A Message From Aero Leather USA

[oldcrow82]

I absolutely don't mind, 2Jakes! Hopefully I can be of some help to you, as others have been to me.

I paid in full through PayPal using my linked Visa. When I discovered that Aero USA had gone under, I immediately sent e-mails to the Aero Factory and Aero USA to establish that the order was nonexistent and that there was going to be no reply from Mark.

Next, I printed out a copy of my Visa payment to PayPal by going into the archives. I physically walked into a bank and talked to a service agent. She tried to say that I had no case due to the lapsed time, but I firmly, yet kindly, explained my case and all extenuating circumstances. She agreed to send my dispute to member services. An agent would contact me in 48 hours.

When I did receive a call from member services, she asked for any documentation I might have to strengthen my case, as I had stated in my dispute paperwork that I did.
I sent a link to this thread and every e-mail between me, Mark and Holly at Aero.

Three days later, voila, refund in hand. So to speak. Hope some of that is helpful.

My bank did the same thing in a different way. As soon as I filed the dispute the bank issued a refund. I don't have access to the money's, however I am not paying any interest (I don't carry a balance so that doesn't matter) nor would I have to make payments on that $800 charge. (again I paid for that log ago not applicable to me).
My understanding is that my bank goes after marks bank. If marks bank doesn't fight the charge back within 60 days the refund is fully authorized and the $800 is released to me.

 

[coloradorider]

Chargeback explanation -

Your bank, credit card, or financial service provider provides a charge back service. I hate referencing Wikipedia but they have the best explanation I can find that isn't super technical.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chargeback

Here's an explanation from Paypal the steps Mark will have to take if you successfully get your provider to claw back from Paypal - https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/seller/ChargebackRisk-outside. Note that the length of time your charge back is disputed depends on your bank/credit card company. You'll have the funds credited to your account but they're not yours free-and-clear until your financial provider provides the determination after their investigation. If you ordered less than 60 days ago and are waiting on reimbursement contact your credit card company, ebay, or Paypal immediately to get this process started since Mark is incommunicado. You'll likely get the funds credited to your account immediately, but will have to wait up to three months for the investigation to be closed. The judgement will in all probability be in your favor because you will have documentation you paid for a jacket you never received.

 

[jimmer_5]

Red Baron posts and related are gone. We will prune this thread as needed.

Scot -

Thanks to you and the other mods for keeping this thread open. For those of us who have been affected by this situation, this thread has been the only place for us to gather and get updates and news.

And, because of this thread, I am able to announce that Paypal refunded my payment!!!!! I literally jumped for joy when I got the email today! I had no hope that this would happen since I placed my order over two years ago. I think what it came down to was calling and speaking to a manager. When you make a claim through Paypal with an item that was purchased more than 45 days ago, they will automatically reject you. I had to call, speak to an agent, and then ask to speak to a manager. After going back and forth with a manager, he agreed to activate my claim, but said that he couldn't promise anything. I was told that it would take ten days to get an answer, and now, ten days later, they found in my favor.

If anyone else has any questions, please feel free to Pm me - I may have just gotten lucky, but it takes a little doing to get the claim activated. I sincerely hope we all can achieve this kind of result through one channel or another.

- Jim

 

[jimmer_5]

I physically walked into a bank and talked to a service agent. She tried to say that I had no case due to the lapsed time, but I firmly, yet kindly, explained my case and all extenuating circumstances.

I think this is crucial - be firm, yet polite and kind. I think this approach is a big part of getting the desired result.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Good for you Jim.
I hope that everyone involved makes the right contacts...lets themself be known...and seeks their money back. If it doesn't seem to work one way..try another...and then post here for specific help...or to share the results.
HD

 

[dr.velociraptor]

Always use your credit card for purchases online, it takes about two days to get a refund from a credit card for basically any reason once you file a dispute. From your bank account it's much more difficult if you get a refund at all.

 

[Mr. Paris]

Hi jimmer_5

With regards to your refund: Congratulations !
I also have a couple of questions that may help my situation with PayPal
How did you get to a manager with PayPal ?
When I started explaining that I placed my order 18 months ago and was seeking restitution I pretty much was told I had no recourse.
The other question is weather or not your payment was a direct withdrawal from your bank account or through a credit card.
I am afraid that the specific circumstances of my order may ultimately undermine any chances for me....but ya never know.
Any and all information is greatly appreciated.

Thanx,

Mr. Paris

 

[rippsnorter]

Really glad you got Paypal to refund your money Jim.

This is why I've been trying to encourage people to contact Paypal. They've said that the more people that contact them, even if it is a year old, the more likely they are to refund everyones money.

Please people, contact paypal and ebay.

 

[jimmer_5]

Hi jimmer_5

With regards to your refund: Congratulations !
I also have a couple of questions that may help my situation with PayPal
How did you get to a manager with PayPal ?
When I started explaining that I placed my order 18 months ago and was seeking restitution I pretty much was told I had no recourse.
The other question is weather or not your payment was a direct withdrawal from your bank account or through a credit card.
I am afraid that the specific circumstances of my order may ultimately undermine any chances for me....but ya never know.
Any and all information is greatly appreciated.

