Why is my crown so soft?

[KevKaos59]

Soft but to soft?

I am still a noob, and trying to learn all the ins and out of vintage hats. I now have 1 new Bailey, and 5 vintage (early 60's) hats. I think all my "old" hats are from around the same time, but there is a vast difference between them and I can't figure out if it's because they were lesser quality from the start, poor maintenance over the years, or what. I have a Stetson Royal De Lux (wearing today) and a Dobbs that have a nice stiff feel to the brims (they snap up or down nicely) and the crowns pretty much bounce right back to their intended shape. I also have an Anthony with a pinch crown and a Bond with the same. I love the way these hats look in regards to shape, but they both have no rebound to them and the brims don't feel as thick. Actually, the felt overall doesn't feel as thick. One of them is even stamped "Beaver XXX" inside the sweatband. Both where extremely dirty when I got them, but they have cleaned up nicely and I basically consider them my brown and grey beaters but would love it if they just had a firmer feel to them. I guess what I am asking, is this something that can be corrected with blocking? Do hat blockers use anything to help hats hold their shape? I am really clueless in the ways of hat blocking and maintenance.

 

[Not-Bogart13]

Try this!
http://www.noggintops.com/page.cfm?p=88

 

[carldelo]

In general, a hat that is able to take a bash and hold it (as opposed to stiffly bouncing back) is considered superior. Good quality felt can be manipulated at will to give the hat the shape you want. As N-B posted, stiffener can be used to hold felt in a given shape, but most would not subject a vintage hat with good bash-ability to a stiffening treatment.

 

[KevKaos59]

I guess I will have to get some pics up to show what I mean. I think the main issue is that the shape is not exactly uniformed, meaning that the top of the crown doesn't really hold its shape. maybe it just needs to be reblocked and shaped. The one particular hat is the only beaver felt I have, and I wonder if it might be worth sending off to a pro for blocking, shaping, and replacing the old ribbon which has a very small rip in the back. I hate to think what that is going to cost.

 

[fenris]

You could try hair spray on the hat... I've heard of some people using Aqua Net or something like it to stiffen the felt. Felt is basically hair, right?

*ADDENDUM*

Don't use too much, though... Aside from the smell, too much hair spray might STIFFEN the felt too much and leave residue of some kind. Better to get the felt stiffener product. Of course, in a pinch, hair spray will do the job (so I've read... I just use steam).

Also, try spraying it from the inside of the hat. Remove the liner then spray it just to make sure it doesn't create unwanted discoloring.

 

[KevKaos59]

You may have hit on the actuall question that I should be asking. Does the use of steam "firm up" felt? I know I am not being as clear as I possibly could be, but I am so new, I don't even know the right questions to ask.

 

[Brad Bowers]

You may have hit on the actuall question that I should be asking. Does the use of steam "firm up" felt? I know I am not being as clear as I possibly could be, but I am so new, I don't even know the right questions to ask.

Yes, the heat will reactivate the shellac in the felt to a certain extent, making the felt stiffer for a while.

Brad

 

[Rick Blaine]

 

[fenris]

On the "steamer" thread, I told the story of accidentally steaming my hat's crown when my car overheated. The steam hit the tip of the crown... exactly where the front pinch I've been trying to fix was.

At first I thought, "hmmmm... I gotta give this a try." I removed my hat and steamed the tip of the crown. Pinched it higher and the pinch settled and didn't go back to its original lower position. So I guess the steam kinda "stiffened" it... but just to the point that it could hold the shape, not to the point it was hard. My hat is still soft and floppy.

 

[AlterEgo]

First, let me say this: If ever there was a do-it-yourselfer, it is I, but I have a lot of experience monkeying with hats, and you don't.

Second, I am no expert on vintage hats, but I know enough to provide advice for your situation.

If the hats have no damage to the felt itself, like moth holes, bullet holes, black holes (from which nothing, not even light, can escape), you should not attempt to alter the felt yourself even with a quality product like Bickmore's. If one or more of the hats has such substantial felt damage, then definitely experiment away, as it will be no great loss even if it becomes as rigid as Odd Job's, and it will be a good learning experience for you.

Chances may be that what you regard as too soft may very well be just well worn old felt some here salivate at the mere mention of; no one could really tell without the opportunity to handle them. It could be that the Stetson and Dobbs were better hats from the get-go, and then again they may be of more recent vintage than the others, and so more stiff.

