Aero? Simmons Bilt? Looking for my "Forever Leather Jacket"

[TartuWolf]

Maybe it'd be wise to check the history of Schott and the difference between Schott and the outsourced European "Schott"

Those jackets are really crappy, they're made under license for the European market. Indeed best to steer away from those.

To me this already begs the question - do you want a jacket from a maker that has the kind of business model that is completely fine with producing cheap shit and sending it abroad?

Personally I don't want to jump over hoops to try to distinguish a good / real "Schott" for the ton of crap they produce.
I'd rather buy from a maker that takes pride in the things they make and only make good stuff.

Don't get me wrong, I do believe that there are incredible Schott jackets out there, especially from the older days. But considering what Schott CURRENTLY is, I would not want to deal with them or buy anything from them.

So in terms of Schott - only used would be an option.

 

[Chilliwack]

To me this already begs the question - do you want a jacket from a maker that has the kind of business model that is completely fine with producing cheap shit and sending it abroad?

Personally I don't want to jump over hoops to try to distinguish a good / real "Schott" for the ton of crap they produce.
I'd rather buy from a maker that takes pride in the things they make and only make good stuff.

Don't get me wrong, I do believe that there are incredible Schott jackets out there, especially from the older days. But considering what Schott CURRENTLY is, I would not want to deal with them or buy anything from them.

So in terms of Schott - only used would be an option.

I think this is kinda how Doc Martens went from a good quality boot to "fast fashion."

 

[TartuWolf]

And that's why I would never want to buy or deal with Doc Martens either To me they and Schott are in a similar category.
But take anything I say with a grain of salt, as I'm rather a noob in the Jacket world (and most things in life).

 

[Carlos840]

And that's why I would never want to buy or deal with Doc Martens either To me they and Schott are in a similar category.
But take anything I say with a grain of salt, as I'm rather a noob in the Jacket world (and most things in life).

You make a lot of claims for a self confessed noob...

 

[TartuWolf]

@Carlos840
Which claim did I make that is blatantly false? Most of what I wrote are opinions.

 

[navetsea]

I think a forever jacket if you really want to settle into one jacket, then it should be a jacket that you would wear all the time in the rain or shine, a jacket in a quality range that you feel as the real deal yet you don't feel the need to baby it. it would be a waste if you have something that you personally feel too expensive to wear around casually or made in a leather type that is either sensitive to water staining, premature fading or scratches unless you are into fading leather and heavy characters that can stomach black jacket turning brown in real time, some can some can not.

forever jacket is a self commitment, has nothing to do with the object, you can have just off the rack jacket like schott that you love so much and wear all the time after sometime it will crease and sag and look like old friend that you would never sell or you might end up with tailor perfect jacket in world's best leather that looks like million bucks but in the end sitting in the hanger all the time because you feel it too special or too attention seeking to wear casually, everybody has different tolerance and feel toward things so only you can make judgement.

But if I would turn off my logic and just to follow my heart, and if I have the budget to splurge on, I would pick Thedi since I love curving hem and dual zips

 

[Carlos840]

@Carlos840
Which claim did I make that is blatantly false? Most of what I wrote are opinions.

I never said anything about false claims, just saying you have a lot of opinions for someone who admits not knowing much on the subject.

For example differentiating between "good" and "bad" Schotts can seem like jumping through hoops if you know nothing about Schott... It doesn't take much to learn how to differentiate them, but you seem to think that disregarding Schott altogether is a better way of doing things.

 

[Chilliwack]

I need to sleep now, but please don't fight.

This thread has been extremely helpful so far in many ways.

 

[TartuWolf]

@Carlos840
Sorry if I come off a cocky or rude to you, that's not my intention. But I do have my opinions on some things and they can change with time, I'm not rigid.
Like I said several times, I think there are fine Schott jackets out there, especially used / older ones. I don't know enough about Schott at the moment to distinguish easily. But I have a distaste for the brand itself for the reasons I mentioned and therefore don't have motivation to spend my time researching the nuances that would help me identify gems. If I would come across something that I really liked in my size I would spend my time on that research, ask around in this forum. But for now my time is better spent elsewhere.
And yes, I do think disregarding NEW Schott jackets altogether is good way of doing things, for the reasons I mentioned. But it's rather a matter of values / principle, not so much a comment on the quality of their high end stuff.
Stuff like this does look amazing : http://afine-toothcomb.blogspot.com/2016/03/in-review-schott-619-hand-oiled.html

Big respect to you @Carlos840 , no bad vibes

 

[Edward]

If suggested, I could just hold off on asking questions until I reach my target weight.

Never hurts to have a look at what's available, though I certainly wouldn't commit to buying anything ahead of getting to the other end. I lost a significant amount of weight last year after years of being heavier than I wanted to be. I still have a couple of things I held onto that it looks like I won't get into now; I also ended up selling on a couple of bits as it became apparent that I has shrunk past them faster than anticipated and they were never worn.

