury subject matters is very unsettling but sadly a sign of the times.

Those padded bras go along with the reality shows/beauty pageants now on TV where little girls dress like grown women in suggestive poses.

 

[PrettySquareGal]

In the UK: The classes where children as young as THREE learn to pole dance

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...asses-children-young-THREE.html#ixzz1aYxiwyz7

 

[LoveMyHats2]

Here, we've got a kid with musical talent. The worst thing to do would be to take away the source of the enthusiasm. Music tastes change over time. If the kid likes Nicki Minaj for whatever reason, and the music fosters a talent, just run with it.

Give the kid a Kazoo...not a stick of dynamite...to play with. The "talent" part of all of this can change rapidly as well....as it depends on whom is judging that there is any real talent to begin with. And after hearing this Nicki Minaj, have to say, talent is not there, music stinks, hard to put up with, a good train wreck or packed commercial airliner crashing, sounds better than this crap!

 

[LoveMyHats2]

In the UK: The classes where children as young as THREE learn to pole dance

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...asses-children-young-THREE.html#ixzz1aYxiwyz7

I have a "pole" for the parents of those kids...they ain't gonna dance on it......

 

[PrettySquareGal]

Parents, indeed adults, have always found ways of 'abusing' children, whether physically or emotionally, so in the overall scheme of things, this is not too bad, excepting the idea that we, as 'old-fashioned types,' don't like it.

Personally, I can't stand that type of music and refuse to have it played in my presence, especially by children. It completely sends the wrong message, in my opinion. But then, the establishment thought Elvis, and the Beatles, and the Stones were the devil incarnate fifty years ago and we see nothing wrong with them.

Popular music has always been about pushing the envelope. When you're young, it's acceptable. As we age, our minds, just like our skin, lose some of that elasticity. I am not defending the kid, or the parents, or who posted that video, just presenting some background and/or insight as to why they did what they did.

The majority of today's youth don't find Elvis' gyrations or the biggest '60s groups' drug habits the front line of cool anymore. The line has moved, and as far as I am concerned, far off into the wrong direction. And it will continue to move. But there it sits.

Been thinking about this...

You bring up the issue of the "artist" being demonized by society and I agree that was was considered demonic by old standards is tame by today's. But we're discussing toddlers emulating them, so I don't think they can be lumped into "kids today" category for then or now which usually expresses a teen culture.

 

[Edward]

I'm certain a four year old wouldn't know what a socialist is & I'm guessing they wouldn't pick up on the Dylan Thomas reference either.

Based on everything I've seen (which is a lot) about these particular protests, the parents of said four year old blatantly don't know what a socialist is either. You make a fair point though, and yes I've seen it across the political spectrum, though (perhaps logically) it does seem to occur more among those groups of whatever stripe who emphasise the "family" the most in their rhetoric.

Reminds me of a woman I saw on one of those Dr. shows who allowed her 8 and 10 year old daughters to dance around a stripper pole (as you do.)

The author is right, parents really should consider what effect suggestive material will have on their young children. This should be common sense. What goes through these people's heads: The kids don't know what the lyrics mean yet, so it must be okay? Children tend to accept certain things as fact when they are exposed to them early on - They ought not to be exposed to songs like this until they are old enough to understand the meaning fully, and form their own conclusions.

Well, to paraphrase Atticus Finch (the character, not our erstwhile member), kids understand a heck of a lot more than that for which we give them credit, and by telling them nonsense to explain it away, all we do is confuse them more.

In the UK: The classes where children as young as THREE learn to pole dance

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...asses-children-young-THREE.html#ixzz1aYxiwyz7

Please don't be alarmed by anything you read in the Daily Mail - their moral panic stories are the equivalent of saying all Southerners are pro-KKK bigots, or that anyone who disagrees with a black president is a racist. Treat the Mail as you would some of your US supermarket tabloids (it really only is naught more than a tabloid with pretentions to being a newspaper - the Enquirer for the middle classes, if you like), and you'll not go far wrong.

