"300" - Merged Thread

[Quigley Brown]

I watched The History Channel's documentary on the battle last evening. I guess if it wasn't for that historical event there would be no democracy today (one of those hypothisis that if A didn't occur then B wouldn't happen then C wouldn't occur then D wouldn't happen............).

 

[Hondo]

I watched The History Channel's documentary on the battle last evening. I guess if it wasn't for that historical event there would be no democracy today (one of those hypothisis that if A didn't occur then B wouldn't happen then C wouldn't occur then D wouldn't happen............).

I also saw History Channels doc, brief two hours of history, was it me or do others detect this as “preview” for the 300 movie?
I wanted realism but got comic book graphics, colors, while it did provide move than I knew of the battle. (It wasn’t entirely true of only 300; there were other warriors who help the Spartans, for a total of 1,000) I guess I was hoping for too much, probably wait for the DVD, maybe bargain matinee when crowds die down at the box office just to see the effect on big screen.



http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/Movies/03/09/review.300/index.html

 

[Doctor Strange]

A couple of pages ago, I mentioned that there would surely be a History Channel tie-in show! Ah, the inveitable corporate synergy...

I only saw a few minutes of it, but noted that the look of the recreations was far closer to the bold stylization of the film than the History Channel's usual semi-realistic live-action footage.

I had a hoot reading the film's reviews via MetaCritic and RottenTomatoes this morning - especially the bad ones. Paraphrasing one of the best lines I read, in a discussion saying that the film had tremendously detailed violence but little feeling: "It's like a movie about Klingons made by Vulcans."!

 

[Hondo]

A couple of pages ago, I mentioned that there would surely be a History Channel tie-in show! Ah, the inveitable corporate synergy...

I only saw a few minutes of it, but noted that the look of the recreations was far closer to the bold stylization of the film than the History Channel's usual semi-realistic live-action footage.

I had a hoot reading the film's reviews via MetaCritic and RottenTomatoes this morning - especially the bad ones. Paraphrasing one of the best lines I read, in a discussion saying that the film had tremendously detailed violence but little feeling: "It's like a movie about Klingons made by Vulcans."!

Right you are, my error for neglecting you "Quote" roughly 7th-grade level of detail/analysis.I'll check out the other reviews, and make that two hoots!!!

 

[52Styleline]

Movie reviewers and rock critics.lol They both make me laugh with their pretentious attempts to lend significance to the clearly insignificant. Movies either entertain or they don't. That's all the meaning they have.

 

[Doctor Strange]

I'm sorry, I reject your narrow view: movies can do far more than entertain!

Not *most* movies, to be sure, but there are plenty that illuminate the human condition in the same way as novels, plays, and other artforms.

 

[Quigley Brown]

Heck, if the massive storm hadn't wiped out 200 of the Persian ships comin' round the bend then there'd have been a quick end to the 300....er, 1300.

 

[carebear]

And with those ships they might have then won at Salamis, which is really where Western Civ was saved. The people of Athens had fled to the island of Salamis and Xerxes men stood on its ruins, most of Northern greece had gone over to the Persian side.

The Spartans and remaining Peloponesian cities wanted to fortify the Isthmus and hold out (and would have failed as Xerxes could have landed men behind their lines at will).

It was Themosticles of Athens who gave the ultimatum that if the Greek allied navy, including 200 ships he had fortuitously convinced the Athenian assembly to build just a few years prior, did not stand and fight in the narrows where they could reduce the Persian superiority in a similar fashion to Thermopylae, then the people of Athens would evacuate to their colony in Italy (which an oracle had told them to create deceades before as a refuge).

The Greeks, all free men arguing strategy as equals (in contrast to the Persians where each man, no matter his rank or title, was in the end a slave of Xerxes) in the days and even hours before the battle, finally agreed on a plan.

Xerxes had better ships and more of them, with more experienced crews. But the Greeks, operating with the discipline and initiative that only free men can combine sank about half the fleet. Xerxes sat on a throne on the heights above and watched at least 40,000 of his men die in the water and the rest of his ships flee. And with his fleet, his real chance of conquering the free Greek peoples.

He walked away from the battle soon after, taking 60,000 troops and leaving his General Mardonias to be the scapegoat for the failure the next year when the still badly outnumbered Spartans and Allied Greeks routed the Persians at Plataea. Almost none of the Persian army, in its hundreds of thousands, made it back to the East alive.

Stirring stuff.

 

[Quigley Brown]

I am amazed at how much we know about it....details, strategy, outcome...

 

[carebear]

I am amazed at how much we know about it....details, strategy, outcome...

Well, the Greeks were writers. After the wars the generals were routinely forced to defend their choices and actions, no major Greek leader was not fined, exiled or even killed by huis own city at one time or another. Sometimes even after they had won!

For that matter Greek generals and leaders fought alongside their men in the line, not sitting on a throne miles away, watching and marking down who to praise for bravery or kill for cowardice.

What is amazing is that all the writing is from the Greek side. The Persians were literate, but Xerxes embodied the state and army and was an avater of Ahura Mazda. A defeat for Persia was thus a personal defeat for him. Thus no histories of the war from veterans or monuments to the fallen come out of Persian sources, Xerxes could not be shown to have been defeated.

