Which word for sweater do you prefer?

[BlueTrain]

I use the word sweater myself but it doesn't bother me when anyone uses another word. I understand completely, provided the other person is talking about what I think he's talking about. But sometimes they don't know either.

To me, however, "a tank top" sounds like a female garment. If a man's undershirt doesn't have sleeves like a t-shirt, then it's an undershirt, not a tank top. Women do not generally wear undershirts. But I understand the British wear vests as an undergarment. Americans do not. European men wear slips, American women used to (haven't noticed any lately down South). For a while, in the early 1960s and perhaps earlier, pullover garments were often referred to as "popovers," a term I haven't seen used for that meaning for a long time.

I have heard the term singlet but I just thought that's what they used to wear under a doublet.

 

[Hal]

To me, however, "a tank top" sounds like a female garment. If a man's undershirt doesn't have sleeves like a t-shirt, then it's an undershirt, not a tank top...But I understand the British wear vests as an undergarment. Americans do not...I have heard the term singlet but I just thought that's what they used to wear under a doublet.

I also don't like the expression "tank top" - it can mean sleeveless pullover (American "sweater vest") or athletic undershirt (A-shirt), which is the same thing as a singlet. The word "vest" in British English is the same as "undershirt" in American; traditionally it refers to all varieties of this garment, with and without sleeves, but recently the word "vest" has often been used to mean "singlet" or A-shirt". Confusing? Yes!

 

[El Marro]

I call them sweaters. I had never heard the word jumper used for a sweater before I started looking at TFL. It's one of several neat words or phrases I have picked up from the members here.

 

[wdw]

As a Scot, definitely jumper. Sweater sounds posh English to me.

I get tank top, but it has a very 70s connotation to me, and would now use sleeveless jumper instead.

 

[basbol13]

As a Scot, definitely jumper. Sweater sounds posh English to me.

I get tank top, but it has a very 70s connotation to me, and would now use sleeveless jumper instead.

I've always liked the word POSH as it makes me think of the 1920's. Since I'm not from the United Kingdom, I'm going to ask you to define....POSH?

 

[wdw]

Ha. To me, posh is simply upper class, or maybe upper middle class. It comes from breeding, refinement and deportment. It's not something money can buy.

 

[basbol13]

Ha. To me, posh is simply upper class, or maybe upper middle class. It comes from breeding, refinement and deportment. It's not something money can buy.

To me POSH is....... Port Out Starboard Home.......so to me it's what $$$$$ can buy.

 

[wdw]

Yes, but money doesn't make you posh. Although it does allow you to pretend.

 

[Ticklishchap]

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/port-out-starboard-home.html

The above is a good summary ('for American audiences') of the origin and connotations of the word. However, there is also a relatively new shade of meaning associated with 'new moneyed' or essentially 'vulgar' who attempt to 'talk proper' (i.e. speak standard English) and get it wrong by over-exaggerating. They make similar attempts to buy 'high end' furniture ('high end' is one of their phrases) but finish up with embarrassing over-sized chandeliers, etc. If they move 'out' to the country, they wear over-priced and usually fake country clothing and drive monstrous, tank-like 4x4s. It is always interesting to hear them revert to their true voices when they are over-excited or annoyed. Their laughs are always a dead giveaway. Even where they successfully change their accents, the rhythm reflects their underlying dialect. They also have giveaway words like 'serviette', settee' and 'pardon'.
'Cockney Posh' is a local variant on this theme, as is 'Yorkshire Posh'.
Genuine working-class voices and speech patterns are attractive, rich and varied. Cockney Posh, Yorkshire Posh, etc. have lost that variety and spontaneity but put nothing in its place.
American readers will be reminded by this of George Bernard Shaw, who said that one Englishman has only to open his mouth for another Englishman to despise him. Americans often quote this at me. He also observed that the British and Americans are 'two peoples divided by a common language'.
Americans always say that they have no snobbery, but I have heard American friends turn their noses up at, say, Brooklyn accents [I wonder if there is 'Brooklyn Posh']. ...

 

[wdw]

That's an interesting link, @Ticklishchap.

People often seem to associate being posh with having money, but there are plenty of poor posh people around, as well as lots of rich posh wannabees, but never will bes. It's all to do with background, attitude, behaviour and interests.

 

[Ticklishchap]

Thanks @wdw. You can have various degrees of shabby gentility which are often 'the real deal' in terms of poshdom. Penelope Keith's character Audrey fforbes-Hamilton in 'To the Manor Born' is an example. Her character Margo Leadbeater in 'The Good Life' is new money and one step above Cockney Posh. Mollie Sugden's Mrs Slocombe in 'Are You Being Served' is perfect Yorkshire Posh!

