Aero? Simmons Bilt? Looking for my "Forever Leather Jacket"

[Chilliwack]

I think it depends how you carry your weight.
When i bought most of my jackets i was around 78kg/171lb, i am now closer to 88kg/195kg and all but a couple that where already on the tight side still fit me perfectly fine. But, i really spread the weight all over my body.
For me 20lb doesn't make a difference in how things fit on my upper body, but i know that's not how every body works.

I did a double take when you said "195 kg" until I realized you meant pounds! XD
"Bro, you have more important things to worry about than fashion!"

But yeah. I think at heavier weights, like, when you graduate from "pudgy" to "fat" as I have, most of the size difference comes from the belly and waist. The midsection. Obviously some fat can accumulate at the chest in that dreaded way, but not nearly to the extent that the belly grows. But like you said, not every body works exactly the same.

 

[jacketjunkie]

Where you store fat is genetics but also body height should not be underestimated either. 10 lbs of fat evenly distributed over a 6‘2“ frame show much less than 10 lbs of fat evenly distributed over a 5‘7“ frame. Consequently it affects sizing differently too.

@Chilliwack Good luck on your weight loss journey! My best advice is switching to drinking only water, coffee and milk. People consume insane amounts of calories and sugar just by drinking juice, coke, etc. If you cut down on sweets on top of that and don‘t fry everything you eat, you should lose weight rapidly. It‘s all about finding a diet you can comfortably live with for the rest of your life, if you go too hard, you just relapse eventually.

 

[TheDonEffect]

Eh, both makers have produced great products with some misses sprinkled in, some more egregious than others.

There is history with SB for sure, that's a personal decision you need to make, it doesn't bother me as much as SB saying Oakland, CA on the tag, and as a proud town native, that rubs me the wrong way more than anything else, lol.

GL with the one forever jacket thing, imo best way to do achieve this unicorn is trying on as many jackets as possible and buying accordingly.

Reason I say this is because even if you get a one off bespoke jacket, you may not get an ideal fit. Fact is, most people don't know what they want. For instance, you may get a fully tailor fit jacket (think Connor McGregor style suits) but realize you cannot move. Or you later realize you prefer a different style, etc.

I started this journey with bespoke, stiff leather jackets, because forever right. But then I realized my bro who beats the absolute hell out of his OTR Kenneth Cole lambskin jacket for the past going on three decades still looks great, and even though it's oversized the fact that it drapes creates a more flattering look than having a trim fit stiff leather and rounds everything out.

And with leather jackets, there's a good amount of variance, millimeter here and there makes a big difference, so even OTR not all are the same. Sometimes I wish I bought that Schott Raven I tried on many years ago because it just hit right.

So now I spec softer leather with good drape, and go for a more relaxed fit.

But to answer your question, I'd go with Aero, imo they're a legend despite the criticisms you may read here and elsewhere. Places like Thurston Bros can make the whole process enjoyable.

Try on a bunch of jackets to evaluate which styles resonate with you, and then focus on the leather types.

 

[Aloysius]

Reason I say this is because even if you get a one off bespoke jacket, you may not get an ideal fit. Fact is, most people don't know what they want. For instance, you may get a fully tailor fit jacket (think Connor McGregor style suits) but realize you cannot move. Or you later realize you prefer a different style, etc.

This is really critical. Leather is different from tailoring in this respect (to an extent; obviously if you have the shoulders of a size 46 and the body of a 42 like Carlos you need a customized pattern). Everyone looks better in a bespoke suit or coat, compared to a ready to wear one. Leather is different because the material itself molds and provides drape. Asymmetries that would need a different construction in tailoring simply shape out of the way, when it comes to leather.

The vast majority of body types are best suited to a stock pattern from an established, somewhat mainstream maker. (And yes, I'm ruling out the $2/3k plus jackets someone was pushing in this thread, earlier; few of them are as grab and go universal as the jackets from more mainstream makers.)

 

[TheDonEffect]

This is really critical. Leather is different from tailoring in this respect (to an extent; obviously if you have the shoulders of a size 46 and the body of a 42 like Carlos you need a customized pattern). Everyone looks better in a bespoke suit or coat, compared to a ready to wear one. Leather is different because the material itself molds and provides drape. Asymmetries that would need a different construction in tailoring simply shape out of the way, when it comes to leather.

