An Appeal to the Yanks Around Here

[Marc Chevalier]

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Dear Yanks:


Over the past few days, one thread --"Show Us Your British Suits"-- has, IMO, singlehandedly pulled the Fedora Lounge up several notches. The level of knowledge and research being shared in there is superb. A fine example of what this 'joint', at its best, can be.


I'm putting a call out to the most knowledgeable Yanks around here (the active ones, the silent ones, and the ones who went away) to discuss the fine points of vintage American men's suit tailoring -- with the same rigor as that shown by our British Loungers. Let's see if we have enough passion and grit to do it.


Later today, I'll set this thread in motion with some detailed photos of a hand-tailored American 'lounge' suit from 1911, and of apparel bespoke made by three of America's most prestigious tailoring firms from the Golden Era: "Twyeffort", "Eddie Schmidt", and "Stadler & Stadler". (A fourth, "Wetzel", will follow later.)


Crossing fingers that this isn't a pipe dream ... because I'm inches away from giving up.

 

[Mr Vim]

Marc,

I appreciate the fervor of your request and your display of the gems of your collection. I truly wish I could oblige your request but I am still learning the history of American Suiting myself. Having said that, should you start such a thread I will gladly participate in it as the novice I clearly am.

Regards
Vim

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Vim,

I welcome your enthusiasm and readiness to participate. We are all learners; some are just beginning, some have been at it for a while, and some are very quick learners indeed: one or two on the Lounge have proven to be vintage menswear prodigies.


I'm discouraged that the Loungers who know the most about 'golden era' American tailoring have either disappeared or hardly ever post. The recent vibrancy of the "Show Us Your British Suits" thread shows what we're missing around here.


And if we can't --or won't-- capably and knowledgeably discuss vintage American menswear tailoring, then who will? The folks at the "Ask Andy About Clothes Forum"? The "Styleforum"? The "Film Noir Buff Style Forum"? "The London Lounge"? Nope. Vintage American ain't their cup of tea. Are there any other appropriate fora, then? Nope.


So ... either it will happen in the Fedora Lounge, or it won't happen at all. And if it won't happen, then why should a 'longtime learner' even spend time here?

 

[Chasseur]

Marc,

I would second Mr. Vim. I am a novice to vintage clothing, though I have a learned a great deal in the past two years I've been on the Lounge (in particular from your "Chevalier helps your outfits thread"). I now own about 8 vintage suits, 3-4 complete sets of vintage formal wear, and many vintage sportcoats and hats (perhaps I've a problem and need to stop! ). However, I am very interested in participating as best as I can, and I do my best to post photos of things I get and questions I have however limited my contributions might be.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Thank you, Chasseur.


The inescapable truth is that most of the informed and valued members who attracted me to the Fedora Lounge have left it. And when they left, some others became discouraged and left as well. This happens in all fora. I, too, have gone away and come back several times, hoping that new experts would show up and raise the bar to previous high levels. But by and large, those new experts have not arrived. Perhaps the pool is so small that new experts aren't even out there ... who can say?


This thread is my own last-ditch effort to see if the bar can be raised again.

 

[Mr Vim]

So in fact, if no one else tries to respond to it Marc, you have us two willing to learn and to research more on American Suiting, shoot I need a hobby, we're having a tough winter here and I'm snowed in most days except when I drag myself to work.

 

[SteveAS]

I'm also a novice regarding vintage suits. I have two pre-1950s suits and one pre-1950s American sport coat, but none of them is from a prestigious maker. If they're of interest (?), I'll take and post some detailed photos.

Despite my novice status, I love learning about the old suits and very much appreciate the contributions of members who further other members' educations. I'd be happy to contribute what I can.

 

[Fletch]

The best American tailoring has always been done by immigrants whose first language was not English, and whose livelihood depended far more on trade secrets than did the British tradition, where tailoring had a higher status and esteem.

Add in the greater importance of fashion and the very real obsolescence of style, and it's no surprise that the knowledge is not there to be preserved in this country.

 

[Tomasso]

Over the past few days, one thread --"Show Us Your British Suits"-- has, IMO, singlehandedly pulled the Fedora Lounge up several notches. The level of knowledge and research being shared in there is superb.

I don't know, that thread seems like a big meandering mishmash to me.[huh]

 

[Marc Chevalier]

I don't know, that thread seems like a big meandering mishmash to me.[huh]

You think so? I've learned more over there in the last few days than in any other "Suits" thread over the past three years.