On the subject of pole dancing, though.... I always saw it as a stripper thing myself, until I saw a young lady do a routine with a pole at a burlesque night last year. There was no removal of clothing at all, it wasn't about that. (I personally do draw a very large distinction between stripping and striptease anyhow, but that's another matter). It did make me appreciate it as a gymnastic art. I have also read about a lady in the UK who teaches it (and has taught it to women in Dubai, very traditional Muslim ladies out there) and who actively is trying to take it away from the association with sex, though I imagine that's a hard sell given that most people only associate pole dancing with the sex industry.

 

[PrettySquareGal]

Please don't be alarmed by anything you read in the Daily Mail - their moral panic stories are the equivalent of saying all Southerners are pro-KKK bigots, or that anyone who disagrees with a black president is a racist. Treat the Mail as you would some of your US supermarket tabloids (it really only is naught more than a tabloid with pretentions to being a newspaper - the Enquirer for the middle classes, if you like), and you'll not go far wrong.

On the subject of pole dancing, though.... I always saw it as a stripper thing myself, until I saw a young lady do a routine with a pole at a burlesque night last year. There was no removal of clothing at all, it wasn't about that. (I personally do draw a very large distinction between stripping and striptease anyhow, but that's another matter). It did make me appreciate it as a gymnastic art. I have also read about a lady in the UK who teaches it (and has taught it to women in Dubai, very traditional Muslim ladies out there) and who actively is trying to take it away from the association with sex, though I imagine that's a hard sell given that most people only associate pole dancing with the sex industry.

It's a true story not tabloid nonsense:

Little Spinners – £4.50 (45 Mins)
Yes! We’re doing it for the kids! The long awaited children’s pole class is here. Learn to lift, spin, climb and fly in a safe and fun environment. Help your children to use their bodies, move, balance and be free. Suitable for any child under 16 years.

http://makemefabulous.co.uk/classes/

Not sure I buy that pole dancing is the new jump rope for kids devoid of suggestive/sexualized movement.

 

[Miss Golightly]

Please don't be alarmed by anything you read in the Daily Mail - their moral panic stories are the equivalent of saying all Southerners are pro-KKK bigots, or that anyone who disagrees with a black president is a racist. Treat the Mail as you would some of your US supermarket tabloids (it really only is naught more than a tabloid with pretentions to being a newspaper - the Enquirer for the middle classes, if you like), and you'll not go far wrong.

On the subject of pole dancing, though.... I always saw it as a stripper thing myself, until I saw a young lady do a routine with a pole at a burlesque night last year. There was no removal of clothing at all, it wasn't about that. (I personally do draw a very large distinction between stripping and striptease anyhow, but that's another matter). It did make me appreciate it as a gymnastic art. I have also read about a lady in the UK who teaches it (and has taught it to women in Dubai, very traditional Muslim ladies out there) and who actively is trying to take it away from the association with sex, though I imagine that's a hard sell given that most people only associate pole dancing with the sex industry.

Edward - I agree - the Daily Mail is a complete hypocritical/sexist/mindless rag - I just love all their articles damning performances on X Factor or whatever whilst having a bevy of semi-naked ladies down the righthand side of their site.

Pole Dancing by men is quite popular in India - several examples can been seen on Youtube - however it is purely for the gymnastic aspect of it. I personally don't care for it being pushed at women as some kind of "empowering" exercise. Whilst I can appreciate the effort it takes (and ability to not injure yourself) it seems to me to be another thing that merely reduces women to be a man's plaything - to be there solely for their pleasure - and there's nothing empowering about that (some may see it differently and that's their opinion).

 

[C-dot]

Here, we've got a kid with musical talent. The worst thing to do would be to take away the source of the enthusiasm. Music tastes change over time. If the kid likes Nicki Minaj for whatever reason, and the music fosters a talent, just run with it.

Why should this music foster her talent? There are plenty of other songs, yes, even in the same genre, that could foster said talent. Children have very malleable minds, and while a parent cannot stop their exposure to explicit songs or TV shows and the like, they can teach them early on what is appropriate and what isn't.

