Adventurebilt order - slipped through the cracks?

[ehtyva]

But you assume that all of his customers are dissatisfied, which clearly is not the case.

Whether all of his customers are satisfied is sort of irrelevant. Taking someone's money without acknowledging that they actually will get a product at some point in the future and then never contacting them until it's ready is a bad business practice.

People just want some reassurance that the hard-earned money they spent was actually spent. As someone mentioned earlier, things DO get lost, and the fact that Steve isn't willing to so much as write you back to confirm just demonstrates poor business practices.

I don't know Steve at all and I've never talked to him, so I'm completely unbiased here. I understand that "that's the way it works," but it doesn't change the fact that it's wrong. If you're backed up a year, you should be able to afford to pay someone a small wage to organize the orders and respond to people asking for help. If you can't afford that, you have a year waiting list, and people are complaining, you're doing something wrong.

And now that I think about it...I don't remember his site saying anything about a year wait and I'm pretty sure it's illegal not to provide a product within a certain amount of time.

 

[Craig Robertson]

You guys are lucky...I ordered a custom built ukulele from a luthier in Maryland, and it took 2 years and three months to get it. I knew his wait list was that long. It was considerably more expensive than a custom hat and it was well worth the wait.
Getting anything made custom from a one person operation is going to take time.

Still, he should acknowledge orders. Common courtesy and good business.

 

[AlanC]

Yeah, prosecuting custom hatters is certainly what we need to start advocating on Fedora Lounge.

 

[Lefty]

Revolution is the result of the frustration of expectations.

That was the basis of my entire "political violence" course in college.

It's not about poor people wanting something.

They expect to have nothing.

It's about the middle class, who are used to having a little bit, having that little bit taken away.

Everyone is used to having at least a general idea of when they'll get what they've paid for, and then getting the item within that time. We're all used to communication from sellers if there is or is going to be a problem.

This may not be a revolution, but it sure seems to be a bit of an uprising.

I've had no dealings with AB, and am happy to be an independent bystander.

 

[Mark G]

Whether all of his customers are satisfied is sort of irrelevant. Taking someone's money without acknowledging that they actually will get a product at some point in the future and then never contacting them until it's ready is a bad business practice.

People just want some reassurance that the hard-earned money they spent was actually spent. As someone mentioned earlier, things DO get lost, and the fact that Steve isn't willing to so much as write you back to confirm just demonstrates poor business practices.

I don't know Steve at all and I've never talked to him, so I'm completely unbiased here. I understand that "that's the way it works," but it doesn't change the fact that it's wrong. If you're backed up a year, you should be able to afford to pay someone a small wage to organize the orders and respond to people asking for help. If you can't afford that, you have a year waiting list, and people are complaining, you're doing something wrong.

And now that I think about it...I don't remember his site saying anything about a year wait and I'm pretty sure it's illegal not to provide a product within a certain amount of time.

It's not illegal. Some of my luthier friends have a ten year waiting period. It's not the wait time, it's the lack of communication.

 

[AlanC]

Uprise all you want, but Steve has a year plus backlog of orders and is retiring in three years. Vive le revolucion.

 

[Lefty]

Not me.
I'm just sitting here watching the cars go by.

 

[MattJH]

Uprise all you want, but Steve has a year plus backlog of orders and is retiring in three years. Vive le revolucion.

A few questions for you, as you seem to have a positive relationship with Steve. How do you feel about his website not informing those who order of the wait they'll be expecting? How do you feel about his apparently common practice of not responding to correspondence from his customers? Regardless of your relationship with Steve, do you think that these concerns are a valid reason to discuss in a thread?

The reasons why I ask is because it seems (seems!) that you are being somewhat dismissive of the problems people are reporting with their orders, and it's curious.

 

[AlanC]

^Most of the people who seem to be complaining haven't ordered from him at all, best I can tell. Yes, he probably should mention the wait time, he probably should have someone fielding all the enquiries, etc.

But, if I was someone who came across the AB website and was considering dropping that much money I'd probably Google Adventurebilt to do some basic research. There I would find links to various places that would give me more information. I would likely find the Adventurebilt Story at Indygear. I would learn some about Steve being a one man show starting as an Indy hobbiest seeking to make hats for the fan community. I might then discover COW and the 'Wait Times' threads, etc. Too much work, perhaps? Maybe, and you can point out that Steve should cover all that himself on his site. But when I spend that kind of money, or even much less, I try to do some due diligence. Sometimes when I do that I think, 'hang that--not worth it for me.'

I've been open about the fact that I have an AB on order. I also ordered a second one earlier this year (a Traveler Gray) because I suspected if I didn't do it now I'd never be able to. I don't really know Steve other than through COW and via a few emails we've exchanged related to my order. But I respect his reputation built over a number of years, appreciate what he's done for fedora wearers by underpricing a 100% beaver felt custom made hat then offering that at a discount to COW and FL members for years. It was because he deliberately underpriced the hat so people could afford it that led to his huge backlog. Even when the news was out that he made the hats for the movie he still kept the discount price active until the movie came out. Because of all of that he's getting a lot of grief from people, many of whom haven't even ordered a hat from him.

Call me crazy, but I don't think he deserves that kind of treatment.

 

[Not-Bogart13]

A few questions for you, as you seem to have a positive relationship with Steve. How do you feel about his website not informing those who order of the wait they'll be expecting? How do you feel about his apparently common practice of not responding to correspondence from his customers? Regardless of your relationship with Steve, do you think that these concerns are a valid reason to discuss in a thread?

The reasons why I ask is because it seems (seems!) that you are being somewhat dismissive of the problems people are reporting with their orders, and it's curious.