 

[Feraud]

Looks like the irrelevant comments were deleted from the British Suit thread.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

The best American tailoring has always been done by immigrants whose first language was not English, and whose livelihood depended far more on trade secrets than did the British tradition, where tailoring had a higher status and esteem.

Add in the greater importance of fashion and the very real obsolescence of style, and it's no surprise that the knowledge is not there to be preserved in this country.

Very, very true ... and that's what makes the subject especially interesting. Actually, some writers of the era did an excellent job at 'demystifying' the ebb and flow of early to mid 20th-century American tailoring. Look for these old books:


THE BIG SPENDERS, by Lucius Morris Beebe.

MEN CAN TAKE IT, by Elizabeth Hawes.

MEN TOO WEAR CLOTHES, by Dorothy Stote.

 

[Undertow]

Marc, I catch your drift but...

...my only exposure to vintage is 1.)Hollywood 2.)TFL 3.)Catalogs/reference materials. To make matters worse, I'm searching for information on a sub-sub-culture while fighting against the tides of a society that prizes 15 minutes of fame over enduring quality. I'm too big to fit into vintage, and I have a hell of a time even trying to locate actual vintage (clothes, shoes, cars, appliances, haircuts, etc,).

There aren't many guys like you around, Marc. Of those guys, few are on the Lounge. And of those, many don't seem terribly inclined to post.

I'd really hate to see you go (again), but I'm not sure you'll get much help. I'm always lurking about trying to expand my already paltry knowledge on this subject. Unfortunately, I don't have much to contribute save to echo established information.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

And of those, many don't seem terribly inclined to post.

Sadly, there used to be more 'suit experts' in the FL, and they did post. I know some of these guys, and have asked them why they disappeared. The answers vary (and I won't go into them all here). But one common complaint did emerge: these fellows felt they had been contributing a lot of information but receiving (learning!) very little new information in return. The relationship between them and the Lounge increasingly felt one-sided, and they got burned out. I know the feeling.


I've contacted some 'MIA' Loungers and invited them to jump into this thread, if only for old times' sake. We'll see if they do.

 

[Tomasso]

Looks like the irrelevant comments were deleted from the British Suit thread.

The only comment removed was the joke I made about Ben using the account belonging to Miss Sis. She had fun with it but the bartender obviously didn't.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

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Here goes nothing…


A two-piece, black, smooth-finished wool suit, custom made in 1910 or 1911 by Jacob Faber, a Wilmington, Delaware tailor (and barber!) who had immigrated to the U.S. from Hungary in the 1880s. Silk satin lined jacket with satin-covered buttons. Note the details on the trousers. Comments? Questions?

 

[Marc Chevalier]

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A grey worsted wool morning coat and matching trousers bespoke made by Eddie Schmidt, Inc. around 1930. It was said that three Schmidt suits cost as much as a good new car. You can read more about Eddie Schmidt here: http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?20949-Eddie-Schmidt-Hollywood-s-tailor.

Silk satin lined jacket. Note the position and dimensions of the darts on the jacket and trousers. Note the trouser pockets. Note the seam work on the jacket’s back. Comments? Questions?

 

[Marc Chevalier]

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The Eddie Schmidt trousers:

 

[Marc Chevalier]

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A cheviot cashmere sportcoat (in malachite green) bespoke made by Twyeffort, Inc. in 1944. Lined in silk taffeta. Smokey mother-of-pearl buttons. Note the superb lining work, and the hip pockets with inward bellows.

“Raymond Godfrey Twyeffort was a somewhat legendary custom clothier of his day and a minor celebrity in his own right. Regarded as a taste-maker and expert on men's fashion, Twyeffort was the second generation head of a thriving ultra high-end tailoring firm. He shared the same address in a co-op with the Goulds, and served only the very wealthiest of Americans throughout the first half of the 20th century. Twyeffort strongly favored distinct, vibrant color in men's dress, and was quoted as saying that a man should dress more as a peacock than a penguin.”

Comments? Questions?

 

[Marc Chevalier]

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A three-piece wool flannel suit bespoke made by Stadler & Stadler for Samuel Robert Weltz, a wealthy New York City attorney who, in the 1930s, helped singer Helen Kane sue Max Fleischer Studios, the creator of Betty Boop, for “stealing” Kane’s act. Founded in 1891, Stadler & Stadler held its place as one of America’s most prestigious tailoring firms for nearly 80 years.

Silk satin lined jacket. Note the details on the jacket and waistcoat. Note that the trouser’s small side pleats are, in fact, sewn down as darts. Comments? Questions?