The vast majority of body types are best suited to a stock pattern from an established, somewhat mainstream maker. (And yes, I'm ruling out the $2/3k plus jackets someone was pushing in this thread, earlier; few of them are as grab and go universal as the jackets from more mainstream makers.)

Yup, consider that when getting a bespoke suit made, with nice wool material, which is far more forgiving than leather especially the leather like CXL, even then the tailor will have multiple fittings to get the fit right. As such, the engineering/geometry of a leather jacket is even more crucial to have a flattering fit with functionality. This design gets convoluted when going bespoke.

As such, makers will take that into account when making their jackets based on their styles, functionality, and leather used.

Fortunately for the OP, Aero doesn't do full custom, probably for these reasons, and will only make minor adjustments, and with stockists like Thurston you could try before you commit.

 

[Dbrn]

Very late to this discussion, but as a fellow northern Canadian (Edmonton) with a Hooch Hauler, I'd like to contribute.

Ditto to 0 quality leather jackets within driving distance. Vancouver seems the closest.

I joined this forum about 3 years ago with the same idea as you - 1 forever jacket - but was focused on Aero. It's a great community with a variety of opinions and decades worth of experience - so it's a great resource. But it can be overwhelming at times when first joining. 3 years later, I have a much better overall understanding of everyone else's expertise. Between their experiences and my own, I'll echo what someone else has already said: unless you have many horshoes in your orifices, you won't score your forever jacket on the first try. It's sad but true. That's not a reason not to get a jacket you want, but taking that message seriously will help you live with it for as long as possible.

My HH is my only "serious" jacket. Mine is brown CXL FQHH, and you can see pictures of it (and many other HHs on a thread started by Canuck Panda a few months back. I outlined the pros and cons in fair detail there, as did others, so I strongly encourage you to search for that thread. Overall, most (not all) people find this jacket (and many Aeros) sit on the neck more than the shoulders, making it relatively uncomfortable for long wears. Again, not a reason not to get one, just information.

I'd strongly recommend you pay for the shipping involved in getting a fit jacket from Thurston (unless that Canadian stockist now offers this option, which it didn't 3 years ago). Much as my fit isn't perfect, it would have been far worse without a fit jacket and Carrie's recommendations based on my pictures. I'd also encourage you to ask about all the alterations you can think of, because Carrie didn't suggest some that, as a result, I didn't realize were possible at the time.

I'm happy I got my HH and like many things about. But it's the kind of thing that, if you get it and stay on the forum, eventually you'll see all kinds of things you want to try instead. It's not bad, just life.

I'm sure the same will go no matter what supplier/ price point you go with. Just don't let perfect stop you from investing in good!

And yeah, wait till you know the actual dimensions you'll be.

 

[El Marro]

I'll echo what someone else has already said: unless you have many horshoes in your orifices, you won't score your forever jacket on the first try. It's sad but true. That's not a reason not to get a jacket you want, but taking that message seriously will help you live with it for as long as possible.

This is a really good point and I had to buy at least four custom jackets before I embraced it as the truth.
Not to say that it is true for everyone. I can think of a few members who have spent a brief time on the lounge, asking questions, taking notes, and have then managed to score themselves the one jacket they were after. Those members usually disappear after that Is accomplished.
But for me, and for many others here, there will never be one perfect jacket because no sooner has one jacket arrived and then I am already thinking about what will come next.
Once I accepted this I began to appreciate each of my jackets for their strengths rather than critiquing them for their flaws that kept them from being the “perfect” One.

 

[navetsea]

even if someone got a rabbit paw and horseshoe and lucky hat in one soul and do score a perfect jacket on first try, they see it that way only for so long before wanting something else if they hang around.

 

[MrProper]

What is already forever?
Tastes and styles change, purposes change, some people's stature changes, others' climatic conditions change, and so on. Such points alone seem to speak against a "forever" jacket.
And then there is the fact that who wants to look the same every day? There may be some, but they are certainly not members of this forum lol.
All of these points keep my inner minimalist from breaking out.
"Forever" in terms of durability? Almost any good quality garment can do that.
In that respect, my tip is to buy what you like today and don't waste a thought on tomorrow.

 

[navetsea]

What is already forever?
Tastes and styles change, purposes change, some people's stature changes, others' climatic conditions change, and so on. Such points alone seem to speak against a "forever" jacket.
And then there is the fact that who wants to look the same every day? There may be some, but they are certainly not members of this forum lol.
All of these points keep my inner minimalist from breaking out.
"Forever" in terms of durability? Almost any good quality garment can do that.
In that respect, my tip is to buy what you like today and don't waste a thought on tomorrow.

