Aero leather water resistance

[Lean'n'mean]

Aero FQHH does not have a "coating".

You haven't been paying attention have you .......as I have already stated untreated leather is not naturally water repellant, be it cowhide, goat, sheep, pig, roo, what ever, it is only the post tanning processes that will give leather a certain water repellancy. Now for water to bead, the leather surface has received a coating of some kind, this doesn't mean a 'coat' of paint or varnish but a surface application of unsoluble dye or wax of some kind.
Leather good manufacturers, don't usually treat the leather themselves but receive it already finished from the tanning factories or from where ever they procure their leather.
This 'coating' does break down over time, particularly where the leather frequently folds or is under tensile pressure

 

[Sloan1874]

I recall Skip at Horween showing me the staff applying a top coat, and telling me that they could vary the coating's 'fastness', so that the ageing process could be accelerated or slowed as per desire. [huh]

 

[Lean'n'mean]

This is not correct. For example, aniline leathers are used all the time for shoe manufacture

I've never had any footwear in analine leather, they would certainly be out of my price range & would be trashed in less than a day. I wouldn't say "they are used all the time" though, it is a luxury material.

.[/QUOTE]


.

Hot stuffed, heavily waxed infused leathers are very durable even with aniline dye.

That kinda defeats the object of anline leather.

 

[Lean'n'mean]

I recall Skip at Horween showing me the staff applying a top coat, and telling me that they could vary the coating's 'fastness', so that the ageing process could be accelerated or slowed as per desire. [huh]

I don't suppose you remember what product they were using ? I don't know Horween, but sounds an intersting place, were they treating all their stuff or proofing/ reproofing a customer's coat?

 

[pawineguy]

You haven't been paying attention have you .......as I have already stated untreated leather is not naturally water repellant, be it cowhide, goat, sheep, pig, roo, what ever, it is only the post tanning processes that will give leather a certain water repellancy. Now for water to bead, the leather surface has received a coating of some kind, this doesn't mean a 'coat' of paint or varnish but a surface application of unsoluble dye or wax of some kind.
Leather good manufacturers, don't usually treat the leather themselves but receive it already finished from the tanning factories or from where ever they procure their leather.
This 'coating' does break down over time, particularly where the leather frequently folds or is under tensile pressure

Paying attention to you? I know who would be applying the coating to the leather, when one is applied. Again, your notion that aniline leathers are by definition not waterproof or durable is demonstrably false. Horween, for example, sells 6 leathers that are aniline AND waterproof.

Many of the boots that people discuss on this board are made from Chromexcel leather. (aniline) They are prized for their look and their durability.

Again, you are focusing on the dye and ignoring the rest of the production process.

 

[pawineguy]

I recall Skip at Horween showing me the staff applying a top coat, and telling me that they could vary the coating's 'fastness', so that the ageing process could be accelerated or slowed as per desire. [huh]

If he was discussing "fastness" then it was part of the dye process. Because soluble dyes are just that, soluble, they have different levels of fastness which dictates how much they might bleed or wear off. In CXL, neatsfoot oil is the final step in the process.

 

[pawineguy]

I don't suppose you remember what product they were using ? I don't know Horween, but sounds an intersting place, were they treating all their stuff or proofing/ reproofing a customer's coat?

Haha, a leather expert that's never heard of Horween. We've all been trolled.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Lean'n'Mean is an expert on all leather P can't you tell from his tone? You need to listen.

 

[Sloan1874]

If he was discussing "fastness" then it was part of the dye process. Because soluble dyes are just that, soluble, they have different levels of fastness which dictates how much they might bleed or wear off. In CXL, neatsfoot oil is the final step in the process.

Sounds like it. A couple of years on from visiting Chicago, my memory was watching the guys applying the stuff to tanned skins, using a squeegee to spread it out and then giving it an even finish using cloths. I guess this would a sort of 'overdye' as you describe it.

 

[nick123]

I thought analine simply referred to no pigment added in the finishing process. Naked would be no finishing process at all, correct??

I know for sure a leather can be classified as analine even with the waterproofing. That's what Chris does with his Aerial Star jackets. My guess is a leather can also still be naked despite being treated with a waterproof.

Just speculating that there may be a difference between a water-repelling coat and a pigment coat. I think pigment in itself acts as a waterproof. Could be fos though!

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Yes....we all need to pay attention...damn it. lollol

 

[Monitor]

From what I've been told, aniline leather can be made water resistant, as opposed to waterproof on its own, by soaking it up with chemicals that would close the pores and basically cement the fibers from within. But without the top coat, some water will still find it's way inside. Lean'n'Mean is right, it's the top coat applied to the surface of the leather that truly waterproofs it. I know for a fact that without it, Aero's FQHH soaks up water - or any other liquid, leather lotions included - much faster. I've confirmed this myself.

 

[Lean'n'mean]

Haha, a leather expert that's never heard of Horween..

Expert ??? I may come across as a know all, but I am just a humble lover & crafter of leather. There are a lot of leather tanning companies I've never heard of, particularly in the states.

 

[pawineguy]

Expert ??? I may come across as a know all, but I am just a humble lover & crafter of leather. There are a lot of leather tanning companies I've never heard of, particularly in the states.

At last we finally agree on something.

 

[Edward]

From what I read, Brando's jacket was made by a now defunct leather jacket manufacturing company called Durable, and apparently, this is something that has been long suspected and well known among Japanese collectors - just that people who are in the know tend not to talk about it as they're afraid that releasing this bit of information in the wild would have a huge impact on any future sales of these jackets, as their value would undoubtedly skyrocket. Rightfully so as the effects of these speculations has already affected the prices of the jackets appearing on eBay, to some extent...

