A Message From Aero Leather USA

[coloradorider]

Keep at ebay / paypall and your credit card company. At least take comfort you are not alone.

PayPal refunded my money recently even though I was well past their 60-day custom made item time limit.

I originally opened a complaint on March 27th when Holly e-mailed me. Paypal closed the complaint since it was past 45-days (Paypal reviewing/closing the complaint took 2 days). I called Paypal back and requested to be transferred to their fraud department. Paypal's first operator passed me to a manager who explained that Paypal's fraud department apparently doesn't take incoming calls. This manager took my information and passed it on to Paypal's fraud department. Paypal's fraud department promptly called me back (!!!) and indicated they were reopening the complaint. I explained the situation again to the fraud department, briefly this time, that I expected the order to take 6+ months at the time of payment, the seller misrepresented his association with the actual manufacturer, that the actual manufacturer would verify that Mark Moye wouldn't be able to supply the jacket I had paid for, and referenced this thread since it contains a lot of corroborating information.

Good luck to everyone affected by this and hopefully you also have success by staying persistent with Paypal and/or your credit card provider. Hopefully, the information above gives you clear expectations on the steps/timing involved. Paypal made a loyal customer out of me for the way they handled this although the two week wait was painful. Fortunately, Mark didn't respond to Paypal's request for more information so this was closed automatically in my favor after 11 days.

 

[ButteMT61]

Paypal - like any company - isn't going to turn over money without fight. I've had to be patient and persistent with them when I needed a refund. I suppose I understand why - imagine all of the claims posted on a given day. But I do like the service, and still plan on using it. I've had similar battles with banks and other corporations. They probably count on a certain % of people not following through. Keep at them. I believe most will get a refund if you do that.

 

[Jeff M]

Anybody know what PayPal does when they have to refund money ? Do they go after the merchant ?
Seems like they would have to have a pretty busy legal department.

 

[rippsnorter]

I spent about 30 minutes with Paypal today, initially very optimistic.

I went through 3 people, First person that answered the phone, then their supervisor, and then her supervisor, name of Dawn.

I explained the situation to Dawn, including the fact that people were in fact getting refunds past the normal 45 days. That this was in fact fraud, and that it was not even supposed to be shipped for 3 to 6 months or longer. I also told her about this thread. When I told her that many people in this thread had put out a lot of money and were very upset with paypals refusal to help, she just laughed. Yes, laughed that people were upset with paypal.

She later called me back after investigating and checking through this thread, etc. Said that no, paypal would not refund any money to anyone in this situation, and that if anyone from this thread DID get a refund, there must have been extenuating circumstances.

Before she hung up, I asked her, "So are you saying that anyone that wants to order something custom, that has a long lead time should not use Paypal in general?"

Her reply: "Well of course we want you to use Paypal," (meaning yes we want your money) "but if it's a custom order in the future where it's a 3 to 6 month wait or something before you receive it, you should use your own discretion on whether it's worth it. Paypal will not be covering anything past 45 days."

So, there you have it, Paypal officially says that anything with a wait time should not be used by them if you want it to be covered. But they're happy for your money!

Oh yeah, she did thank me for filing a complaint though, and said that she would investigate and send Mark a courtesy email asking him to please refund money (at his discretion) to anyone that he has not paid back. I'm sure he'll listen since she's going to say please.

 

[too much coffee]

Hi rippsnorter;

Keep fighting it.........get Dawn's boss on the phone. PayPal has already set precedence with the refunds they've given to FL members and maybe others. Hold their feet to the fire and hang in there. Everybody has a boss.....just keep climbing up the corporate food chain ladder with your phone calls, emails what have you. Be the squeaky wheel.
Remember, customer service reps are trained to get you off the phone! Best of luck in your pursuit.
Regards,
coffee

 

[ButteMT61]

Yep, much as it sucks, and it does suck, keep calling and writing them. Tell here there are lots of folks with lots of money who will read this and they will lose business. I even threatened to open a Facebook page to boycott them. Whatever it takes. Good luck.

 

[GoodTimesGone]

There is actually a website called paypalsucks.com which has a link to a facebook site (with over 83,000 likes). Apparently the number of disgruntled customers is growing. http://www.paypalsucks.com/
Tom

 

[Hendrix]

I am very new to this forum, and over the past days have learnt a great deal about Irvins (thanks to all!) I'd noticed the posting by Aero that they'd shut up shop, which is bad enough, but to leave customers in such dire straits is appalling; I hope all affected will soon have things sorted to their satisfaction. For me, I have been considering an Irvin for some time now, and news like this makes me nervous about a purchase which should be something that makes the buyer very happy, but ends up a protracted nightmare.

JB

 

[Jeff M]

I am very new to this forum, and over the past days have learnt a great deal about Irvins (thanks to all!) I'd noticed the posting by Aero that they'd shut up shop, which is bad enough, but to leave customers in such dire straits is appalling; I hope all affected will soon have things sorted to their satisfaction. For me, I have been considering an Irvin for some time now, and news like this makes me nervous about a purchase which should be something that makes the buyer very happy, but ends up a protracted nightmare.

JB

Aero Leather didn't close up shop.
They are still going stronger than ever in their Scotland facility. You can still order directly from them...as most preferred to do anyway.
http://www.aeroleatherclothing.com/
Mark Moye, a private businessman who set himself up as an Aero retailer based in the US closed up shop. Or, rather, had it closed for him by Aero who refused to sell him any more of their jackets because of issues he was having collecting money from customers but not forwarding their orders to Aero (if I have the story correct).