I know this was not asked of me, but I'm pretty firmly in the pro-Steve camp, and I'd like to address it... and all the negative talk here.

It is easy to forget that Steve never intended to become a real business. He was just a fan helping out other fans. It just snowballed into this huge enterprise.

I do feel that some of the concerns expressed here are legitimate, but mainly for those who just bump into his website and say; "Ooo! I think I'll order a hat." Though, in this day and age, sending several hundred dollars to an internet business you know nothing about seems kind of dumb to me. I looked into Adventurebilt for months before ordering.

Aside from "blind customers," I have no sympathy. If you actually looked into Steve and his hats, or simply trolled the forums where he is known, you went in with full knowledge of what dealing with him entails. His habits and wait times may suck, but they are no secret. Plain and simple. There is no attempt to defraud, no unmet expectations. For most of Steve's customers, getting upset about these issues are like a weatherman being shocked and angry that a storm cloud dropped rain in his back yard. Seriously.

Yes, Steve needs to work on customer service and communication. He admits it himself. But his priority is making the hats. He doesn't make the kind of profit that allows hiring a book keeper. And messages do get lost in the shuffle. I have NEVER failed to get in touch with Steve with just a little well-measured persistence. I email him in 10-day intervals until I hear from him. Eventually, he sees my name enough and realizes it might be important enough to deal with now, not later. It just isn't that difficult to accomplish.

On a personal note: I sell on Ebay, and I have noticed that people in general have come to expect (without any real reason to) an update on every twitch related to their purchase. I guess it's a substitute for instant gratification. I remember the old ays, when I'd order a mail-in G.I. Joe figure and, if it didn't show up in 8 weeks... you just waited longer. [huh] No updates. No way to asked about progress. It arrived when it arrived.

OK, time to put my soap box away.

 

[Interbak]

I have to agree with Bogy. I read all the posts here and at COW for months before I decided on AB. This included inquires to other hatters mentioned here, one of which (who shall remain nameless) never responded at all. I sent my order via PayPal to AB and promptly received an email response requesting sizing info. Several months later I sent another email with questions regarding styling and dimensions, and again a quick response, within 24 hours. I'm at 8 months waiting now, and looking forward to having it in hand before the snow flies. Maybe I'm one of the lucky ones, but my experience has been pretty positive.

Brian

 

[AlanC]

It has been suggested that I have come across a little too strongly in this thread. My apologies for doing so as it was not my intent. My views about AB are what they are (and are what I've stated), but I'm not interested in being rude about it.

Carry on.

 

[univibe88]

Very gentlemanly of you Alan :eusa_clap

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. I, for one, certainly enjoyed reading both sides of this dicussion.

 

[MAB1]

I think that the advent of the Factory AB will calm the masses, of the faithful.
It's what's needed. Now, having said that... WHen are they gonna get cranked up?

 

[Not-Bogart13]

I think that the advent of the Factory AB will calm the masses, of the faithful.
It's what's needed. Now, having said that... WHen are they gonna get cranked up?

I believe the first batch hit the lines this month, then goes into regular production in September or something like that. The factory has some sort of "vacation" thing... sort of like Akubra does. Europeans... shakeshead

 

[ADHD librarian]

I, for one, certainly enjoyed reading both sides of this dicussion.

likewise.

 

[MAB1]

Hey, I didn't mean to bash the dude, in a personal sense.

But, when you're doing business and taking people's money... You'd best be on the ball.

Nobody can work 24hrs a day but... you get some help to do the little things and put your touch on it.

It's not rocket science.

I'm sure w/ the factory hat coming... he will be able to retire. And keep people hanging for customs, to boot.

He'd be better off making a few customs of different sizes. Put them on OFAS and let the faithful go at it.

But, I think that the AB factory will make him richer than he ever dreamed.

Who's gonna handle it?

 

[Shane]

It has been suggested that I have come across a little too strongly in this thread. My apologies for doing so as it was not my intent. My views about AB are what they are (and are what I've stated), but I'm not interested in being rude about it.

Carry on.

Thank you, Alan. I'm very glad you posted that. It seems (again, seems) sometimes that you're not allowed to have critical discussions of custom hatters (except Art, of course, I've never seen anyone say a cross word about his work). It would be terrible to not be able to have a meaningful discourse about a hatter on this forum. Just because the majority of posters approve of a vendor is not a valid reason to forgo a critical discussion.

 

[MattJH]

It has been suggested that I have come across a little too strongly in this thread. My apologies for doing so as it was not my intent.

I didn't think so. I like it when people sound off about something they feel passionate about. No problems here at all.

And I'll probably end up ordering a factory Adventurebilt when the time and money are right.

 

[Hugh Beaumont]

Yes, Steve needs to work on customer service and communication. He admits it himself. But his priority is making the hats. He doesn't make the kind of profit that allows hiring a book keeper. And messages do get lost in the shuffle. I have NEVER failed to get in touch with Steve with just a little well-measured persistence. I email him in 10-day intervals until I hear from him. Eventually, he sees my name enough and realizes it might be important enough to deal with now, not later. It just isn't that difficult to accomplish.

Sorry, he shouldn't be in business if he can't keep up with customer service. He owes that to his customers who are willing to wait for over a year for their hat. If he's not making the profit that is necessary to run a business, then again, he should not be doing it. Yes, people buy their hats knowing it will take over a year, but they also want communication in a timely manner.

People are pushed to airing out their frustration on public forums. That is not good. I know people who ordered their hats last year and were told they would have them by premiere of the new Indy movie and that came and went without a word from Steve. Emails unanswered. What are people supposed to do??? Steve is lucky people haven't filed mail fraud charges against him.