Would You Have Said Something?

[AmateisGal]

Our town held a Memorial Day ceremony last night in the Veteran's Memorial Garden. This is a very nice, solemn place where there are memorials to all the armed forces, women in the military, ex-POWs, MIA's, etc.

There was a nice crowd, and as the service started, we said the pledge of allegiance and a woman in the Air Force sang the national anthem.

But off to my left, there was a news cameraman who didn't bother to put his hand over his heart or say the pledge of allegiance or even bother looking at the flag. Instead, he was using his cell phone - not talking on it, but it was a touch screen and he was thumbing through it. He did this through the pledge of allegiance and the singing of the national anthem (which as many of you know, is not a short song!).

Now part of me wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt that maybe he had an important work message...but I doubt it.

And yes, I do know that he has the right not to say the pledge of allegiance or give respect to the flag. That is his right.

But really? In the middle of a Memorial Day ceremony, a place where we are gathered there to honor those who sacrificed their lives for our nation, and fought and died to give that guy his right of freedom of the press, he couldn't show a little respect?

I really, really wanted to say something to him.

Maybe I'll just write a letter to the editor instead...

It seems to me that simple courtesy was in order here, especially in the midst of veterans, current military members, and families.

Am I off base?

 

[hatophile]

Two problems here. The cell phone is a great thing to have for emergencies, but the way folks talk on them constantly while driving, shopping, etc. is absurd, not to mention texting and playing games. Secondly, not to acknowlege the ceremony or the flag is just plain rude.

I'm not sure saying anything would have been worth your time and effort.

 

[SGT Rocket]

That is a tough one. I could see him being distracted if his wife just texted him "come home, I'm having a baby, RIGHT NOW!"

But I do think it was rude for him not to pay attention. If I'm in a situation where they play the national anthem of another country, I give the anthem respect (say the Olympics or a function at a embassy).

It would have bothered me, but I'm not sure I would have said anything; just because I don't know the whole situation.

 

[LizzieMaine]

The problem is that people today aren't taught anymore what the correct behavior is in such circumstances. Most people *don't know* proper flag etiquette -- we used to learn it in the Scouts and such places, but most kids today don't have that opportunity.

I was at a baseball game last week, and they made an announcement before the Anthem -- "please remove your caps." That's the first time in forty years of going to ballgames that I've ever heard a specific instruction like that -- modern people *just don't know.* That's just how it is nowadays.

 

[AmateisGal]

I asked my eleven-year-old daughter if she put her hand over her heart when she said the pledge of allegiance at school. She looked shocked that I would even ask. "I do it every time, Mom. I've been doing it since kindergarten!" I'm glad her school is teaching that, at least.

 

[Feraud]

The problem is that people today aren't taught anymore what the correct behavior is in such circumstances. Most people *don't know* proper flag etiquette -- we used to learn it in the Scouts and such places, but most kids today don't have that opportunity.

I was at a baseball game last week, and they made an announcement before the Anthem -- "please remove your caps." That's the first time in forty years of going to ballgames that I've ever heard a specific instruction like that -- modern people *just don't know.* That's just how it is nowadays.

Right. This is the result of those who chant the "we are better than the old days because we do our own thing" mantra. Everyone does their own thing and most people know nothing.
Common sense is dead and has been replaced by advertising morals. Just Do It, or worse Be Stupid, because we know creativity comes from idiots..

 

[Drappa]

I'm clearly the odd one out, but I think it would have been highly inappropriate to say something to him or even to complain to the paper. Not everyone who doesn't sing along or puts their hand on their hearts is clueless or rude, he may have been doing it very consciously. It's not like he was loudly disrupting the service or singing another song loudly. What is the point of forcing people to conform to expected behaviour they do not believe in, including children at school?
For instance, my husband is in the military, and is an atheist. Yet there have been many attempts to force him to attend religious ceremonies or partake in Christmas carols, when he clearly does not believe in it and does not wish to do so as that is not why he chose that job. The assumption that traditionally everyone in the UK forces is Christian, and therefore needs to join in is increasingly being challenged, and I think that it good. Not everything that is traditional is automatically good or proper, and everything else is rude or disrespectful.
I find it a bit of a stretch to claim that today's journalists would be required to show patriotism no matter what because they enjoy freedom of speech.

 

[AmateisGal]

For me, it's all about respect and common courtesy. This wasn't a religious ceremony we're talking about here, this was a ceremony specifically about remembering the fallen of our nation. And on this point - "not everything that is traditional is automatically good or proper" , I would say it IS proper to show respect for the flag and for the fallen of our nation.

And not once did I say that this person should be "required" to show patriotism simply because he works for the press - far from it. I recognize he has every right not to. But would it hurt for him to recognize that he has that particular freedom BECAUSE of those men and women's sacrifices? If for nothing else - love of country or patriotism or whatever - be respectful of THEM.

I also have every right to disagree with him. I thought about saying something, but probably never would have...I'm just not the type of individual to do that.

 

[LocktownDog]

To play devil's advocate: How much time did you spend paying attention to his actions (or non-actions) rather than the flag and ceremony?

PS: Yes, he was wrong. If he didn't want to do it, he could have backed off somewhere.

 

[Feraud]

Also, one guy not paying attention to what is going on in however large the group was is not bad..

 

[rue]

I think this has everything to do with respect for others and nothing to do with beliefs. For example, if I was in the UK and they played their anthem, I would stand quietly and listen. It's not that hard to be considerate.

Oh and no I wouldn't have done anything except given him "the eye" and then ignored him, because it would have brought focus onto him instead of the ceremony.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Maybe I'll just write a letter to the editor instead...

