World War II Airman Found Frozen in Glacier

[scotrace]

Very terrible

Bugging me. So many families without word. Terrible.

In reading a fair amount about the war (dad was in the European Theatre, mostly through The Buldge as active infantry, though he joined up in late '41), it's just surprising that I would have missed this statistic. WWII missing account for the vast majority of total MIA still considered possibly "recoverable:" 78,000 out of 88,000 for all US wars. Of course, WWI would no longer be included, or the Civil War, etc. I suppose it is still possible that there are some men or remains remaining to be found from WWII, as with this fellow.

Also ran across this at the POW/MIA stat site: The longest held POW's in any war are Aboriginal Americans (Indians), held as conquered foe since 1540. The dead and missing are counted as "unknown: millions."

 

[jamespowers]

Here is some video from MSNBC.
http://video.msn.com/v/us/v.htm?g=5...75a-127bd96b7904&t=m5&f=06/64&p=News_Top News

Regards to all,

J

 

[Andykev]

Sole Survivor

Reminds me of the story of "lady Be Good" the B-24 found in the Libyan desert 16 years after WWII. One of my favorite WWII stories, inspiration for TV shows and Movies.

Jake, do you remember a made for t.v. show called "The Sole Survivor"? It is about a crew of WWII Airmen who are lost in the desert, waiting for rescue. They one by one disappear, and there is a disolve to a modern time with the body being found, ...until the last guy is tossing the ball all alone because his body was under the tail, and not found. I shall never forget that show. Did anyone else see it? Or remember it?

The Sole Survivor

 

[jamespowers]

Wasn't there a Twilight Zone episode about something like that? The bomber crashed in the desert and they started disappearing until there was just one left wondering where the rest had gone---finally realizing he was dead.

Regards to all,

J

 

[Roger]

Numbers don't match

This figure sounds a little off to me. Perhaps there are/were 78,000 missing in WWII but that leaves only 10,000 in Korea, 'Nam, Persian Gulf, and Iraq. There were over 10 million in the service during WWII. 52,000 men were killed during the three years of Korea, plus there were I think 5,000 missing from Chosin Reservoir alone. One battle 5,000 missing. 55,000 were killed during the 10 years of 'Nam. This figure doesn't sound right. I think it is much higher :cry:

 

[MikeyB17]

I have 'Sole Survivor' on DVD, although it's a fairly rough copy. I spent years trying to get hold of it-it's not commercially available. A chap got hold of the best copy he could find and put it on to DVD. It's a shame you can't get it, everyone has heard of 'That film about the bomber in the desert with the ghosts of the crew playing baseball', but it certainly hasn't been on UK TV for a good ten years. Mario Martinez wrote a book about the 'Lady Be Good', 'Lady's Men', which is actually not the greatest book ever, but still very interesting-a tragic story. I was hoping that with Libya's recent attempts to be more accepted by the international community, the remains of the 'Lady Be Good' could be taken home to the US-I believe they have languished in a Police compound in Libya for many years.

MB17

 

[Biltmore Bob]

Roger...

your red font is not easy to read on my monitor. Maybe it's just me.

 

[K.D. Lightner]

POWs

Got to website http://www.aiipowmia.com/stats/html

They give the number of POWs from all wars, all the way back to the Revoultionary War.

The numbers are way higher than the 78,000 figure....

karol

 

[K.D. Lightner]

MIAs

I meant to say POWs and MIAs. Fascinating site. If you cannot get on it from the website I listed, just type in the http://www.aiipowmia.com and it will come up.

I am also trying to search out how many WWI veterans are still alive, the last I read, and that was a year ago, there were only about 200 of them left and that was internationally -- and they were all over 100.

Not even sure how they knew how many MIAs there were from earlier times. I noticed they could not even estimate from the Indian Wars. How many were just guys who took off from the fighting, went back to their farms in Ohio and were never mustered out. Or found out.

karol

 

[jamespowers]

Not even sure how they knew how many MIAs there were from earlier times. I noticed they could not even estimate from the Indian Wars. How many were just guys who took off from the fighting, went back to their farms in Ohio and were never mustered out. Or found out.

That brings up a point my father used to mention. When he was in Korea, he said some of the guys just never went back. They took off and stayed there with girlfriends/wives and had their own families. They didn't go back for fear of being caught or bringing shame on their families.
I don't have first hand information and my father never elaborated which usually meant he knew more than he was willing to divulge. You could tell it made him mad though. It might be interesting to find out if this went on during the other wars.

Regards to all,

J

 

[K.D. Lightner]

I imagine it happened a lot in earlier wars, especially the Civil War where you had Americans killing Americans, that must have been awful -- it wounded our country in such a way that those wounds have never really heeled (I lived with a Southern friend and got a whole 'nother history lesson from her).

In the modern age, I suppose it would have become harder and harder to do -- just desert your duty, go live in another country, and find a new life. Just as, with the advent of DNA, there will probably be no more tombs of unknown soldiers. I think there was only one from the Vietnam War and he was finally identified.

I cannot imagine there would be lots of MIAs who deserted, but probably there were more than we thought, especially in those wars where men were drafted.

karol

 

[Jake]

Wasn't there a Twilight Zone episode about something like that? The bomber crashed in the desert and they started disappearing until there was just one left wondering where the rest had gone---finally realizing he was dead.