You will never outgrow a dad style soft nappa pigskin leather blouson i think for like 88% of men who own 1 leather jacket their entire life this is usually the type they own also bought 1 size up in medium or dark brown...

 

[TartuWolf]

Overall, most (not all) people find this jacket (and many Aeros) sit on the neck more than the shoulders, making it relatively uncomfortable for long wears.

Just wondering - has anyone ever asked Aero directly about this and received an answer from them regarding what is the main reasoning for this phenomenon from their perspective and how can it be avoided?
My best guess would be not enough shoulder slope? I had the impression that slimmer models like HH suffer from this less than boxier ones.

I'd also encourage you to ask about all the alterations you can think of, because Carrie didn't suggest some that, as a result, I didn't realize were possible at the time.

At least get the kevlar/leather/strong fabric strip at the bottom hem.

 

[Aloysius]

Just wondering - has anyone ever asked Aero directly about this and received an answer from them regarding what is the main reasoning for this phenomenon from their perspective and how can it be avoided?
My best guess would be not enough shoulder slope? I had the impression that slimmer models like HH suffer from this less than boxier ones.

At least get the kevlar/leather/strong fabric strip at the bottom hem.

Certain patterns seem to bring it out more than others. I do think to an extent there’s a misalignment between the wearer’s size/shape and the jacket that causes this. But certain patterns like the Board Racer (shared with Ridley) don’t seem to exhibit it on anyone. Likewise the historical repro models like Indian Ranger or the military jackets don’t seem to cause it either.

In my case, I’ve never had the lines on an Aero but have had them on jackets from other makes, which is what makes me feel it’s a pattern/body shape disparity.

 

[Will Zach]

What is already forever?

A Perfecto style. Pretty much guaranteed "forever".

 

[Edward]

The body length of this 'motorcycle jacket' is waaaay too long imo.

Yes, to my eye too. This is a style on which 'too long' will be obvious very, very quickly if not properly proportioned. My Johnson D-pocket is noticeably longer than my 618, side by side, but the proportions seem to have been done correctly - it doesn't look too long. A few years ago, when a variation on this P-style was last fashionable in the UK, I saw many examples on the street that looked to be very overlong. Similar to the contemporary run on a type III denim a jacket - about four or five inches below the belt. I assume in part this is a reaction to the absurdly low "waist"bands on seemingly all trousers these days, but to my eye it totally ruins the line of the jacket. Same with so many cafe racer styles around now that look like one of the Pharaohs from American Graffiti had his club jacket made up in leather...

Less ethical customs declarations - they will undervalue their product so you don’t pay any import duties.

Ethical choices remain those involved in the contract's own. From a purely practical point of view, it's worth bearing in mind the risk factor on this. If it is challenged by customs, it can be interpreted as a deliberate attempt to defraud the tax authorities. The other key risk is that if anything does get lost in the post, you can only claim compensation for the amount declared.

On the topic of weight loss, how many sizes can you go really down? Specifically, if you have broad shoulders naturally, wouldn't that stay relatively close regardless of weight (unless you pack lot of muscle on the delts)?

I was wondering that myself because I'm in the middle of losing some weight but I feel like a size 44 on the shoulders still usually feels "right" for me.

Cheers!

I think it depends how you carry your weight.
When i bought most of my jackets i was around 78kg/171lb, i am now closer to 88kg/195Lb and all but a couple that where already on the tight side still fit me perfectly fine. But, i really spread the weight all over my body.
For me 20lb doesn't make a difference in how things fit on my upper body, but i know that's not how every body works.

Entirely about body shape. weight, I agree. Sometimes there's a bit of wriggle room around sizing (I can vary in Aero patterns between a 42 and 46, model, and 'era' depending), but at a certain point there definitely are jackets from any brand that just won't work for certain shapes. Similar to the old notion of radically downsizing a Highwayman to get a snug fit. It becomes a round hole / square peg thing.

 

[Canuck Panda]

Late to the party. Holiday chores.

@Chilliwack

Shipping the jacket back to UK cost about C$150. Factor this in. By buying direct you’d still end up ahead. You won’t have to pay HST on the exchange jacket.

There are two Aeros on the stock page that could work as your fit jacket. Unfortunately neither of them are CXL.