Thanx,

Mr. Paris

Here's how I went about it:

My order was what I consider to be the worst case scenario - I paid up up front, in full, through Paypal with a instant bank withdrawal. I am not positive, but I believe that would make me ineligible for a credit card chargeback. Trust me, I was going to try and do a chargeback if the Paypal thing fell through.

I went to the Paypal website and started a dispute. I had to go back a ways, but I was able to find the transaction in my history and get the transaction number. When I finished and sent the dispute, I got the following message:

"Thank you for registering your complaint about this transaction. Unfortunately, this type of transaction is not eligible for PayPal dispute resolution. We encourage you to continue to work directly with your seller, as we have found that many misunderstandings reach amicable solutions through communication."

From there, I called Paypal. I explained my situation, and the operator told me that there was nothing they could do outside of their 45 day window. I asked to speak to a manager, and explained how much money it was, and that I never received a product. I don't remember the exact conversation, but he eventually agreed to "activate" my claim. From my experience, I think I have learned the following info which may be helpful to others who fall outside the 45 day window for making a claim:

1. You have to go through the process - make the claim with Paypal online, get the automatic rejection, then call them to discuss, and politely insist on speaking to a manager who has the power to "activate" your claim. The original online claim you make will not meet their criteria, and will not go anywhere unless a Paypal employee manually "activates" it.
2. I believe Paypal employees are trained to do whatever they can to deny your claim. As far as I can tell, the operator who answers the phone has no power to help you. Even the manager had to go speak to someone else before he activated my claim. Polite persistence seems to be key.
3. I believe that establishing the difference between your "date of purchase" and "expected date of delivery" is crucial. eBay wasn't really designed to accommodate made-to-order items, so I think long lead times are a difficult concept for them to grasp. They need to know that you expected to receive your order recently, not back when you placed it.
4. Paypal and eBay do have a system for dealing with claims that fall outside of their 45 day window - they just don't want you to know about it. I think I may have gotten lucky with the manager I spoke to, and I suspect other people may need to say that they know that Paypal has a system for working on claims that are older than 45 days, and they can provide proof.

Anyhow, I hope this helps - let me know if I can help more.

- Jim

 

[Mr. Paris]

Thanx ever so much
It would seam that I gave up too early.
The first half of your story is very familiar to my experience, difference is I accepted their answers.
I will begin a again with your helpful information in tow.....lets see how it rolls !
Mr. Paris

 

[ButteMT61]

Don't accept a no. I have gone through this too (elsewhere). Keep asking for a "supervisor" and be firm and nice. I kept getting a "no" and run-arounds, but keep pushing.
Currently being firm and nice with the USPS myself.

 

[GoodTimesGone]

The firm and nice approach worked for me in a situation with Paypal a few months ago. I had 100% feedback as a seller on ebay when one night after I posted a jacket a guy clicked buy it now and paid with paypal immediately. When I went online to my paypal account it said something like "funds not available". Turns out paypal was randomly freezing seller accounts and capitalizing off of the interest while they held the funds in limbo. I talked to a couple of other sellers who said it happened to them and calling paypal didn't help. When they called they were quite pissed off. I was as well but went ahead and called using the firm, nice, yet very concerned approach. I told the employee on the phone that I'd worked in customer service for many years and thought what they'd done was just not right after the reputation that I had established on ebay. The guy said "Well...I'll make an exception for you this time and release the funds." After I got off the phone I checked my account and the funds were immediately available. Recently Clark Howard mentioned on his radio show that Paypal had randomly been holding seller funds and making money from the interest. I received an email from ebay announcing new seller-friendly procedures that they are rolling out. Perhaps this was a result of people like Clark Howard exposing these tactics to a national audience.
_________________________________________________________________________
Tom

 

[ButteMT61]

Tom, my son had that happen on his PayPal AND his bank account. We raised holy hell at his bank and they released the funds immediately. I'm afraid for all of our financial futures with this ability of business to do as they wish with OUR money. And to finish my b*tch-fest this week in this topic, I was paying a member on VLJ this weekend for a jacket, and my PayPal kicked me back. I had about 8-9x the money in the account (checking) so I called them. There was some $4 fee pending on my account, which during the call, they deemed "a mistake" on their part! So, I was hosed and had no access to my funds because of a $4 fee that was not mine. One "mistake" and you could find yourself broke. And it's up to their "good graces" to see if they want to fix it.

<br>

Bottom line: keep fighting. Don't let them dictate the outcome.

 

[Tony B]

In the uk at least the best way to sort paypal out is the FSA , people who regulate banks.

I have never had to use them on paypal but did need to use them on another company years ago , these government bodies can come across as tootheless but when it comes to the sums of money we are taliking about companies will allways payup as soon as they get a call from the fsa saying a complaint has been lodged against them.

