You can’t judge a book by looking at the cover…

[Monitor]

It's threads like this that get me thinking that leather jackets and brand loyalty can be taken way too seriously.

I'm still feeling slightly dumb for spending over $1000 on an Aero half-belt - which is a lovely thing but is not giving me any more pleasure, to be honest, than a $140 used Brooks.

There is a type of collecting of consumer goods that transcends the item itself and settles into a type of fetishism or coveting of brand and manufacturing that seems like a parody.

That's been bothering me since the day I joined this forum. But I've just accepted the fact that I'm a fool for spending more than $150 on a leather jacket. Or a denim jacket. Especially a denim jacket. I mean, I LOVE these things but I just can't really pretend I'm getting anything more out of a $1000 plus jacket. Never could have. I'll just continue embracing the madness.

 

[58panheadfan]

It's threads like this that get me thinking that leather jackets and brand loyalty can be taken way too seriously.

I'm still feeling slightly dumb for spending over $1000 on an Aero half-belt - which is a lovely thing but is not giving me any more pleasure, to be honest, than a $140 used Brooks.

There is a type of collecting of consumer goods that transcends the item itself and settles into a type of fetishism or coveting of brand and manufacturing that seems like a parody.

Has mentioned above from @Mich486: The key is finding the quality/price ratio that works for you! It’s clearly not always the most expensive item. As long it works for you, everything is fine

 

[58panheadfan]

That's been bothering me since the day I joined this forum. But I've just accepted the fact that I'm a fool for spending more than $150 on a leather jacket. Or a denim jacket. Especially a denim jacket. I mean, I LOVE these things but I just can't really pretend I'm getting anything more out of a $1000 plus jacket. Never could have. I'll just continue embracing the madness.

Why bothering, if the quality/price ratio works for you, then everything is fine, right?

Edit: If you like driving a vw beetle why waste thoughts because others are driving a ferrari... Edit: Or the other way.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Why bothering, if the quality/price ratio works for you, even if it is far below $ 1'000.00, then everything is fine, right?

Edit: If you like driving a vw beetle why waste thoughts because others are driving a ferrari...

Or even better, don't own a car if you don't need one.

 

[58panheadfan]

That's true

 

[58panheadfan]

I would like to mention that not always the price, the quality etc. is determining whether for a product or as for here, a leather jacket is "better", but rather what you have experienced and what stories are associated with it, that fact no money can buy.

 

[navetsea]

This is a perfect thread for the title...
So far it goes to price- quality ratio, leather quality, ferrari
i m not sure where it would go into either

In leather jacket i believe there are 3 tiers only
Haloween costume grade
Functional grade
High end costume grade

 

[ton312]

This is a perfect thread for the title...
So far it goes to price- quality ratio, leather quality, ferrari
i m not sure where it would go into either

In leather jacket i believe there are 3 tiers only
Haloween costume grade
Functional grade
High end costume grade

You forgot reality grade. A grizzly composed of shirtless man with shaved arms and shoulder. (also known as Norris grade).

 

[Rosecitymike]

But what is function? protection on a MC? Warmth? Having women want to caress your leather-clad torso? All admirable in their own right and all can be found throughout price points. Then you’re back to personal taste and arguing about minutiae. Which makes for the most entertaining threads. So carrry on, everybody!

 

[Seb Lucas]

In leather jacket i believe there are 3 tiers only
Haloween costume grade
Functional grade
High end costume grade

That is good!

 

[navetsea]

I think it is quite clear the raise in price of these supposed workwear gear is because of overqualified people making it, imagine an architect doing a brick laying him/her self how much would that wall cost you.

When 1st world university graduates see sewing jeans or jacket as a career then you pay $$$ for a pair.

 

[Superfluous]

Both are made to a very high quality

"High" quality, yes, but not the same quality. Even in the realm of "high" quality, there are palpable differences.

Both are made with very nice leather

"Very nice" leather, yes, but not the same leather. Even is the realm of top quality leathers, there are palpable differences.

While some might say the FW uses "better" leather, how is that even measured?

"Better" is not the correct adjective. FW does not offer objectively superior leather. Rather, FW provides "different" leather that is more desirable to some, but less desirable to others.

Does Shinki HH provide a better wearing experience somehow? Protect you from the elements better?

Some prefer the "wearing experience" of Shinki -- others do not. Purely subjective.

At these levels I believe its purely subjective

Could not agree more.

At these levels I believe . . . the price is more driven by marketing and positioning in the marketplace than cost of production.

Disagree. Moreover, unless you have accurate information regarding FW's leather and manufacturing costs, your speculative opinion lacks foundation.

Multiple posters -- including Himel -- have confirmed that Shinki HH costs considerably more than other available HHs from Horween and Italy. Given the manner in which Shinki HH is tanned/produced and the length of the process, the additional cost for Shinki HH is understandable. I am not suggesting that the more costly and lengthy tanning process produces an inherently superior HH. Rather, I am merely observing that the additional cost of the hide is consistent with the more costly tanning process.