 

[Hendrix]

Thanks for clearing that up for me Jeff. I am still playing catch-up here. Good to hear that the company is still going. Let's hope that those that are affected by the US closure are able to sort things as quickly as possible.

JB

 

[Peacoat]

Jeff: If I remember the story correctly, it wasn't that Aero refused to sell him anymore jackets, but rather they cut off his credit. Been a while since I read the tale of gloom, but I think that is what Aero noted in a post some time back.

Hendrix: Welcome to the forum.

 

[Jeff M]

Jeff: If I remember the story correctly, it wasn't that Aero refused to sell him anymore jackets, but rather they cut off his credit. Been a while since I read the tale of gloom, but I think that is what Aero noted in a post some time back.

Hendrix: Welcome to the forum.

Thanks for the clarification.
Such a lengthy thread......figured I had some of the details a bit off.

 

[Hendrix]

Thanks Peacoat, good to be here.

 

[cloudylemonade]

Aero Leather didn't close up shop.
They are still going stronger than ever in their Scotland facility. You can still order directly from them...as most preferred to do anyway.
http://www.aeroleatherclothing.com/
Mark Moye, a private businessman who set himself up as an Aero retailer based in the US closed up shop. Or, rather, had it closed for him by Aero who refused to sell him any more of their jackets because of issues he was having collecting money from customers but not forwarding their orders to Aero (if I have the story correct).

Basically that's the outcome, however we severed ties with Mark due to his inability to pay off debts with us, at the close of his business we had no idea that he was collecting money for orders without forwarding them on to us, this has all only come to light since that point.

 

[cloudylemonade]

I spent about 30 minutes with Paypal today, initially very optimistic.

I went through 3 people, First person that answered the phone, then their supervisor, and then her supervisor, name of Dawn.

I explained the situation to Dawn, including the fact that people were in fact getting refunds past the normal 45 days. That this was in fact fraud, and that it was not even supposed to be shipped for 3 to 6 months or longer. I also told her about this thread. When I told her that many people in this thread had put out a lot of money and were very upset with paypals refusal to help, she just laughed. Yes, laughed that people were upset with paypal.

She later called me back after investigating and checking through this thread, etc. Said that no, paypal would not refund any money to anyone in this situation, and that if anyone from this thread DID get a refund, there must have been extenuating circumstances.

Before she hung up, I asked her, "So are you saying that anyone that wants to order something custom, that has a long lead time should not use Paypal in general?"

Her reply: "Well of course we want you to use Paypal," (meaning yes we want your money) "but if it's a custom order in the future where it's a 3 to 6 month wait or something before you receive it, you should use your own discretion on whether it's worth it. Paypal will not be covering anything past 45 days."

So, there you have it, Paypal officially says that anything with a wait time should not be used by them if you want it to be covered. But they're happy for your money!

Oh yeah, she did thank me for filing a complaint though, and said that she would investigate and send Mark a courtesy email asking him to please refund money (at his discretion) to anyone that he has not paid back. I'm sure he'll listen since she's going to say please.

Outrageously poor customer service by Paypal on the whole with all of this. We're massively disappointed. They've been canvassing us for years to take Paypal as a form of payment, and we were almost at the point of agreeing on it, but after how they've treated customers with this, and downright lying to customers, this will not be happening.

 

[too much coffee]

Good for you Holly. Keep it simple.
I wish the day never came when PayPal became a bed partner with Ebay.

Regards,
coffee

 

[ButteMT61]

I'm torn. I love the ease of using PayPal, and since day one, I've been treated well, with one exception, but I kept on the, and it got worked out.
Dealing with money overseas is a PITA from the US. Honestly, I'd seriously consider this Holly. This particular situation is not "normal" and Paypal might have to make changes for items not available for immediate delivery.
For me, it's the easiest way I have to purchase online.

 

[cloudylemonade]

I'm torn. I love the ease of using PayPal, and since day one, I've been treated well, with one exception, but I kept on the, and it got worked out.
Dealing with money overseas is a PITA from the US. Honestly, I'd seriously consider this Holly. This particular situation is not "normal" and Paypal might have to make changes for items not available for immediate delivery.
For me, it's the easiest way I have to purchase online.

We take credit card and visa debit cards over our website and online, so there's no problem with payments from overseas. They've not even been honest with us about their policies since this has come out, as they can see by telling us the truth, policies eBay has admitted to us in writing (and then gone on to pretend aren't the case I might add), they'll have to pay out. This is not the kind of company we'd like to deal with, it'd take a lot for them to change our minds now. A good start be them doing the right thing for their customers. The sum of money we're talking about is nothing to them, but a lot to each individual involved.

Personally I've never been burned by Paypal, but seeing the large number of people who have been here is enough to change my mind.

 

[Mr. Paris]

Who's That Knock'in At My Door ?!!!

Well, it would seem another phase in my jacket odyssey has just moments ago ended.
My friendly UPS man just made a long overdue delivery.
I am the proud owner of a brand spank'in new Custom Aero Teamster !
I would like to thank Holly, Amanda and Janet for getting me such a beautiful jacket, and just the way it was intended.
For the record, I decided to re-order even though I am still awaiting PayPal's disposition on my claim.
Considering that I had been waiting since February of 2010......yeah, for real........I still wanted what I started out to get, and with some luck and perseverance, I am optimistic that I will be treated fairly when the dust finally clears and be updateing you all with money back in my account

A big thank to all the Lounge members who have lent me their support and wisdom throughout.

My jacket is kool son....sssssseriously !

Mr. Paris

 

[too much coffee]

Mr. Paris...........Great news man, congratulations!

Show us all about it.

Welcome to the Forum

Regards, coffee