Will we ever see a return to more formal clothes?

[Tiller]

Pompidou - Would you hire a lawyer that didn't wear a suit if he was as good as Perry Mason?

I know this question is for Pompidou, but isn't it a general fact that the more successful the lawyer the more expensive the clothes? Every time I seen a lawyer just wearing a tie and shit, he is on a late night infomercial asking something like "Have you ever chewed on asbestos thinking it was cotton candy? If you have call Mike Donaldson! I will get you some cash fast. Cash that you deserve! Call me, Mike Donaldson today and I'll just throw the money right at you!!". The American flag is usually in the background and some song that is in the public domain is usually playing well balding "everyday man" Mike makes his pitch.

On the other hand men such as Johnny Cochrane tend to wear a nice suit, probably because it projects the image of success in the lawyer occupation.

I just came from a job interview this morning. I wore my olive pin stripe suit with brown spectators, white shirt, red tie and a white pocket square. This was an interview for an office position. The HR lady actually smirked at me and told me that if hired she hoped I would at least consider wearing jeans and a t shirt. I kind of just looked at her, and she said "C'mon, wouldn't you like to wear flip flops to work?" I kind of smiled and laughed a bit, but my head was screaming, "No Dear Jesus! Let's maintain some sort of professionalism here!!"

"Madam, I thought this was an office, not a beach resort!" lol

 

[bradford]

I just came from a job interview this morning. I wore my olive pin stripe suit with brown spectators, white shirt, red tie and a white pocket square. This was an interview for an office position.

You wore spectators and a white pocket square to an interview? That's just like shoving it in their faces. I wear a suit and tie every day, but I wouldn't wear a pocket square to an interview.

As for suits, I'm glad that shows like Mad Men and How I Met Your Mother do a good job of showing the younger generations how good a man looks in a suit and tie.

 

[pasnthru]

Ah Geez Bradford!! I've always worn some sort of pocket square whenever I don a sports jacket or suit. Maybe I should rethink that eh? Maybe I'll get a job.

 

[sheeplady]

We discussed this in my undergrad class the other day, in terms of how they have to dress for their final project.

I actually had a couple students tell me that they like to wear suits and would like to wear a suit for the final presentation and/or want to work in a job where they wear a suit everyday. (I don't require that they wear suits, just no flip flops and no jeans.)

This caused me to go into a diatribe on the horrific expense of business casual for a woman in the workplace. Which was not relevant to the 80% of my class that is male.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

This is very true. When I was first getting ready to go to real-estate school and getting ready to go into the field. The first thing I thought was about image. People want to think you're doing well and for that, you have to put on a good show. Now, at the time, I was driving my well-worn 1987 Chevy Caprice Wagon with one door that doesn't quite match, 3 windows that didn't work, and indoor/outdoor carpeting for a headliner, you don't want to see that pull up on your showing. Also, all I had was some dress pants and maybe 2 suits.

My first thought was to get nicer clothes, sport jackets, suits, etc, so I would appear successful, as well as a nice Cadillac, or Buick, something newer and upscale. You have to have an image of success and good clothes and presentation will do it.

I know this question is for Pompidou, but isn't it a general fact that the more successful the lawyer the more expensive the clothes? Every time I seen a lawyer just wearing a tie and shit, he is on a late night infomercial asking something like "Have you ever chewed on asbestos thinking it was cotton candy? If you have call Mike Donaldson! I will get you some cash fast. Cash that you deserve! Call me, Mike Donaldson today and I'll just throw the money right at you!!". The American flag is usually in the background and some song that is in the public domain is usually playing well balding "everyday man" Mike makes his pitch.

On the other hand men such as Johnny Cochrane tend to wear a nice suit, probably because it projects the image of success in the lawyer occupation.

 

[SeattleSparky]

In my opinion some sort of change IS underway, anyone ever hear of the Steampunks?? They sport some Victorian stuff!! Pretty cool actually!

 

[JimWagner]

I just came from a job interview this morning. I wore my olive pin stripe suit with brown spectators, white shirt, red tie and a white pocket square. This was an interview for an office position. The HR lady actually smirked at me and told me that if hired she hoped I would at least consider wearing jeans and a t shirt. I kind of just looked at her, and she said "C'mon, wouldn't you like to wear flip flops to work?" I kind of smiled and laughed a bit, but my head was screaming, "No Dear Jesus! Let's maintain some sort of professionalism here!!"

