An Appeal to the Yanks Around Here

[Chasseur]

Marc,

This response will not be on the level you are looking for but...

In reference to the Faber, from my limited knowledge I find it odd to have on a set of trousers that early (1910-11) to have all three waist arrangements: waist adjusters, suspender/brace buttons and belt loops. In particular the belt loops on trousers so early. Also the two flapped and buttons back pockets caught my eye as well.

 

[Tomasso]

Marc,

This response will not be on the level you are looking for but...

I'm clueless as to what kind of response is expected of me.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

I'm clueless as to what kind of response is expected of me.

Analyze the suits. Tell us something that strikes you about their construction, style, etc. Compare and contrast details. Teach us something that might be new to us. Offer us conversation-provoking photos of vintage suits of your own, if any.

 

[WH1]

Marc
I am curious about the weights of the fabrics in the suits. Do you see them decreasing in weight over the years?

I have a very limited knowledge and a couple of items I will post in the near future in an attempt to ensure your continued presence on this site as we have all benefited from your knowledge and wit over the years and they are sorely missed when you are absent.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Marc
I am curious about the weights of the fabrics in the suits. Do you see them decreasing in weight over the years?

In the U.S., ranges of weights have long been available, but it wasn't until the 1930s that textile mills made real strides in decreasing the weights of their warm-weather suiting fabrics. In the '50s, Nylon / Dacron blend suits --pioneered by Brooks Brothers, of all makers-- were very lightweight, and became even lighter in the '60s. That said, heavy wool suits --worsteds, flannels and tweeds-- continued to be mass produced into the late '80s-early '90s. I remember them well.

 

[WH1]

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A three-piece wool flannel suit bespoke made by Stadler & Stadler for Samuel Robert Weltz, a wealthy New York City attorney who, in the 1930s, helped singer Helen Kane sue Max Fleischer Studios, the creator of Betty Boop, for “stealing” Kane’s act. Founded in 1891, Stadler & Stadler held its place as one of America’s most prestigious tailoring firms for nearly 80 years.

Silk satin lined jacket. Note the details on the jacket and waistcoat. Note that the trouser’s small side pleats are, in fact, sewn down as darts. Comments? Questions?

This is a beauty. It has some interesting features such as the ticket pocket (thought that was more of a British thing) and the piping on the cuff. Is this a blade style suit?

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Is this a blade style suit?

Yes, but not extremely so. It's only seen when worn.

 

[Tomasso]

Teach us something that might be new to us.

About bespoke or RTW? They are two different animals and should not be commingled as was done on the British Suit thread.

 

[resortes805]

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A cheviot cashmere sportcoat (in malachite green) bespoke made by Twyeffort, Inc. in 1944. Lined in silk taffeta. Smokey mother-of-pearl buttons. Note the superb lining work, and the hip pockets with inward bellows.

“Raymond Geoffrey Twyeffort was a somewhat legendary custom clothier of his day and a minor celebrity in his own right. Regarded as a taste-maker and expert on men's fashion, Twyeffort was the second generation head of a thriving ultra high-end tailoring firm. He shared the same address in a co-op with the Goulds, and served only the very wealthiest of Americans throughout the first half of the 20th century. Twyeffort strongly favored distinct, vibrant color in men's dress, and was quoted as saying that a man should dress more as a peacock than a penguin.”

Comments? Questions?

I'll take a stab. I am by no means a suit-phile; most of my vintage suits were mass-produced store brands. Yet, this suit falls into my era of interest, so I can point a few things outs.

First, the color. Peruse any 1930s or 1940s catalog and you will see plenty of green and brown suits, colors that are quite rare today. Incidentally, while black suits are everywhere nowadays, I have only encountered a handful of black suits from the era, and have seen them rarely advertised in contemporary catalogs of the time.

Marc, the cashmere fabric seems quite thick and scratchy, almost twill-like. Is this a heavy coat, perhaps for winter or fall?

Another hallmark of American suits of this era is the petal or skeleton lining. What sets this suit apart is the lined seams (which wasn't always done) and the silk lining. Run of the mill suits of the time would have been lined in rayon. Plus, check out the degree of the slant on the breast pocket....not quite the curved smile I've seen on other suits, but still a noticeable touch.

What I really like about this suit are the sharp points formed by the lapels. They don't curve up so much as they jut out. This is complimented by the space formed between the lapel and collar. To top it off, rope shoulders.

What I don't dig so much is the button placement, I would imagine that the top row of buttons would have been spaced a little further out to balance out the bottom four. Excellent choice of color for the buttons though.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

About bespoke or RTW?