Jings, yes, that's a real issue. Funny how ebay makes some things suddenly more 'valuable', and others much less so (I've known collectables that were hen's teeth here drop dramatically in value once it became easy to pick them up from the US via eBay).

Related theory is that Schott at some point acquired the Durable company and possibly continued to produce the jacket by using the patterns originally made by Durable, which would make their claim that Brando wears a Schott Perfecto in The Wild One somewhat credible - at least in the legal context.

That would have some logical follow, even if tortured! Could also be Schott simply assumed it's one of theirs, as they claim to have invented the style in 1928 or so. Mind you, I'm not convinced their company history is much accurate, especially when you see the "original 1928" jacket they put out a couple of years ago, which looked like a very late 1940s D pocket. Lovely, but really not a 20s design...

All I know is that trying to find one of those Durable brand jackets on eBay is certainly not an easy task. XD

Love to see it if you do find one!

Nope, but I've done some serious research on Vicious' US Tour Perfecto jacket and I am fairly certain that Schott never produced the exact same take on the style - and if they did, they didn't stick by it for too long. I would bet my money on Sears.

Seems likely. I remember reading that Malcolm bought all the boys a leather jacket each for behaving themselves on a US radio interview during January '78; I doubt he'd have sprung for the Schotts if something half decent at half the price was readily available!

Agreed. Vicious' jacket will always be a LL Dominator.

:eusa_clap

I can understand your confusion & it may sound like a contradiction but good quality analine leathers are considered as the finest available. Since the grain surface isn't corrected by abrassion, dyes, embossing or protective coatings, only premium hides, with as few blemishes possible are selected for this treatment. What you have is a near perfect leather which is finished in the most natural way possible. But there are always disadvantages & because the leather's surface isn't protected nor strong chemical unsoluble dyes used, the leather does remain somewhat vulnerable..........if you have dogs or kids in the house, best to avoid analine & stick semi-analine, the next best thing.

Mn. I'm in a dog and child-free household - the cats, fortunately, only destroyed the sofa, leaving my jackets alone (though they like to sleep on 'em). Not a fan of anything that needs babied much, though, clothes-wise.

 

[pawineguy]

From what I've been told, aniline leather can be made water resistant, as opposed to waterproof on its own, by soaking it up with chemicals that would close the pores and basically cement the fibers from within. But without the top coat, some water will still find it's way inside. Lean'n'Mean is right, it's the top coat applied to the surface of the leather that truly waterproofs it. I know for a fact that without it, Aero's FQHH soaks up water - or any other liquid, leather lotions included - much faster. I've confirmed this myself.

Yes, but two different issues here. Issue one was if Aero's FQHH is top coated, and it's not. Issue two was whether something being aniline means it cannot be durable and waterproof / water resistant. Full grain, aniline leathers can be made this way via hot stuffing and other means of oil and wax permeation of the leather. Otherwise, as I've noted, no one would be making CXL boots.

 

[Lean'n'mean]

At last we finally agree on something.

That I'm humble, yes..

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Horween CXL

The key to Chromexcel unique feel is vegetable retanning, which enhances the benefits of chrome tanning while overcoming its drawbacks. It’s possible to make leather using vegetable tanning alone, and the result feels amazing, but using both – “combination tanning” – makes for a more durable end product. Horween use a carefully guarded blend of bark extracts for the retanning stage and the result is a soft but tough leather that’s returned to its natural color.

The process of giving Chromexcel its appearance and feel doesn't stop there though. Once it’s been retanned and dried it’s hot-stuffed to make sure it stays supple and waterproof, by impregnating the leather with natural oils and waxes. The exact mix is another of Horween's secrets but it includes tallow and beeswax. Of course it has changed slightly over the decades - Isadore Horween's original formula included whale oil, but that’s been replaced with an equivalent sustainable oil. The ingredients are solid at room temperature so they’re melted using steam coils, then the tanned hides are loaded into wooden drums and spun while the mixture is poured in.

Once the leather has been hot-stuffed it’s hung up to cool and air dry, which takes up to a week. Then it’s ready to be dyed. Chromexcel is colored by hand-rubbing with multiple coats of pigment. As well as giving it a deep, even color this contributes to its rich patina. Finally it’s dried again; now, at last, it’s ready to be used.

 

[pawineguy]

Horween CXL

The key to Chromexcel unique feel is vegetable retanning, which enhances the benefits of chrome tanning while overcoming its drawbacks. It’s possible to make leather using vegetable tanning alone, and the result feels amazing, but using both – “combination tanning” – makes for a more durable end product. Horween use a carefully guarded blend of bark extracts for the retanning stage and the result is a soft but tough leather that’s returned to its natural color.

The process of giving Chromexcel its appearance and feel doesn't stop there though. Once it’s been retanned and dried it’s hot-stuffed to make sure it stays supple and waterproof, by impregnating the leather with natural oils and waxes. The exact mix is another of Horween's secrets but it includes tallow and beeswax. Of course it has changed slightly over the decades - Isadore Horween's original formula included whale oil, but that’s been replaced with an equivalent sustainable oil. The ingredients are solid at room temperature so they’re melted using steam coils, then the tanned hides are loaded into wooden drums and spun while the mixture is poured in.

Once the leather has been hot-stuffed it’s hung up to cool and air dry, which takes up to a week. Then it’s ready to be dyed. Chromexcel is colored by hand-rubbing with multiple coats of pigment. As well as giving it a deep, even color this contributes to its rich patina. Finally it’s dried again; now, at last, it’s ready to be used.

See, even old guys like HD know how to use Google to find info instead of lecturing people!

 

[HoosierDaddy]

'Old guys'..I beg your pardon..:eusa_doh:
You may be paying too damn close attention now...