A total waste of time as the editor is probably of the same mind as his/her cameraman. After all this is the Media that we're talking about.

 

[AmateisGal]

To play devil's advocate: How much time did you spend paying attention to his actions (or non-actions) rather than the flag and ceremony?

PS: Yes, he was wrong. If he didn't want to do it, he could have backed off somewhere.

LOL. I thought about this, too. I think I glanced at him once during the pledge and once during the anthem.

 

[Puzzicato]

I think this has everything to do with respect for others and nothing to do with beliefs. For example, if I was in the UK and they played their anthem, I would stand quietly and listen. It's not that hard to be considerate.

I agree with this. If he didn't want to put his hand on his heart, or say the pledge, then that is fine. But it wouldn't hurt to just stand quietly while it was going on. He could have made a mental shopping list or something instead. I am not religious, so when I find myself in church I don't pretend to pray, but I do show the believers in the congregation the respect of sitting quietly, not filing my nails or checking my messages.

 

[AmateisGal]

I think this has everything to do with respect for others and nothing to do with beliefs. For example, if I was in the UK and they played their anthem, I would stand quietly and listen. It's not that hard to be considerate.

Oh and no I wouldn't have done anything except given him "the eye" and then ignored him, because it would have brought focus onto him instead of the ceremony.

You said it perfectly, Rue.

 

[Drappa]

I know it wasn't religious, I was just giving an example. What is respect and common courtesy to one person, can be interpreted as completely different to others depending on their political ideology, and I just don't believe that one is necessarily more "right" than the other.
I guess I don't see how his actions were disrespectful of the fallen, because it sounds as though he was quietly doing his own thing, whether that involves typing on a phone or not, and probably not trying to draw attention to himself. The fact that you were watching him and were feeling annoyed at him not singing along doesn't constitute a lack of respect to me.

 

[WH1]

Drappa, I will agree with you that not everyone is a christian in the military and I have and will continue to defend the right of my non christian troops to be free of enforced religion and imposed morality not related to good order and discipline. And I am opposed to excessive displays of jingoistic fervor such as was displayed by too many Americans after the death of Bin Laden. But I do believe it is common decency to refrain from using your cell phone during the national anthem regardless of what country you are in or come from. It is a sign of self respect to show respect for the beliefs and customs of others (within reason, I will never be able to show respect for Knee high black socks with bermuda shorts.)

 

[AmateisGal]

What is respect and common courtesy to one person, can be interpreted as completely different to others depending on their political ideology, and I just don't believe that one is necessarily more "right" than the other.
I guess I don't see how his actions were disrespectful of the fallen, because it sounds as though he was quietly doing his own thing, whether that involves typing on a phone or not, and probably not trying to draw attention to himself. The fact that you were watching him and were feeling annoyed at him not singing along doesn't constitute a lack of respect to me.

I guess it shouldn't matter WHAT your political ideology is in this instance. Never played into the picture for me. It's like Rue said - common courtesy. Heck, I see people talking on their cell phones while checking out at the grocery store while the clerk is trying to talk to them. That's rude, IMO.

As a WW2 historian and daughter of a veteran and wife to a veteran, I perhaps look at this with more emotion than anything. Perhaps that's wrong. I teared up when the color guard came down the path.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Right. This is the result of those who chant the "we are better than the old days because we do our own thing" mantra. Everyone does their own thing and most people know nothing.
Common sense is dead and has been replaced by advertising morals. Just Do It, or worse Be Stupid, because we know creativity comes from idiots..

Regarding the "Be Stupid" campaign slogan, it touches upon a sad truth about today's society. It seems that even though one might not have much in the way of the former but have a certain amount of the latter it will more than compensate. But unfortunately it doesn't seem to work the other way round. In other words, it's not brains but audacity that wins the day anymore. And we are all the worse for it.

 

[DocMustang]

I believe I would have asked him if there were some reason he did not respect the solemnity of the occasion while affirming his right not to participate. There are certainly valid reasons why he would not have participated in either the pledge or the anthem, but they are his own and not my business.

I do not expect citizens or subjects of another country to recite the American pledge of allegiance or place their hand over their heart and sing the American national anthem.

I also defend the right of individuals who are American citizens to choose not to participate in either one on the grounds of whatever personal and private objections they may hold to such things.

However, I do expect someone who chooses not to participate to show respect for the reverence that others may feel for the ceremony.

During my time in the Navy, I have been on an American Navy base where several countries ships were visiting. According to American Naval tradition the American Flag is raised at 0800 while the Star Spangled Banner is played over a loudspeaker. When other Countries' ships are in port their home country’s respective national anthems are played as well, in alphabetical order by country. I would maintain a hand salute during the Star Spangled Banner, drop my salute after the last note and continue to stand at attention for 20 minutes while the other nation's anthems played.

I expect nothing less from others. I expect that those who cannot or choose not to participate show deference to the solemnity of the occasion. This respects others reverence for the occasion. Someone who chooses not to participate should stand quietly with their hands at their sides. This shows other's the proper respect. Speaking to others who are not participating, talking on a cell phone or texting or whatever private business they may have should be put on hold unless some personal emergency prevents it.

Again this does not mean the person believes or supports the cause or creed being celebrated, merely acknowledging the fact and the rights of others to do so.

All of this said, I believe that this was simply a thoughtless oversight on the part of the cameraman. Not a conscious disrespect but rather an example of someone "In their own little world". As such, courtesy demands he be given the opportunity to apologize to any who could choose to take offense. Simply informing him, in as courteous a manner as possible, that he may have missed the occasion would be sufficient. As in: “Pardon me sir, did you notice that we were singing the national anthem earlier?” If he should act the boor and take offense in return, it is his problem.