A question of ethics

[Baron Kurtz]

We have the power on land and in the sea if necessary. Not likely a shark is going to nail you in a boat or some such device that keeps you and them in separate quarters.

Have you not *seen* Jaws?

Real life, don't you know?

eh, what?

what?

bk

p.s. yer dog's story is covered by one of my many, many caveats (even by one that you quoted).

 

[jamespowers]

Have you not *seen* Jaws?

Real life, don't you know?

eh, what?

what?

bk

p.s. yer dog's story is covered by one of my many, many caveats (even by one that you quoted).

I stay out of the water and they stay off the land. We live together fine.
Any more caveats and you'll be writing a book.

Regards,

J

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Hmmm, A Caveat for all Occasions by B. Kurtz . . . hmm, you may just be on to something, there.

bk

 

[jamespowers]

Hmmm, A Caveat for all Occasions by B. Kurtz . . . hmm, you may just be on to something, there.

bk

Subtitled: Mr. Ed had a degree in biophysics.

Regards,

J

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Never seen it but that horse *could* talk, right?

See, real life again . . .

bk

There was a great parody on The Fast Show called "Mr. Dead". Basically a guy in a coffin propped up against the wall of a barn dispensing pointless, useless advice. Excellent . . .

 

[carebear]

I read (on Snopes?) that Mr. Ed, for several reasons, was a zebra or a donkey. Neither of which is a horse, of course.

 

[jamespowers]

Never seen it but that horse *could* talk, right?

See, real life again . . .

Any animal can talk with enough peanut butter. That's how Mr. Ed did it. I didn't even know horses liked peanut butter. [huh]

Regards,

J

 

[jamespowers]

I read (on Snopes?) that Mr. Ed, for several reasons, was a zebra or a donkey. Neither of which is a horse, of course.

They painted over the stripes?! That altered his appearance. Shocking!

Regards,

J

 

[Baron Kurtz]

I read (on Snopes?) that Mr. Ed, for several reasons, was a zebra or a donkey. Neither of which is a horse, of course.

Is that right? Interesting. As i say, i've never seen it . . .

Any animal can talk with enough peanut butter. That's how Mr. Ed did it. I didn't even know horses liked peanut butter. [huh]

Regards,

J

Skippy the Bush Kangaroo did it wit elastic bands behind the back teeth.

bk

 

[Hemingway Jones]

.

This is a very interesting question and I am glad it was brought up and the responses I have read are interesting and passionate.

Here's mine:

First off, no pure bred dog got that way by accident. Modern canines are genetically engineered animals created for human's amusement. That is a fact. It took many generations to produce what are now considered AKC breeds, and muts are some mix of these. They are all descendent from wolves.

And we all know what happens to the puppies that do not make the grade.

That being said, we have a responsibility, if we are fortunate enough to take one of these noble creatures on as part of a family to provide a wonderful life for them. It makes me crazy when I see a dog outside chained to a tree all day. That is a sad and lonely life for a dog.

I believe that at the point you purchase one of these amazing creatures, it is up to you to provide for it and to cherish each ephemeral moment you have with your beloved pet.

That being said, what about clipping ears and tails and whatnot? Personally, I wouldn't do it, but I would not oppose those who make a different choice. This is why. I think it is far more damaging to a pet to neglect it or to subject it to an uncomfortable existence by placing it into a confined quarters or chaining it in inclement weather than it is to clip its ears and subject it to a week or so of uncomfortableness. They Do give the dogs painkillers after all. I have had surgeries when I was young and the memory of them is lost. I would imagine that my powers of recall are longer than a dog's. I honestly don't think it affects them that much, and I know that there are benefits to some breeds; ear infection prevention for instance.

I think that people should be, and in most cases there are, given an informed choice. I think that most people would choose not to do so, and as society's ideas of pets and their roles in our lives evolve to bring them closer to a truly anthropomorphic place in our lives and homes, I think there will be enormous social pressure to not indulge in this sort of superfluous body modification or else less high maintenance breeds will be chosen.

Now personally, once again, I would never purchase a dog that needs to be modified. If society follows suit, then these breeds would either fall out of fashion or the AKC-suggested aesthetics would be discarded. It may become a niche practice.

My bottom line is that I don't believe it is unethical; society supports an owner's choice on how to maintain, i.e., modify their dog, but I believe, the popularity of the Kennel Club competitions notwithstanding, this perception will change, and it will become less and less fashionable to engage in superfluous modifications of breeds.

