Why the Indiana Jones hat?

[Pat_H]

Not to be argumentative Kaosharper, but I don't see any similarity in the two hats other than they are both felt. IJ- 5 3/4 crown, center dent with high tight pinches ending in a razor sharp crease at the front, 16 ligne ribbon, 2 3/4 raw brim with an almost never done dimensional cut to 2 1/2 on the sides VS 5 3/4 crown, deep diamond crease with no head "bump", approx 2 3/8 brim, conventional meeting of the pinches at front...I just don't agree with your statement.

As for the original question, I agree with the "adventurer" theory in that most of us, once we grow up, live rather rote & mundane lives. We need to to make headway in life, so this just gives us the chance to be the "kid" we all see in the mirror.

Art, are the Fedoras in The Sting true to the era that film portrays?

 

[Pat_H]

I also think the wearing of that hat without the suit appealed more to the non suit wearers than something like road to perdition.[huh]

There's probably something to that. Even though, in the 20s-40s, men wore Fedoras, and other hats, no matter how they were dressed, in the popular mind they were likely associated with suits before the movies.

 

[Pat_H]

What I object to is the presumption that anybody wearing a brown fedora (no, it doesn't have to be wide brimmed) is aping IJ. If you "wanna be" a fictional character, fine, but I want to be myself. When I wear my hats, that's who I'm being.

I know I can't keep people from making the associations, but I still think they're absurd. Imagine if you couldn't play the guitar without someone saying, "Hey Hendrix! You're playing the guitar just like Hendrix! You must wanna be just like Hendrix man!" Or if you couldn't ride a motorcycle without people calling you "James Dean." Ridiculous.

Again, my feeling also (and I had a thread about it recently, noting that I was thinking of looking for another color Fedora to avoid the comments).

I do like these films. But I liked Fedoras before the films.

Funny, you wouldn't walk up to somebody wearing a New York Yankees hat and say "Hey Babe"!

 

[DutchIndo]

Funny when I think of Fedoras I think of Brodrick Crawford in Highway Patrol or Gene Hackman in Uncommon Valor.

 

[Fredthecat]

I also find the Indiana Jones / fedora association somewhat annoying. Lots of great movies have men in hats. I was wearing them daily LONG before Indy hit the big screen and I continue today. I wear them to be Fred not some movie character. Indy hat comments only seem to arise when wearing a brown fedora, (shaped nothing like his) not grey, green or silver belly.

However, I was weaned on radio adventure shows and 25 cent Saturday movie matinees. Before the feature there was ALWAYS a cartoon and then a serial in which the hero would undoubtedly be left hanging over a cliff or seemingly blown up until we found out how he escaped in “Chapter 4, next week, ONLY at this theater”. Hence the name cliff hangers. His hat NEVER came off…car crashes, train wrecks, fist fights…hat NEVER came off. Cool! Spysmasher was GREAT and Holt of the Secret Service too!

The Indiana Jones flicks are like feature length serials, action, adventure, action. Great fun! Escapism at it’s finest, without drugs.

If that’s what it takes to bring back hats, make more Indy movies. Go Indiana!

Grandmother TheCat used to tell me “A MAN IS NOT PROPERLY DRESSED WITHOUT A HAT”. I fell for that too.


“The weed of crime bears BITTER fruit, crime does NOT pay….The Shadow knows….”

Fredthecat

 

[Not-Bogart13]

Even though I love Indy, the Indy Hat, and the fact that it drums up popularity for hat wearing - I do find the constant association annoying. But I blame the ignorant people who make the association, not the Indy phenomenon. People always make simple, shorthand-type connections to things, especially if they are even remotely iconic in nature. You try to be yourself in any way, and there's always somebody ready to lump you in with some aspect of pop culture. I think, as hat enthusiasts, we tend to notice the Indy Hat thing, but it's only one example. Own a classic Mustang, you get the Bullit remarks. Wear black - you get the funeral and undertaker remarks. Motorcycles, crewcuts, black leather jackets, more than one necklace on a man (Mr. T for those playing catch-up).

It's inescapable. What's worse is, you - reda this - may be one of the Guilty! So before you single out the Indy Hat association, sit down and take a look at all the other cool (or not so cool) stuff in life is burned into our collective brains along with something else.

 

[RBH]

Truth of the matter is I get more ''Hey there cowboy" with my fedoras than any Indy remarks. And I seldom wear my Tony Lamas anymore!

 

[drjones]

indy shaped my life

I agree that Indy is a cool character. Yes...he does partly come from the '30s serials. I watched the first one as a kid and it made me want to know more about archaeologists. Im now a REAL one. (at least by schooling)....and yes...I wear my fedora often.

DRJONES

 

[johnnycanuck]

Getting annoyed by the Indiana Jones comments when wearing a fedora is like getting annoyed at the "Skirt" comments when wearing a kilt. Its going to happen so just accept it. Remember to take all of them as complements and you will be fine, because most of them will be compliments.