The pleb on the phone you initially contact is almost always useless as they have no power and almost no training so like people have said ask for a manager...a proper manager not just someone with no power to make decisions...if you can get through to one of these they realise the trouble a complaint, with them mentioned by name, can cause and are lilely to process it in your favour. If this level doesn't work keep going over peoples heads untill you get a result, their boss saying "I have just had a complaint come to me with your name on it, get this sorted" will have more clout than some customer bending their ear on the phone does.

That is the other thing apart from being polite and business like when dealing with complaints, always take names and then when you need to go "up the ladder" always name the people who have not been helpfull to the next level up as the "next level" person knows if they are not helpfull they will be named to their boss if they make it necessary for you to go over their head. Also when someone is particularly helpfull I think a mention of their name as someone who was a particularly good helpfull empoyee doesn't hurt.

If all this fails a complaint to the FSA marks their card, permanantly, and everyone in the organisation gets a good kicking off their boss for letting it go that far. Next time you migh find your complaints are taken more seriously as they know you cause trouble

 

[Worf]

I had a similar experience as TonyB did but mine involved a defective Pioneer DVD player from back when "progressive scan" was NEW. This model was a piece of junk, broke within 6 months. Sent it off for repair, weeks and weeks of stalling. Called up riased hell, they sent me someone else's broken machine. I called for a refund and the manager litterally laughed at me. I said "okay" let's play hardball. I then called the California Better Business Bureau and filed a claim. I received a phone call from the same Pioneer representative the very next day and had my refund in days. I had a very frank discussion with this bum afterwards. I told him I was exactly the kind of customer for mid to high end Home Electronics they wanted, tech savvy, professional, with high disposable income. I also told him that if they'd treated me like a human being much less a valued customer, they might have had a customer for life. On the other hand they now had an enemy for life. On every electronics or audio hobby website I've ever joined I've told my story of how I was treated by Pioneer. In this instance, I'd have never gotten satisfaction without the help of this quasi government agency.

Worf

 

[Tony B]

My one that lead to the FSA was unreal at the time.

I had opened a bank account and left a grand in it to keep it open as a backup to my normal current acount that I use everyday I intended tying it to a stock brocker dealing account but ended up never doing so as I used another account for this purpose.

After a couple of years of not using it and knowing I never would be using it I called them to transfer the money to my normal account and close it .....they said they had no records of me (I wondered how come they kept sending statements if they didn't know who I was) and just stonewalled me at every level....all this for £1000.It was hard to credit what I was hearing off these people. Rather than waste even more time I just got the FSA on to them thinking they would be sod all use but worth a try anyway.

The money was transfered to my account with my regular bank the next day, no appology though, and a nice letter from the FSA thanking me for drawing their attention to this matter. I am not nameing them but it was one of the big highstreet "names" and the person who I spoke to to thank for their efforts at the FSA said this was just one of several complaints about the same thing regarding that bank.

Paypal is a bank and should be regulated by whatever authority regulates banks in your countries, if they are giving you trouble report them to whatever the relevent government body is in your country, is should put manners on them. Dont threaten to do it or tell them yo are going to , just do it, it has more impact.

 

[ButteMT61]

...Paypal is a bank and should be regulated by whatever authority regulates banks in your countries, if they are giving you trouble report them to whatever the relevent government body is in your country, is should put manners on them. Dont threaten to do it or tell them yo are going to , just do it, it has more impact.

Touché!

 

[Chief000731]

Tom, my son had that happen on his PayPal AND his bank account. We raised holy hell at his bank and they released the funds immediately. I'm afraid for all of our financial futures with this ability of business to do as they wish with OUR money. And to finish my b*tch-fest this week in this topic, I was paying a member on VLJ this weekend for a jacket, and my PayPal kicked me back. I had about 8-9x the money in the account (checking) so I called them. There was some $4 fee pending on my account, which during the call, they deemed "a mistake" on their part! So, I was hosed and had no access to my funds because of a $4 fee that was not mine. One "mistake" and you could find yourself broke. And it's up to their "good graces" to see if they want to fix it.

<br>

Bottom line: keep fighting. Don't let them dictate the outcome.

Scott I'm still fighting with PayPal over $600.00 somebody hacked my account twice and PayPal knows it they are the ones that informed me about it. Now they have me owing them $600.00 so I no longer use PayPal it's a B*tch but I have to wait it out and pay with money orders...
Carl

 

[jksu]

considering how much they skim/collect off ebay fees, paypal fees, etc. the least they can do is protect their customers just as the credit card companies do...otherwise, they're just a big scam... and ripe for a competitor

 

[Tony B]

considering how much they skim/collect off ebay fees, paypal fees, etc. the least they can do is protect their customers just as the credit card companies do...otherwise, they're just a big scam... and ripe for a competitor

That just about sums 'em up