 

[Marc mndt]

Stuff like this does look amazing : http://afine-toothcomb.blogspot.com/2016/03/in-review-schott-619-hand-oiled.html

The body length of this 'motorcycle jacket' is waaaay too long imo.

 

[Aloysius]

Regarding Schott.. It's a huge enterprise. Massive production quantities. They produce everything from crappy mall jackets to pieces that cost over 1500+. The used marked is flooded with crazy numbers of Schott jackets all the time. I hang out in "Vinted" a lot and see so many Schott jackets coming in all sizes all the time that it's unbelievable. And 95% of the time they are just super generic biker jackets. Not even gonna mention all the non-leather crap they produce. I could talk about it a lot more, but you get the point. I really don't want to spend my money on that kind of maker. Manufacturers like Aero and SB are on a completely different scale, business model, quality, etc.. Would much rather deal with them than ever have to have any communication with Schott.

You have no idea what you’re talking about. At most charitable, I’d say you’re thinking of the French company that licensed Schott’s name in Europe. At worst I’d say you’re blatantly making things up.

Schott is not leather Nike, as you’re implying. It’s one building in an industrial era with a factory and office. Most people who work there have been doing so for ages and it’s directly owned and managed by the family who founded it.

They’re so directly involved that when someone was buying damaged jackets in the factory sale (at a huge mark down as you can imagine), Jason Schott went ahead, took the jacket to the factory area, and replaced the damaged parts for him.

The closest comparison is Aero after a few generations’ head start.

 

[Aloysius]

Hmmm....... Yeah that all makes sense, I can definitely understand where you're coming from in regards to Schott.
Still, I guess that means there would be LOTS more choice in the second-hand market, if you just don't want to support them!

And yeah I'm not a fan of "crumpled" looking leather either. But maybe it looks better in person than it does in photos?

Ignore him. The fake European Schotts don’t exist in North America, and his characterization of the company has no basis in reality.

 

[Aloysius]

To me this already begs the question - do you want a jacket from a maker that has the kind of business model that is completely fine with producing cheap shit and sending it abroad?

Personally I don't want to jump over hoops to try to distinguish a good / real "Schott" for the ton of crap they produce.
I'd rather buy from a maker that takes pride in the things they make and only make good stuff.

Don't get me wrong, I do believe that there are incredible Schott jackets out there, especially from the older days. But considering what Schott CURRENTLY is, I would not want to deal with them or buy anything from them.

So in terms of Schott - only used would be an option.

They don’t “produce” European Schott… the European company does…

The difference between the two is obvious at a glance.

I don’t think the Schott family should be blamed for accepting a licensee. Lee did that in Japan which resulted in the excellent Lee Archives brand produced by Edwin. Unfortunately they didn’t know that unlike the Japanese amekaji style, European Americana is about logos.

What Schott “currently is”? Modern Schotts are better made than the vintage models. (I have and like both.)

 

[TartuWolf]

Hey, I can only talk about the Schott jackets that I've ever seen. And they bear the official Schott name. That is the Schott I would never recommend or deal with. Can't comment on anything in the US.

 

[Carlos840]

Hey, I can only talk about the Schott jackets that I've ever seen. And they bear the official Schott name. That is the Schott I would never recommend or deal with. Can't comment on anything in the US.

You said yourself you didn't know how to differentiate them...

How many Schott jackets have you handled?

 

[TartuWolf]

I've handled quite a few in various shops in Europe, never bought one.
Enjoy the view:
https://www.vinted.fr/vetements?catalog[]=2052&brand_id[]=3799

Honestly I'm a bit surprised by the response. Like I'm violating some kind of holy truth that can't be touched. In your eyes maybe only the incredible American Schott exists. I have experience with the European production. In my eyes they both exist and are both "Schott" products. I think we can say US Schott = good, EU Schott = bad and leave it at that.

 

[Carlos840]

I've handled quite a few in various shops in Europe, never bought one.
Enjoy the view:
https://www.vinted.fr/vetements?catalog[]=2052&brand_id[]=3799

I see a good 20 pages of quality American made classic jackets, what is your point?

 

[Marc mndt]

I've handled quite a few in various shops in Europe, never bought one.
Enjoy the view:
https://www.vinted.fr/vetements?catalog[]=2052&brand_id[]=3799

Try this one and report back about the quality of Schott.

You'd be hard pressed to find a better jacket for €450

https://www.vinted.nl/heren/kleding...otor-en-racejassen/2494312113-perfecto-schott

 

[TartuWolf]

@Carlos840
I see a 100 pages of mall jackets with a few good/decent leather jackets here and there.
Okay we have good off topic enough. Sorry about even mentioning Schott in this thread, MY BAD.