In relation to the photos I posted, I think bespoke would be the thing to talk about.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Marc, the cashmere fabric seems quite thick and scratchy, almost twill-like.

The photos are misleading. In fact, this cashmere feels extremely soft to the touch, like a pure cashmere blanket or scarf.


The woman who sold me this piece had also found an identical Twyeffort cashmere sportcoat in cranberry red (made for the same original owner). Unfortunately, I didn't nab it on time. Both sportcoats had recently been deaccessioned from a museum.

 

[skyvue]

My vintage clothes are of the mass-market RTW variety, and I have little to offer in a thread such as this. But I'll be reading avidly, believe me.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

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You know who would have a lot to say? Art Fawcett. As a very well-regarded vintage clothing merchant, he had suits like these pass through his hands. Art? Please?

 

[thunderw21]

I appreciate your continuing effort to bring learning back the way it use to be on the Lounge, Marc. I've always considered this to be a place of learning.

But I've been more and more turned off by it lately. We've had this discussion before: eventually a member goes from excited student to worn down teacher, repeating the same old things. I've done both and have become weary of them.

The last straw, for me, was seeing an amazing and rarely seen piece of vintage receive discrediting comments (from this and other forums). Going out of my way to show a rare piece of vintage only to be shot down by folks who have pre-concieved notions of what vintage should be isn't what I care to do in my spare time. I love vintage but pretty much just lurk anymore. I've always thought the suit section is the most interesting yet least appreciated on the Lounge.

I'm a bit discouraged seeing the constant flow of the same old questions that a simple search could answer while being 'scolded' for not buying a dozen different items that sold for 'cheap' (as someone paying for a wedding nothing can be too cheap ), among other things. I'm also afraid that the good vintage pieces might be drying up in my area: I haven't seen a pre-1960s suit for less than $200 in the last year or so. But like I said, all this has been discussed in length in the past.



Marc, I sure hope your injection of great new vintage pieces into this thread has the desired effect, I'm always up for learning something new. You've been a good teacher over the years, hopefully you'll get the chance to once again be the student.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

.

... hopefully you'll get the chance to once again be the student.

You understand, Thunder! Yes, a kindred spirit. I've always considered you one of the handful that has so much to offer ... and has offered a heck of a lot, without expecting anything back but a measure of respect. From what I've heard from some 'disappeared' Loungers, your words above speak for them.

 

[Guttersnipe]

Here's a fairly typical Bold Look suit. The three things to note about this suit are the uncommon style belt loops, really flashy fabric, and that it's a dated, most likely made-to-measure, piece.

Yes, those pinstripes are indeed salmon pink . . .

The label read James Lumbard (?) 11/24/50. Note the "JL" monogram in the picture above

Notice the super wide belt loop on the left side

 

[Guttersnipe]

Here's a spiffy "fancy back" by English American Tailoring Company, Inc. of Baltimore MD, who are still in business. They actually own Hickey Freeman and a few other brands too, I believe.

The edging is a nice detail

Two-button cuffs are somewhat unusual, but were a staple of English-American (as future posts of other suits shall show . . .)

Made for the awesomely named Mr. J Savage; dated March 24, 1942

Monogrammed for ole JS

inside construction details of the pleated belt-back

Underarm sweat guard, which I thought was worth noting because I don't always see them on vintage suits

Several things are worth noting here; first the trousers are flat-fronted, second the curved diagonal pockets. Both are features I've seen on other British-American suits

 

[Guttersnipe]

Lastly this detail on rear most belt loop (directly opposite to the trousers' fly) is another feature I've seen on multiple British-American suits of this era

 

[Tomasso]

English American Tailoring Company......They actually own Hickey Freeman

It's the other Freeman. And the star of the stable is Oxxford.......

http://www.iagfinancial.com/contact.asp

 

[Nick D]

Some thoughts about this lining. The strips covering the side darts are interesting, presumably the tailor could have bound the edges just as well, since the binding appears very fine elsewhere. Perhaps the lining was used to conceal a pocket stay? Pockets which are cut into the fabric usually require some sort of stay, and I've seen a few with skeleton linings which have exposed stays. The thing is, generally the stay is at the end of the pocket angling towards the side seam, though the location here could still prevent sagging.

Concerning the side seam, it appears that both seam allowances are folded towards the back and bound together. Can you tell me if the seam was pressed open, and then the front allowance folded back? It seems to me that would still allow for a cleanly pressed seam, instead of a welted seam if they were both simply pressed towards the back.

These are the things that have been interesting me lately, the tailoring and construction details. I'm about to start my third jacket, and I want the construction to be as accurate as the style.