Consider this example: When I was about 9 years old, my older brother had a mix CD with a Bodycount song on it. While I was allowed to listen to all the other songs on the CD, my parents forbade me to listen to that song. I didn't understand why, but I wasn't at the age where I would consider defying my parents. When I got older, I became familiar with Bodycount and many other artists of the same ilk, but I knew why my parent's didn't want me listening to it then.

The difference? My critical thinking was now developed. I could have chosen to listen to Bodycount, but I chose not to - Not because of my parents, but by my own free will.

Whilst I can appreciate the effort it takes (and ability to not injure yourself) it seems to me to be another thing that merely reduces women to be a man's plaything - to be there solely for their pleasure - and there's nothing empowering about that (some may see it differently and that's their opinion).

Exactly - Though it may be viewed differently in other parts of the world, that's how it is viewed in most cultures. If this is how it sexualizes women, what does it do to children?

 

[LizzieMaine]

Several years ago Ariel Levy of the New Yorker wrote a very thought-provoking book about just this sort of issue, and a lot of people dismissed her as a prude and a Cassandra. But if anything she ought to be working on a sequel.

 

[Miss Golightly]

Several years ago Ariel Levy of the New Yorker wrote a very thought-provoking book about just this sort of issue, and a lot of people dismissed her as a prude and a Cassandra. But if anything she ought to be working on a sequel.

I was just thinking about this - see this is the thing that gets me - that women buy into the whole thing - that being sexy is the only thing that matters as a woman - nothing else.

The fact that Jordan/Katie Price's target market is women and no longer men just says it all - they are the ones buying her books (?!!!), her perfumes (again ?!!!!!), her magazine etc. It's like a tide of vacuousness is taking over so many women - that their only ambition in life is to be hot/sexy.

 

[PrettySquareGal]

Several years ago Ariel Levy of the New Yorker wrote a very thought-provoking book about just this sort of issue, and a lot of people dismissed her as a prude and a Cassandra. But if anything she ought to be working on a sequel.

Added to my wish list on amazon!

 

[scottyrocks]

Been thinking about this...

You bring up the issue of the "artist" being demonized by society and I agree that was was considered demonic by old standards is tame by today's. But we're discussing toddlers emulating them, so I don't think they can be lumped into "kids today" category for then or now which usually expresses a teen culture.

In post 21 you took me a little out of context. I don't like what what I saw there either, but 'we' are a product of our times. There are ton of people who worship this type of musuc and feel that it is appropriate for (their) children. Personally, I don't believe this, though, and I thought I has made that clear. My values re very different from that of many people of today. In my estimation, what those parents did was wrong but i am not the final authority.

But if the parents in question here are looking to get an early show-biz start for their kid, then they've picked a relevant genre in today's society. No, I don't like it, but that's how a lot of people think these days.

 

[PrettySquareGal]

In post 21 you took me a little out of context. I don't like what what I saw there either, but 'we' are a product of our times. There are ton of people who worship this type of musuc and feel that it is appropriate for (their) children. Personally, I don't believe this, though, and I thought I has made that clear. My values re very different from that of many people of today. In my estimation, what those parents did was wrong but i am not the final authority.

But if the parents in question here are looking to get an early show-biz start for their kid, then they've picked a relevant genre in today's society. No, I don't like it, but that's how a lot of people think these days.

Oh, I am clear that you do not agree with it, and I get the cultural relativism. But there are many many genres out there from which to choose that are also age appropriate. It's true some parents worship this music, and think it's great to get their kids a head start, but I feel OK calling that act a bad parenting decision.

 

[scottyrocks]

Oh, I am clear that you do not agree with it, and I get the cultural relativism. But there are many many genres out there from which to choose that are also age appropriate. It's true some parents worship this music, and think it's great to get their kids a head start, but I feel OK calling that act a bad parenting decision.