 

[Ticklishchap]

In the grim world of current affairs (I won't dignify it with the word politics), Nigel Farage is a great example of Cockney Posh. He went to a minor public (that means private!) school but is a barrow boy when you scratch the surface. The over-sized Mr Toad style Tweed caps are a dead giveaway as is the way he always turns questions on himself: 'Did I say that? Yes I did' etc., with a slight upward inflection. He also says 'naow' and 'show' instead of 'now and 'how'. Populist Posh perhaps?

 

[Ticklishchap]

Meanwhile, across The Pond, gold elevators are just plain Nouveau Riche. ...

 

[Ticklishchap]

Nigel also pronounces his political party 'Yew-Kip' (instead of 'UKIP') and would probably say 'on swaite' instead of 'en suite'.

 

[Ticklishchap]

Saturday morning chores also got me thinking about the archetypal Cockney Posh couple, Roy and Elaine Upwood, who live in a Mock Tudor mansion in Chislehurst (a suburb they insist on calling 'the village'). Roy runs a 'luxury bathroom' business and Elaine ('Elyne') is a 'beauty therapist' who spends most of her earnings on cosmetic surgery. They have two children, Sabrina and Jason.
The Upwoods are aiming high. 'Jyson's nyme's darn for Arrow,' trills Elyne on the patio, sipping champagne ('shampers') out of a white wine* glass. Translation: 'Jason's name's down for Harrow.'
* White Wine = 'Wait Wayne.'

 

[Ticklishchap]

... But by far the most interesting member of the Upwood clan is downwardly mobile Sabrina ('Sabrayna'). She embarked on a promising career as a glamour model (using some of her Dad's 'business contacts'): 'Can I show you moi portfow-lio?' became her catchphrase.

However Sabrayna 'fell pregnant' twice, first by budding Sarf London gangsta rapper Sleazboy (frontman for a group called Black Ice), and secondly by a 'Yew-Kip' MEP* and former garage owner called Keith Spilling. [He makes a point of saying 'gar-age' to rhyme with 'Far-age' although he lapses into 'garridge' every so often.

Sabrina Upwood now lives with her two 'kids', Mia and Liam, in a flat above Dino's Pizza and Kebab House on Sidcup High Street. She's been shagging Dino Kokalakis (real name Dean Murphy but she doesn't know that) for the past year and a bit, 'orn and orf, like' - and is training to be a fitness coach (which she pronounces as 'couch').

 

[BlueTrain]

One way to tell the difference is in the names; for the men, the more the better. For the women, the authentic names are Philippa, Fiona, Victoria and so on. But if their names are Pamela, Mary, Doreen or the like, suspicion is justified. In America, there are slightly different clues.

 

[basbol13]

It's great to start a debate, especially with individuals from other countries. I learn so much about other peoples and their differing and varied perceptions...even among themselves.

 

[Ticklishchap]

One way to tell the difference is in the names; for the men, the more the better. For the women, the authentic names are Philippa, Fiona, Victoria and so on. But if their names are Pamela, Mary, Doreen or the like, suspicion is justified. In America, there are slightly different clues.

I think you'll find that Victoria has dropped class to 'Vicky' and so has Fiona: there are many 'Feownas' in Sarf London! Also, Nigel and Roger dropped from the early 1960s from 'upper' to 'lower' middle class and once upper class Oliver has evolved into working class Ollie.

Re. the imaginary (but all too life-like) Upwood family: Sabrina Upwood, during her glamour model career, would have styled herself Breena (pronounced 'Brayna') and I think the rapper's name would be Sleazboi with an 'i'.

Oh, and I forgot to tell the American readers that MEP = Member of the European Parliament. Every cloud (or 'claowd', as 'Elyne' would say) has a silver lining (linin') and one by-product of Brexit is that the 'Yew-Kip' MEPs will lose their salaries and expense accounts. But there's no need to worry as we can trade with 'the world' now, starting with the Commonwealth: Goodbye Germany and France, hello Gambia, Zimbabwe, Vanuatu. ...

I'll get back to the original point of this thread (namely 'sweaters') shortly. ...

 

[Lean'n'mean]

Q; what do you get if you cross a kangaroo with a sheep ?
A; A woolly jumper.

Jumper for me though I don't really care what the 'orrible itchy things are called.. As for Brexit...............no, I'd better not.