I started wearing a hat when I was in my teens. As a scouter I was rarely inside and I hated sunburns, so I wore a Tilly. Years later in mexico I met up with a scouter from Argentina that had a felt scout hat. Looked a hell of a lot nicer them my beat up 7 year old Tilley. So when I returned to Canada I started looking for a nice felt hat. I came across Indygear.com then Obi Wan Club then Hatsdirect.... "wow I can have a hat exactly like indiana Jones" End of story.

That said, if I had come across the Akubra "Croc" first I would have said "Wow a Corocodle Dundee Hat Cool" and I would have been wearing that one first. Its all about familiarity. I saw that hat on Harrison Ford - Harrison Ford is cool - that hat is cool - I think I will look as cool in that hat. Also I know what the federation looked like because of Indiana Jones, I don't know what the CEO looked like on anyone. Again Familiarity.

My thoughts on the matter

Johnny

 

[Yohanes]

I wonder... is there any specific vintage hat model that resembles IJ hat the most?

Or in other words,

What vintage hat model does IJ hat refer to?

 

[airforceindy]

Best answer I can give to that is the Herbert Johnson Poet. In case you don't know, HJ is a very old hatter in Bond Street, London. The Poet was the hat used in Raiders, though the actual model name has been hotly debated (Poet, Australian, etc.). I don't know how long the Poet itself has been in production, but most new models of hats come about as 'improved' versions of the previous generation. Find the progenitor(s) of the Poet, and you've got your vintage-correct Indiana Jones hat.

Regards, Andy

 

[Pat_H]

I think you've listed some good reasons. Personally, I've always been a bit annoyed at the association, and didn't even think of IJ's hat as being a fedora until I started shopping for my first fedora and found that almost every hat store online has something they're claiming is an IJ hat.

You raise an interesting point with that item. On tv it's often the case that somebody trying to replicate the Indy style actually wears a Australian style broad brimmed hat. The crowns are somewhat similiar, and a lot of people don't know the difference. I'd be those who wear that type of hat get a lot of Indy comments also.

Indeed, there's one young business man here in this town who wears an Australian hat all the time with his business suit. I know he thinks it's a Fedora.

 

[Spellflower]

For a long time I thought Indy's hat was leather, and I bet most random people on the street under 50 would be hard pressed to tell you what it was made of.

I wore a suede outback hat (with the brim down all around) for years, with whatever clothes I had on (including the rare suit). I cringe now to think of it, but hey, I just didn't know any better.

If you really wanna laugh at what passes for an "Indy" hat, and what some of them sell for, check out this place.

 

[Spellflower]

Airforce Indy, it's true that the hat used in the movie was the Poet, but it was my impression that this was a 1980's HJ, not a 1930's one. It would make sense that they would choose a hat that was in production so they could get enough to use and abuse. I know Art has questioned the appropriateness of this style for the period, commenting that it looks more like a 40s hat than a 30's one.

I wonder what hat IJ would have "really" worn? Was the Poet even a real option for an American in the 30's? Did it exist as a style?

 

[Rick Blaine]

For a long time I thought Indy's hat was leather, and I bet most random people on the street under 50 would be hard pressed to tell you what it was made of.

I wore a suede outback hat (with the brim down all around) for years, with whatever clothes I had on (including the rare suit). I cringe now to think of it, but hey, I just didn't know any better.

If you really wanna laugh at what passes for an "Indy" hat, and what some of them sell for, check out this place.

Heck, you can get that cloth IJ hat at the Dreamworks official site for $21.99... whatta buncha jerks!

 

[Spellflower]

You can also get a pure beaver Indy made by the same guy who made the one on Ford's head for a few hundred less than the one on this site. But I don't know where you'll find that slick baseball cap for less .

 

[Stan]

Hi,

First off, Add me to the list that thinks Indy is just plain cool!

However, it was not Indy that first had me wearing a Fedora. Heck, I think Lucas had yet to film THX1138 when I got my first Fedora.

For me, it it was Robert Stack as Elliot Ness (The Untouchables TV series). This was an old show in syndication on TV in the late afternoons when I was a kid. I liked the hats *and* the gats *and* the cars as well as the characters....

One day, I asked my dad where I could get a hat like that. He went downstairs into the basement, opened up his cedar closet, and came back with a brown Fedora with a black band. He said, 'here you go'. So, I now had a hat like Elliot's (sort of) that was way too big for me, but I could wear it while watching my favorite 'after school and just before dinner' show.

Fast forward about eight years, and I was just old enough to drive, and had a 175cc motorcycle as my first vehicle. Dad came up with an old A2 USAAF leather jacket which I was told to wear, along with high work boots and a helmet of course, 'or else'. With dad, there were few rules, but those he had mostly had to do with safety and in this case, violating them meant I'd find the bike in pieces in the garage the next morning. Dad was an excellent mechanic.....