That incident actually raises an interesting question. How can you know in advance what is the best way to dress for an interview for an office job? It used to be a given that you'd wear a fairly conservative business suit. Now wearing a suit can actually negatively affect your chances of landing the job because you "don't fit in".

In the case above, apparently even wearing khakis and a golf shirt would have been over dressing.

 

[scottyrocks]

I'd rather go overdressed. During the interview, if it's not brought up, I would find a moment to ask what the dress code is. Then it's easy to reassure the interviewer that mode of dress is not an issue.

 

[Pompidou]

Calling the hiring manager and asking what the dress culture is at the company before the interview would probably be the best way to go. It'd show that you care deeply about fitting in.

 

[Widebrim]

When I've interviewed for a teaching profession (or even have just dropped off a resume' to the school secretary), I've almost without exception worn a suit. Here in southern California, teachers are not known for their high sartorial standards, but I have never received a negative response from a principal or interviewing staff. To the contrary, I have received admiring looks and positive comments. (Once while in the process of coming off active-duty, I went to an interview in full dress uniform, and was treated with great respect, but that is kind of upping the ante, so to speak. But I did get the position...)

 

[John in Covina]

That incident actually raises an interesting question. How can you know in advance what is the best way to dress for an interview for an office job? It used to be a given that you'd wear a fairly conservative business suit. Now wearing a suit can actually negatively affect your chances of landing the job because you "don't fit in".

In the case above, apparently even wearing khakis and a golf shirt would have been over dressing.

We had some interesting threads that revolve around what type of reactions does one get when dressed up. Some have actually been closed over the reaction of some of the posters. At this time in history we have some widely diverging ideas in this country and abroad as to the level of daily dress. Many people are so divorced from the concept of being dressed up for any type of event that they are now intimidated by anyone that does get dressed up. We may see people act out with scorn and even physical attack by total strangers have been reported. I live in the LA area an we recently had a guy beaten by Angelino thugs for wearing a Giants shirt to the Dodgers game resulting in a coma and brain damage. In the past we have had incidents across the US of youths in mobs acting like brigands sometime termed Wildings and now we had a shooting at a flash mob which has been used to divert police allocations to allow some type of robbery elsewhere.

Here in LA we maybe returning to the warzone feel of the 1960's thru 1980's where in many urban areas the veneer of civil society has worn thin or worn out completely.

In LA I have been to stores where the counter help dress exactly like they do on the weekend hanging out with their gansta friends.

 

[Widebrim]

Here in LA we maybe returning to the warzone feel of the 1960's thru 1980's where in many urban areas the veneer of civil society has worn thin or worn out completely.

In LA I have been to stores where the counter help dress exactly like they do on the weekend hanging out with their gansta friends.

You may be right about the warzone feel; I hope not. Regarding dress and work, it is one thing for a guy with hair hanging over his eyes to wear multiple body piercings, stove-pipe jeans, hi-top sneakers, and an old Sex Pistols t-shirt on his own time, but why is he allowed to do so while he bags my groceries? It's not an elitist thing on my part, lest I be accused of such, but rather a matter of what is appropriate in the work environment, and what will project a good image for the company one works for. What's good PR wardrobe for a head shop may not be so for Sears, Roebuck, and Co...The sad thing is, many consumers don't even seem to care anyway, or at least they don't complain about it, so such behavior will likely continue down its de-evolutionary slope.

 

[John in Covina]

There was a time when employees in a position of service were expected to dress a certain way or were given a "uniform" of sorts to reflect to the customer they were there to help.

 

[John in Covina]

You may be right about the warzone feel; I hope not. Regarding dress and work, it is one thing for a guy with hair hanging over his eyes to wear multiple body piercings, stove-pipe jeans, hi-top sneakers, and an old Sex Pistols t-shirt on his own time, but why is he allowed to do so while he bags my groceries? It's not an elitist thing on my part, lest I be accused of such, but rather a matter of what is appropriate in the work environment, and what will project a good image for the company one works for. What's good PR wardrobe for a head shop may not be so for Sears, Roebuck, and Co...The sad thing is, many consumers don't even seem to care anyway, or at least they don't complain about it, so such behavior will likely continue down its de-evolutionary slope.