Multiple posters have gone into great detail about the superlative construction and detailing of FW leather jackets. The french seams, beautiful top stitching, and other details are quite evident. These details increase the length of time it takes to produce a FW jacket. Dave Sheely recently posted about how it takes longer to produce a french seam. Top stitching adds to the length of the manufacturing process. Tighter stitching takes longer than wider stitching because it requires more stitches. Finally, the more precise one is with each individual stitch, the longer it takes to construct the jacket -- things go much quicker with reduced tolerances and less attention to detail. I am not suggesting that ELMC does not employ high quality manufacturing methods. However, IMHO, ELMC does not employ the same methods, with the same details and precision, as FW. Thus, it understandably takes longer to produce a FW jacket.

Economies of scale is also a critically important factor in terms of pricing. Eastman has a far broader reach, and likely sells many more jackets, than FW. This greater economy of scale enables Eastman to spread out fixed expenses and thereby lower the cost of each individual jacket.

The foregoing considerations are merely the tip of the iceberg. There are countless other factors that give rise to the total cost of an individual leather jacket, including labor costs (I don't have any relevant data to address this point).

Therefore, IMHO, actual production costs and genuine operational expenses remain very relevant factors giving rise to the cost of leather jackets, including for both FW and Eastman. It is easy to assume that the more expensive jacket has a larger profit margin, but that is pure speculation. In reality, Eastman's actual cost for each individual jacket may be a fraction of FW's cost, and Eastman may have a much larger profit margin. Or vice-versa. I don't know.

Both look great, I'm sure anyone would be happy with either.....at these levels, its an emotional purchase. Buy the one that makes you happy, not because you think its "better".

Amen!!!!!!!

 

[Seb Lucas]

All good points Super. Companies may also set a price based on what their marketing allows them to get away with - exclusivity, artisanal manufacture and quality are the easiest appeals to make if you want to set a high price point. If consumers give enough of a shit, they'll give enough of their money to make it work.

 

[El Marro]

Interesting thread here (I think?) Also cool to see how everybody has been playing it pretty cool with a topic that can sometimes get pretty heated.
I have to take issue with the premise of the thread though, particularly the idea that there are many here who consider themselves experts while in reality having very little experience. With a few exceptions I find that most people here offer observations based on their own experience either through owning or handling different leather jackets.

 

[zebedee]

For me, the price/comfort/not feeling sheepish spot is satisfied by Aero. I also wouldn't wait more than two or three months for a jacket (or anything that I've so far had made), and, while I like the look of FW's stuff I've found that a) Japanese sizing doesn't really work on me and that b) those prices aren't ones I'm willing to pay. I feel the same way about any jackets north of 800 GBP, shoes above 200 GBP and jeans more than 60 GBP. I'm in the 14 GBP (max) range for t-shirts. If I paid any more for those items, I'd feel somehow feeble or gulled (I don't think that of others, but I wouldn't hit those prices).

Questions of function are interesting. I need stuff that lasts, that has enough pockets for me to carry my shitnacks around and that I don't worry about damaging or needing to replace due to wear and tear (I particularly hate replacing jackets when I know that the replacement will have a lifespan of about three years- it's just wasteful, and I feel the same about shoes) and that will survive different climates. As Aero jackets are longer-lasting than anything else I've owned and I consider them to be good value, I don't want to pay less or more. Lots of things I now buy used and feel no better or worse about them than if I'd bought them new. For some weird reason, this is particularly true (for me) about jeans and thick cotton shirts. I'd never buy chinos used, but have no idea why (that would seem like sharing a yogurt with someone using the same spoon- inexplicably, instinctually wrong).

I think that I'd pay more for (for example) a jacket if I had the honest-to-God expertise to know how it was superior. As I don't (and probably will not acquire this knowledge, frankly), I run the risk of being a happy customer.

 

[58panheadfan]

@Superfluous Cool, you have expressed what I wanted to say with the title in this thread ... the music plays backstage.

 

[58panheadfan]

Interesting thread here (I think?) Also cool to see how everybody has been playing it pretty cool with a topic that can sometimes get pretty heated.
I have to take issue with the premise of the thread though, particularly the idea that there are many here who consider themselves experts while in reality having very little experience. With a few exceptions I find that most people here offer observations based on their own experience either through owning or handling different leather jackets.

Absolutely, many Members in this forum have a great knowledge and experience in e.g. leather jackets but as you have mentioned, there are just a few exceptions.

 

[58panheadfan]

For me, the price/comfort/not feeling sheepish spot is satisfied by Aero. I also wouldn't wait more than two or three months for a jacket (or anything that I've so far had made), and, while I like the look of FW's stuff I've found that a) Japanese sizing doesn't really work on me and that b) those prices aren't ones I'm willing to pay. I feel the same way about any jackets north of 800 GBP, shoes above 200 GBP and jeans more than 60 GBP. I'm in the 14 GBP (max) range for t-shirts.

That's nice to hear someone found his perfect quality/price ratio. The choice is yours...

 

[zebedee]

That's nice to hear someone found his perfect quality/price ratio. The choice is yours...

The problem is that I don't tend to go cheaper if things are new. Buying stuff used, though, solves that.

 

[The Jackal]

Which makes for the most entertaining threads. So carrry on, everybody!

That's the only reason I keep coming back to this thread. This is entertaining as hell.