Regards to all,

J

There was a twilight zone episode base on lady be good, it starred Rob't Cummings. Only he wasn't dead he had missed the mission and 16 years later when they found the plane and reported it, he went into a coma and dreamed he was at the crash site looking for the crew. When he woke up they found sand in his shoes as if he had really been there. Andykev, I remember the sole survivor, he was played by Willaim Shatner.

 

[MikeyB17]

Andykev, I remember the sole survivor, he was played by Willaim Shatner.

Actually it was Richard Basehart-Shatner played the investigating officer.

MB17

 

[jamespowers]

There was a twilight zone episode base on lady be good, it starred Rob't Cummings. Only he wasn't dead he had missed the mission and 16 years later when they found the plane and reported it, he went into a coma and dreamed he was at the crash site looking for the crew. When he woke up they found sand in his shoes as if he had really been there.

That's the premise. Now I remember. It has been years since I saw it. Thanks for dredging that one up. :cheers1:

Regards to all,

J

 

[Roger]

A lot of urban legend

Desertion rate high? I don't think there was that high of a desertion rate. Just recently some guy from N. Korea was found and let go to Japan. He deserted in 1964 and said there was only him and three others that he knew of. Once someone deserted where was he going to go? He didn't know the language, didn't have a map. Unless he was in some island in the South Pacific and lived on a beach and fished I don't see how he could survive with a new life. In Korea, where was he going to go? Walk into China? Swim into Russia or Japan? It doesn't make sense. In Germany he could have made it into the Iron Curtain or up into the mountains of Northern Italy, but without the lingo he'd be lost. Perhaps if he was the child of immigrants and had a fleeting knowledge of Polish, Italian, Spanish he could scrape by. But, with the U.S. controlling Western Europe, sans Spain and Portugal, he'd have to go to the Iron Curtain to avoid prosecution, and the Reds would have immedieately labeled him a spy. With the collapse of the Iron Curtain in 1989 we would have fished all the deserters by now. I don't think the rate was that high.

 

[MrBern]

Actually it was Richard Basehart-Shatner played the investigating officer.

MB17

Hey, I remembr that tv movie! Wasnt the plane named "HomeRun"?
I recall being excited that Shatner appeared in it.
Wasnt the ending a bit supernatural like a TwilightZone episode?

Its a shame how many little movies from back then have slipped away since vcrs werent very common. VCRs will be around for many more years as so many tapes havent appeared as DVD yet.
-Bernard

 

[MikeyB17]

Everybody remembers it! How many have actually seen it in the last ten years? It seems to have disappeared off the screen these days. In fact, the whole film was fairly supernatural, as it features, you may recall, the ghosts of the crew standing around the plane playing baseball. At the end, they disappear one by one as their bodies are found by the investigating team, all except one whose body lies under the tail.

MB17

 

[Big Man]

"I imagine it happened a lot in earlier wars, especially the Civil War where you had Americans killing Americans, that must have been awful -- it wounded our country in such a way that those wounds have never really heeled (I lived with a Southern friend and got a whole 'nother history lesson from her). ..."

My Greatgrandfather joined the Confederate army in 1862. He was assigned duty at a prison camp in the mountains of North Carolina. My Greatgrandfather often told the story that he had been assigned to the firing squad. They were to execute prisoners who were captured deserters from the CSA.

He said that it was the custom of the times for the condemned man's family to come visit just prior to the time of the execution. On one occasion, there was a man scheduled to die who was from my Greatgrandfather's home town in Polk County, NC. The man's family came to visit and his little daughter, about 8 or 10 years old, came up to my Greatgrandfather and said, "Please, Mr. Brown, don't kill my Daddy in the morning."

This weighed heavy on my Greatgrandfather, and he and his best friend talked it over. They decided there was no way they could participate in the execution, so that evening they told the Sergeant of the Guard that they were going to the spring to get water, and "hit the gate and never looked back."

They crossed the mountains to the Cumberland Gap in Tennessee and joined the Union army for the duration of the war.

From the stories I was brought up on from my Grandmother (who lived during Reconstruction) and the often-told stories about my Greatgrandfather (who died in 1943), times in rural NC during and after the War were extremely difficult.

 

[scotrace]

Tank you

Mr. Brown, that kind of oral history is extremely valuable - I hope your family has it all recorded somewhere.

Thanks for posting this.

 

[K.D. Lightner]

Big Man -- Thanks, that is certainly some story. I have read similar accounts of men who were not willing to kill deserters.

Two of my maternal great-grandfathers fought in the Civil War. One was wounded in the knee, and, when the surgeons came around to cut off his leg, he grabbed his boots, held them up over his head and said, "the first one of you SOBs who comes near me to cut off my leg, I will strike." They left him alone -- years later, he felt an odd sensation in his ankle, reached down and was able to cut the musket ball out of his ankle.

How the thing got from his knee to his ankle, I will never know.

My other Grandfather would sneak behind Confederate Lines and steal food at night. He'd slip into the supply tents and take food back to his men. Never got caught at it.

karol