I am most put off by certain regional aspects of dress here in LA: Flat brim ball cap pf local sports team, shiny local sports team shirt, shorts down past the knees, high socks, shaven head, lots of tatoos in old English script like CHATO, multiple tatoos on head, neck, face and hands and the definate look of poor decision making abilities resulting in multiple jail terms and proud of it. Or the I haven't had jail time yet but I look like it wanna be gang member. Using the F word 3 times in less than two incomplete sentences sort of in English.

 

[Pompidou]

You may be right about the warzone feel; I hope not. Regarding dress and work, it is one thing for a guy with hair hanging over his eyes to wear multiple body piercings, stove-pipe jeans, hi-top sneakers, and an old Sex Pistols t-shirt on his own time, but why is he allowed to do so while he bags my groceries? It's not an elitist thing on my part, lest I be accused of such, but rather a matter of what is appropriate in the work environment, and what will project a good image for the company one works for. What's good PR wardrobe for a head shop may not be so for Sears, Roebuck, and Co...The sad thing is, many consumers don't even seem to care anyway, or at least they don't complain about it, so such behavior will likely continue down its de-evolutionary slope.

You get what you pay for. I was a supervisor/judge/racing official at a greyhound race track till it went out of business. There were photos on the walls of the old days. The entry level people who walked the dogs out to the starting boxes all had casino suits, or bellboy uniforms - something to that effect. They also got paid well above what was minimum wage. Thus, the track had the bargaining power to turn down prospective employees and tended to attract sharp college students. By the time I got hired, said staff started at minimum wage and dress codes declined to near nonexistence. Pay people the wages they're expected to dress for. It tends to work. If you give the lowest compensation for work allowed by law, you'll get the lowest quality of work allowed by company policy.

 

[Widebrim]

^^That can be the case, yet when I started as a college student at the local J.C. Penneys, I received minimum wage, but was expected to wear a dress shirt and necktie every day.

 

[John in Covina]

You get what you pay for. I was a supervisor/judge/racing official at a greyhound race track till it went out of business. There were photos on the walls of the old days. The entry level people who walked the dogs out to the starting boxes all had casino suits, or bellboy uniforms - something to that effect. They also got paid well above what was minimum wage. Thus, the track had the bargaining power to turn down prospective employees and tended to attract sharp college students. By the time I got hired, said staff started at minimum wage and dress codes declined to near nonexistence. Pay people the wages they're expected to dress for. It tends to work. If you give the lowest compensation for work allowed by law, you'll get the lowest quality of work allowed by company policy.

Actually in the past people worked for their wages and even at minimum wage there was a sense of responsibility. There are levels of work where you don't start people off at double the going rate as incentive. If you show iniciative and are consciencious (SP) at what you do then it behooves the employer to give you better wages. If you come in and don't perform why would you expect better pay? It works both ways, and it is the performance of the woikah that preceedes advancement not the expectations of the employer.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

When I worked at K-Mart, a cashier was asked to work in Electronics with me for a few days. He showed up in a dress shirt and tie, which I thought was very nice. He got written up because dress code was black pants and a red polo.

 

[Widebrim]

I am most put off by certain regional aspects of dress here in LA: Flat brim ball cap pf local sports team, shiny local sports team shirt, shorts down past the knees, high socks, shaven head, lots of tatoos in old English script like CHATO, multiple tatoos on head, neck, face and hands and the definate look of poor decision making abilities resulting in multiple jail terms and proud of it. Or the I haven't had jail time yet but I look like it wanna be gang member. Using the F word 3 times in less than two incomplete sentences sort of in English.

John, were you at the Chinatown Metro train station yesterday, the one right across from HOMEBOY industries? What you describe is what I saw/heard, except you left out using the F word over the glued-to-the-ear cellphone...("CHATO." That's a good one...lol)

 

[JimWagner]

Regarding dress and work, it is one thing for a guy with hair hanging over his eyes to wear multiple body piercings, stove-pipe jeans, hi-top sneakers, and an old Sex Pistols t-shirt on his own time, but why is he allowed to do so while he bags my groceries?

In that particular example, maybe it's because bagging groceries is a minimum wage job and even getting someone to take that job is tough enough without expecting them to buy a new wardrobe. A kid that looks presentable by your (and probably my) standards is either smart enough to find a higher paying job or doesn't need/want one.

I bagged groceries while in high school in the early 60's for 50 cents an hour, less than (then) minimum wage, and quit doing so as soon as I managed to land a school bus driver job. Driving a school bus for $40 a month was more than I could make bagging groceries 15-20 hours a week back then.