At that time, I was the same size in most things as dad was, so all his old stuff fit me. Handy.

Along about this time, we were into Star Wars. I'm sure Indy was in George's head already, but we had yet to meet him on the sliver screen. I was riding with the boots and leather jacket, and since I wore a crew cut I also carried that old Fedora in the bag on the back of the bike for when I wasn't riding. Crew Cuts can be downright chilly sometimes.....

Note what we have the makings of here. Heck, when Raiders was first out, I went to the theater to see it on the bike (only by then it was a 500 not a 175), wearing the A2, boots and had put the Fedora on to wait in line. It never occured to me that I had played dress-up to see a movie!

Talk about getting the 'Dr Jones' comments! I didn't have a whip, though!!

I still wear A2 leather jackets, work boots and hats, and all for the same reasons as I ever did. They all serve a practical purpose. In the case of a hat, it keeps most of the 80% body heat loss in check. I still wear the crew cut, and it still can get downright chilly without a hat.

Now, the original boots, A2 and Fedora are gone forever. Heck, everything wears out eventually. The Fedora eventually got so ratty that I only wore it as a working hat, and it wound up soaked in a pan of drain oil at a Saturday Night Bullring racetrack along about the year 2000 or so when it blew off the toolbox when I was on the track wearing yet another helmet.....

Anyway, yet another Indiana Jones movie is about to come out. I'm all prepared for the Indy comments from everyone. I'll just smile and say I forgot the whip at home! :eusa_doh:

Later!

Stan

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Why the Indy Jones hat?

It can't be because of how it looks on the wearers, because the hat doesn't suit most of the people i've seen wearing it. The dimensions of the hat are not moderate, which is what would suit most people. The brim is relatively wide and the crown quite tall. It looks really silly on short people, because they don't alter the dimensions for smaller head sizes.

In short, i have no reason why the hat is so popular. But then, i also have no idea why the movies are so popular *yucky*

bk

 

[John in Covina]

Celebrity

There is a phenomenon that reasserts itself over time, when the celebrities become role models in a variety of ways. Some may recall that the sales of undershirts was hurt badly when Clark Gable shows up in a film where you see he is not wearing one. It molded the idea of what a man was and what he wore.

The idea of wanting to emulate a celbrity or film persona comes up now and again in a variety of ways. James Bond's Connery was and still is an iconic influence in the 60's when the first films came out. So was Schwarzenegger in the Terminator. It may be clothes or just a phrase like "I'll Be Back" or the Diry Harry's "Make My Day" somehow it just registers with the time.

Speilberg and Lucas were savy with the idea of merchandising and the IJ hat probably went much furter than they would have guessed originally.

For me the seeds of the desire for a "real" man's hat and what consituted the pinnacle of men's fashion were planted over time from the TV series Superman with George Reeves, or the occasional Robert Stack Untouchables along with many old B&W films all pointing the way to a liking of vintage fashions. Seeing the Sting added to the allure, but for me it was seeing the movie "Mulholland Falls" on VHS when the video came out that sent me to the Hats Mart in Pasadena to get my Stetson Souvreign.

The IJ films are appealing and have also shaped my ideas of the model of manhood and for many it was the single element that flipped the switch in their thinking. It was a matter of timing perhaps as the right influence at the right time.

The "why" is a great question and it leads to the idea of how to predict that next big thing. Is it formulaic or are there too many intangiables to deal with to really say?

 

[airforceindy]

Airforce Indy, it's true that the hat used in the movie was the Poet, but it was my impression that this was a 1980's HJ, not a 1930's one. It would make sense that they would choose a hat that was in production so they could get enough to use and abuse. I know Art has questioned the appropriateness of this style for the period, commenting that it looks more like a 40s hat than a 30's one.

Spellflower, you're absolutely correct about the Poets used in the films being '80s models, or perhaps late '70s (a bit of a stretch, but possible). What I was suggesting was that we look to the hats that inspired the Poet to find the appropriate hat that would have been contemporary to the character of Indiana Jones. I said,
"I don't know how long the Poet itself has been in production, but most new models of hats come about as 'improved' versions of the previous generation. Find the progenitor(s) of the Poet, and you've got your vintage-correct Indiana Jones hat."
Also, let's remind ourselves that Indiana Jones is a fantasy. It's based on old serial television shows/movies (that I am unfortunately FAR too young to recall or have seen) that were not historically accurate but were rather made to entertain. Therefore, suggestion was often times enough to get by, as is the case Indiana's hat. By and large, people associate the fedora with that whole era, and don't get down to the nitty gritty of which hat was more appropriate for which decade. So, in essence, it's rather a mute point. Indiana Jones (in real life) would have worn whatever most closely resembled the HJ Poet featured in Raiders, because that was his preference. Chances are, if he couldn't find what he liked, he would have gone to his hatter and had it custom made for $12.50; I think that's entirely plausible on a university professor's salary, don't you?

Regards, Andy