I know neither of them are Hooch Haulers but the torso dims (drop ratio) will be very similar to the Hooch. Either these two jacket could help dial your fit in for the custom Hooch.

I’ve got a handful of jackets from both brands. Quality is on par. The difference is in their leather options. And since I’ve only done exchange with Aero and not SB I’m recommending Aero for this reason alone.

On the Hooch you can also ask for a slight front drop it helps with the belly size change during the holidays.

Good luck!

 

[Aloysius]

Late to the party. Holiday chores.

@Chilliwack

Shipping the jacket back to UK cost about C$150. Factor this in. By buying direct you’d still end up ahead. You won’t have to pay HST on the exchange jacket.

There are two Aeros on the stock page that could work as your fit jacket. Unfortunately neither of them are CXL.

View attachment 475120
View attachment 475121

I know neither of them are Hooch Haulers but the torso dims (drop ratio) will be very similar to the Hooch. Either these two jacket could help dial your fit in for the custom Hooch.

I’ve got a handful of jackets from both brands. Quality is on par. The difference is in their leather options. And since I’ve only done exchange with Aero and not SB I’m recommending Aero for this reason alone.

On the Hooch you can also ask for a slight front drop it helps with the belly size change during the holidays.

Good luck!

These will not fit. 1930s cut runs small at the hem. Our friend would need the 50s cut jackets like the Highwayman.

Jerky is like a midweight British CXL so that's a bonus actually especially at bigger sizes.

This CXL 48 Highwayman I linked earlier would work. And it'll still look good when he drops weight because the jacket is designed to drape and have a certain boxiness.

 

[Canuck Panda]

These will not fit. 1930s cut runs small at the hem. Our friend would need the 50s cut jackets like the Highwayman.

Jerky is like a midweight British CXL so that's a bonus actually especially at bigger sizes.

This CXL 48 Highwayman I linked earlier would work. And it'll still look good when he drops weight because the jacket is designed to drape and have a certain boxiness.

Size 42 1930's HB has a drop 4 ratio from chest to hem, with an extra inch pinch at the waist, making the jacket ") (" shape. Same with size 42 Hooch Hauler, except the Hooch is one size slimmer throughout than the 1930s cut HB with higher armholes.
Size 40 Highwayman has same drop 4 ratio from chest to hem, but it is \ / shaped and no pinch at the waist. And mid armholes like the 1930s cut. So basically size 40 Highwayman is very close to size 42 1930s HB, but no pinch at the waist (belly button area).

If the OP finds that the size 48 30s HB fits, then he'd just order a size 50 Hooch with adjusted sleeve and back length. If too tight, then he needs size 52 Hooch.

Size 42 30s cut HB, size 48 is three sizes up (+3")

Size 42 Hooch Hauler (1" slimmer throughout than the jacket above) And higher armholes, so it works.

Size 40 Highwayman - No pinch at the waist, more straight \ / and not ) (

The ") (" half belt cuts will work for OP in the right size.

 

[Aloysius]

That wouldn’t work at all, and you’re proving my point.

The 30s cuts have a hem of ~2” less than the tagged chest size. His waist is about 53”, whereas a size 48 30s cut will have 52” chest and 46” waist. This would be unwearable.

 

[Motocann]

This is one helluva feed. I’m curious if you came to any conclusions or determined what jacket to buy from the information presented here?

I think all the points were covered.
The only suggestion I would make is if you could somehow manage to try on a bunch of jackets- then you would know what jacket works the best for your particular body and what looks good on you.

Aero vs Simmons… I personally like the Simmons Bilt jacket on me. I find the Aero jackets to have extra material through the back and shoulders, that doesn’t look good on my frame. But, that’s just me. Others seem to look great in their Aero jackets.

Again, I’d be curious to hear if you came to a decision or if you just gave up. It can be challenging trying to find your “one and only” favorite jacket.

 

[Aloysius]

Aero vs Simmons… I personally like the Simmons Bilt jacket on me. I find the Aero jackets to have extra material through the back and shoulders, that doesn’t look good on my frame. But, that’s just me. Others seem to look great in their Aero jackets.

I'm not saying this to rehash the whole history but given that Simmons Bilt jackets use Aero patterns, I think you're essentially comparing different models/sizes. There isn't a "Simmons Bilt fit" except for them changing some of the size labels resulting in things like a size 38 jacket with a 44" waist.