Yet another difference between free peoples and tyrants, free peoples can write about victory or defeat.

Now I'm no pie in the sky idealist, by our standards Greek freedom was a very reactionary thing, but it laid the groundwork. We can see the differences in what the survival of Greek freedom has left us with today with what the legacy of tyranny after tyranny has left much of the rest of the world.

I recommend Victor Davis Hanson's "Carnage and Culture" for an overview of the Western way of war and how it was and is influenced by Western thought and culture.

 

[Haversack]

In the field of alternate history, Harry Turtledove has written a short story entitled _Counting Potsherds_. It is set in Athens some 30 years after the Persian victories at Thermopylae and Salamis.

Haversack.

 

[carebear]

I'll have to look for that.

Thanks

 

[Dalexs]

I just got back from seeing this movie.

Well, I'm not quite sure how much history was left in this version of the story, but if you like graphic novel styled type of flicks, definately go see it.

It was entertaining, albeit, a little gory for the kids... (and there were kids in the audience.)

The story was intrigueing enough to make me want to go read the actual account of the time frame.

I like movies that can do that for me. (Ok, and I like the blood and guts too!)

Dalexs

 

[Feraud]

The story was intrigueing enough to make me want to go read the actual account of the time frame.

I like movies that can do that for me. (Ok, and I like the blood and guts too!)

Dalexs

That is what makes me want to see the film.
Thanks Dalexs!

 

[52Styleline]

I'm sorry, I reject your narrow view: movies can do far more than entertain!

Not *most* movies, to be sure, but there are plenty that illuminate the human condition in the same way as novels, plays, and other artforms.

Not as narrow as you might think. There are far more people who don't care about movies (or even attend them) than do. Of those who regularly attend movies, I would wager that more people see them as simple entertainment than ascribe metaphysical or great social meaning to the latest/greatest excuse for popcorn sales. Considering the sleazy nature of many in the motion picture industry, I am not willing to accept that they are capable of meaningfully interpreting the human condition. But then I am an admitted cynic about such things.

However, to each his or her own and I am completely willing to respect your right to your opinion and your feeling about motion pictures. :eusa_clap

 

[Quigley Brown]

I just got back from a matinee viewing (practically had the place to myself...I always pick third row center, too). It was pretty intense up that close to the screen...the metal on metal is still ringing in my ears. From watching a documentary on the actual battle a few nights ago I think the basic facts were correct in the film. Funny...the disclaimer at the end (I always sit through the end credits) said all characters were ficticious.[huh]

 

[happyfilmluvguy]

I don't think I've ever seen the theater near my house so close to having a full house, for some time. 300 was very enjoyable, beautiful backdrops, good acting, and some very pleasant music. I think there was a bit too much comic relief (the sarcasm), too often in the end of the second act and third act. It seemed like just a passing of time before the next big battle. One thing I felt about many scenes was them being injected with adrenaline at every moment. Too flashy and exaggerated. The slow motion was nice to a point, but also, too often for me. Overall, it was done very well.

 

[Doctor Strange]

Not as narrow as you might think. There are far more people who don't care about movies (or even attend them) than do. Of those who regularly attend movies, I would wager that more people see them as simple entertainment than ascribe metaphysical or great social meaning to the latest/greatest excuse for popcorn sales. Considering the sleazy nature of many in the motion picture industry, I am not willing to accept that they are capable of meaningfully interpreting the human condition. But then I am an admitted cynic about such things.

However, to each his or her own and I am completely willing to respect your right to your opinion and your feeling about motion pictures. :eusa_clap

Well, I'm actually more cynical than you: I simply don't care about what "more people" think. Most people are, to put it bluntly, clueless. The whole reason we gather in forums like this is to discuss stuff that's totally off the radar, or quite beyond the understanding of, most people. Frankly, I have never given a DAMN what's popular or successful: my general approach from a very early age has been to always go in the opposite direction of the popular. The best stuff usually is NOT popular!

Sure, the bulk of film "product" is made by venal producers/corporations who only want to make a profit (not that there's really anything wrong with that). But there's also a thriving world of non-American and independent films that ARE made to do more than entertain, not to mention thousands of films made over the last century that aren't just entertainment.

 

[slicedbread]

I watched the movie yesterday...And loved it. I'm no history buff or anything like that so perhaps that helped me enjoy the movie for what it is...

The raw emotion and the emphasis of honor for one's country, countrymen, and one's self really just strikes a chord with me. The way the spartans were portrayed with a stoic exterior despite their inner turmoil...At the last moment, however, their true strength and depth of emotion is revealed...To me, the closest to the ideal man was depicted in this film. That being said, everybody has their own opinions and I will NOT argue with them about it, though i would like to hear what everybody thinks...

I highly recommend seeing this film, despite its gratuitous use of nudity and fight scenes.

 

[carebear]

I highly recommend seeing this film, despite its gratuitous use of nudity and fight scenes.

I think you mistyped that word, it's spelled "due to".