Dogs get to make few of their own choices. The ones I would make for mine would be to prevent her from as much harm as possible. I spent 12 1/2 years with my dog doing my best to keep her happy, healthy, and away from pain. Then, I had to make the ultimate choice to prevent her from feeling anymore pain, and without her consent, I might add; well, sort of, I truly believe I had it at the end.

Here is Carmina and I in happier days:



Dalmatians require no clipping. Though I could have saved thousands of dollars in nick-nacks, dinners, and crystal glasses if I had clipped that happy whipping tail of hers.

 

[Absinthe_1900]

My nine year old Boxer is cropped, the vet that I've used for him, and my last Boxer, (That made it to 12 yrs)
did both of my Boxers ears, plus he is a Boxer owner himself. (He cropped his own Boxer)

From the experience of my last two Boxers, they did not seem to be too troubled by the experience, and both were very problem free in getting the ears to stand up, with my current little monster having his ears stand up almost immediately. (But then Imp has never been normal )

Will I crop another Boxer? I seriously doubt it this time, as my Vet is getting up there, and I don't think I'd find another Vet as good, as the one I've used for the last twenty two years.

My own little guy has survived Mast Cell Cancer, which required extensive surgery, I don't even want to add up what I've spent on him at the vet's, all I want is to keep him spoiled, and happy, for as many years as I can.

Even if I do embarrass him during the holidays

 

[Caledonia]

Any animal can talk with enough peanut butter.
J

Surely you jest! Feed big dog an open peanut butter sandwich and she can't talk for about an hour once it's stuck to the top of her mouth! She makes a heck of a lot of slurpy, licking noises though.

And on topic, and hopefully without starting off on one, leave the animals alone. They are not property, they do not have a choice in the matter, they should not be selectively bred or surgically altered, they should not be killed humanely or otherwise when they are no longer "necessary" or are surplus to requirements, and if we have rights, so do they. It is morally incorrect to assign ourselves rights just because we have thumbs and know how to use them!

And I'm with Hemingway on the tails. My beloved big dog was docked when we got her. I wish every day that tail was there to knock the house apart.

I know I'm not supposed to be here, but, couldn't resist mate!

 

[Fatdutchman]

AAAAGH! Dog chains! I hate dog chains! Drives me nuts. Why on earth do these people even have a dog? They obviously don't love the dog. They keep them chained to a post and NEVER let them off. The grass is worn away in a 20 foot circle around the post. All they do is feed and water the dog (I presume....). Irritates the crap out of me.:rage:

Responsibility? Yes, obviously we should be responsible. The current favorite word is "Stewardship", with deference to the One who does own everything.

Despite the popular '70's saying, Animals are not people too.

 

[jamespowers]

Surely you jest! Feed big dog an open peanut butter sandwich and she can't talk for about an hour once it's stuck to the top of her mouth! She makes a heck of a lot of slurpy, licking noises though.

Did I mention they dub in the voice when their lips/mouth are moving.

Regards,

J

 

[jamespowers]

Skippy the Bush Kangaroo did it wit elastic bands behind the back teeth.

bk

Interesting. Mr. Ed did it with Skippy peanut butter.

 

[carebear]

Never mind on the snopes.com Mr. Ed / zebra thing, it was an in-house prank apparently.

 

[Caledonia]

Did I mention they dub in the voice when their lips/mouth are moving.

Regards,

J

Hmm, it must come out something like "Shhhlooorely yo(smack, smack), dnt meang (shlack, ack, ack, ack), shthley've fallen (ah got it!) down the mine shaft!" hack! Drool. Drip.

 

[jamespowers]

Hmm, it must come out something like "Shhhlooorely yo(smack, smack), dnt meang (shlack, ack, ack, ack), shthley've fallen (ah got it!) down the mine shaft!" hack! Drool. Drip.

Actually it came out like: "Willlllbur."

Regards,

J

 

[Hemingway Jones]

I see my pruning sheers coming out here... unless you want to start a Mr. Ed thread somewhere? Hmm, Mr Powers? lol

 

[jamespowers]

I see my pruning sheers coming out here... unless you want to start a Mr. Ed thread somewhere? Hmm, Mr Powers? lol

Nah, I don't know much about Mr. Ed.