Okay, so then we agree on this. I was one of a group of kids who set up a bunch of household junk on the front porch and made believe we were the Monkees. Oh, the innocence! :lol:

 

[Undertow]

The way I see it, kids hear that stuff regardless, so the choice comes down to fostering the talent. Should she be listening to that sort of stuff? No, probably not. My parents never let me watch/listen to that sort of stuff. Didn't matter much - my neighbors did, and my other friends did. The kids at school did. I'm not sure it's possible to raise kids in a bubble where only wholesome values are present. I suppose a combination of homeschooling and general seclusion could do the trick, but then you'd be instilling problems of a wholly different sort. That and I think making things forbidden only increases their importance. Is it just a song nobody pays attention to, or is it such an important song that parents forbid its message being heard?

And this specifically highlights my argument.

Of course one cannot simply bury their child's head into the sand to protect them from real or imagined harms. Certainly the neighbor children, and quite likely the neighbor adults, may play roles as bad influences in a child's life. And you're correct that seculding your child will likely produce more harm than good.

Yet, it is a parent's duty to build a strong foundation for their child to eventually create their own life. Although one cannot possibly shield their child from these things, they can certainly frown on them. "Not under my roof," is a common enough phrase. If children are shooting heroin in the bathroom, do we just shrug our shoulders? If they're listening to this garbage, let them enjoy it with their friends or at school. You're right, there's no sense in sweating it - but that does not mean you capitulate at home simply because everyone else does it.

Children require discipline. In fact, most people thrive with structure. There's nothing wrong with that, and children grow to appreciate it in the end. Ask anyone from a broken, chaotic home. Moreover, this story and the picture of the kids holding the sign above smacks of no-class, selfish adults that need slapped. We live in a no-class society and it's disgusting.

 

[PrettySquareGal]

Okay, so then we agree on this. I was one of a group of kids who set up a bunch of household junk on the front porch and made believe we were the Monkees. Oh, the innocence! :lol:

Hey, I saw the Monkees in concert in NY in the 80's when they reunited for a tour. Girls were throwing their undergarments at those innocent, middle-aged Monkee-men. :eeek:

I loved rap as a kid/young teen, but we had Run-DMC. Rap was much MUCH cleaner back then!!!

 

[C-dot]

Children require discipline. In fact, most people thrive with structure. There's nothing wrong with that, and children grow to appreciate it in the end.

You're right, children do require discipline. Part of their development is testing the boundaries: they do it from as early as age two up until their teenage years, sometimes even beyond. The consequences are clear when parents don't set the boundaries - Anyone who doesn't believe me should visit their local mall on a Saturday afternoon.

I loved rap as a kid/young teen, but we had Run-DMC. Rap was much MUCH cleaner back then!!!

This leads me to my next thought: There really is a huge difference between music of the past that was considered subversive and the music of today, and that is the subject matter. Prior to the Baby Boomer generation, the older generation were more inclined to be stuck in their ways, so anything that was different would have been "shocking," but it didn't contain lyrics about crime, drugs, and misogyny. If it did, I'm certain it wouldn't have ever been recorded.

It's a different world now - We don't shock as easily since the Boomers shook us up in the late 60s. But in becoming less conservative, have we gone to the other extreme and become more passive? When I see a small child singing a Nicki Minaj song, then I believe yes, we have.

 

[sheeplady]

Well, personally I'd be pretty upset about more than just the sexuality in the song. I really don't want my (hypothetical) young white child using racist or misogynistic language as entertainment or performing songs with such language.

I understand that there are different feelings about using racist terms and some want to re-own these words in segments of the Black/ African American community. That is why I don't tell other people what to say or do. However, my child is under my roof, and at that age, I don't think they can understand the different feelings and arguments surrounding the usage of that term. There is other music in the genre that doesn't use those terms, they can perform that when they are young.

I'm not sure if leaving that word out of the song would do much good- in some ways that is cleansing the artist's work, and I'm not sure if that is the right thing to do. And besides, removing that little bit doesn't take care of the inappropriate sexuality and the glorification of violence against other women.