It's not inexpensive, but I'd have the hats professionally cleaned and blocked by one of the vendors recommended by members here. That'll put the right amount of stiff in, not to mention greatly improving the look and wearability, as well as lengthening their useful life. You don't have to do them all at the same time, of course, but once you get the first one back, you'll see what an amazing difference a top-notch cleaning and blocking does for a hat. And with reasonably good care, it could last for decades.

 

[kasperbs]

Hi,
I have bought a vintage Dobbs fedora and it feels a little different from the other hats I have handled.

The brim is not stiff. You can kind of snap it up or down. I have seen this before, but the crown is also very soft and you can press creases in the crown with your fingers.

My dads fedora is stiff all the way around. The brim is fixed and the crown is more hardened.

Is that because of the age, is it on purpose or is it just the style?

It doesn't bother me as it looks great, but there is a small collection of creases, like it's wrinkled at the front under the ribbon, which looks a little like they shouldn't be there.

 

[150719541]

Pastes hats usually come from manufactures in d
iferentes hardnesses.
You need steam ironing your hat.
You can iron it to your liking.
If the paste is good, the hat will be very comfortable
Cheers ¡¡¡

 

[LoveMyHats2]

Hello. I will try to answer this a bit for you. Some hats (depending on material, such as a wool form shaped fedora) will have a fair amount of a spray or dipped solution called "hat stiffener" in it, which is similar to a shellac.

Perhaps many fedora type hats will also have some of this hat stiffener solution on the brim or crown of the hat, to help hold a particular shape or to support a wider brim, you will find this on many western/cowboy hats.

Note that if you have a hat (not recommend you to do this if the hat is a wool hat) that has some creases you wish to try to smooth out, you can boil some distilled water in a kettle, hold the hat close and let the steam go onto the felt of the hat, move the hat around the steam around a bit, then use your fingers to push the creases out and smooth them....you will get the hang of it

 

[Joshbru3]

Hi,
Why is my crown so soft?

That's kind of a loaded question because there's actually many answers. If you are talking about a fur felt hat, which I believe you are, there's a couple key factors. When I buy vintage felt hats, usually the felt tends to be floppy and wont hold a crease very well. As soon as I do some steaming, the steam reactivates the shellac that's been impregnated into the hat and it will firm up. Now, that being said, the firmness of most vintage felts is NO WHERE near the firmness of a modern day felt. Depending on how "vintage" your Dobbs is, before the late 60's even lower grade felt was felted very densely and therefore required less shellac. Different "weights" of felt require different amounts of shellac so you have to compare apples to apples. If your Dobbs is a mid 60's and earlier hat that's a standard dress weight (not lightweight or featherweight) than most likely the felt is very dense and when steam is applied will firm up, but still have that great mold-ability. A modern day felt hat from a major manufacture tends to be very firm because not only do they put more shellac into the hat, the felt isn't felted as densely and needs that added shellac for stability. Also, most modern day felt hats are pressed into form (verses selling most new hats in open crown form), so the shellac holds that form for a long time. Steam will allow you to manipulate even the firmest and thicket felt, but remember once off the steam, those hats with more shellac will also "set-up" quicker.

 

[kasperbs]

Thanks a lot for all the brilliant answers. I have send out a few emails to some hat makers in my country to see, if they can help me with the process of steaming it into a uniform shape.

 

[Mystic]

That's kind of a loaded question because there's actually many answers. If you are talking about a fur felt hat, which I believe you are, there's a couple key factors. When I buy vintage felt hats, usually the felt tends to be floppy and wont hold a crease very well. As soon as I do some steaming, the steam reactivates the shellac that's been impregnated into the hat and it will firm up. Now, that being said, the firmness of most vintage felts is NO WHERE near the firmness of a modern day felt. Depending on how "vintage" your Dobbs is, before the late 60's even lower grade felt was felted very densely and therefore required less shellac. Different "weights" of felt require different amounts of shellac so you have to compare apples to apples. If your Dobbs is a mid 60's and earlier hat that's a standard dress weight (not lightweight or featherweight) than most likely the felt is very dense and when steam is applied will firm up, but still have that great mold-ability. A modern day felt hat from a major manufacture tends to be very firm because not only do they put more shellac into the hat, the felt isn't felted as densely and needs that added shellac for stability. Also, most modern day felt hats are pressed into form (verses selling most new hats in open crown form), so the shellac holds that form for a long time. Steam will allow you to manipulate even the firmest and thicket felt, but remember once off the steam, those hats with more shellac will also "set-up" quicker.

Excellent response, Josh

Clear, concise, through, helpful and instructive :thumb: