Where's all this intolerance coming from??

[Hat and Rehat]

I’ll focus this post on London, where I live, although my argument might apply to some extent in other parts of the UK and the US. I think that identity politics along with the ideology and policy goal of ‘diversity’ are fuelling intolerance.
-First, because the focus is on our differences rather than our shared values and goals as citizens.
- Secondly, because the strident assertion of group rights (as opposed to individual freedom and civic responsibility) is used to shut down discussion and impose a uniform view: in Orwellian terms ‘Diversity is Conformity’!
- Third, because hierarchies of victimhood are created with self-appointed activists/community leaders competing for victim status for ‘their’ group and therefore refusing to show empathy towards anyone else.
-Fourth, because the population is increasingly Balkanised along lines of gender, ethnicity, religion, sexuality etc. and so there is actually less rather than more contact or dialogue between people with different characteristics or beliefs.
-Fifth, those who feel excluded by what we could call the 'diversity-industrial complex' are likely to become resentful and are good cannon-fodder for populist backlash movements.

Bartender Edit: very specific political content deleted.

This thread is already sailing very close to thew wind as regards house rules. Let's avoid having to shut it down entirely, please.

I'm not sure what the Bartenders removed, or exactly where the line of acceptable lies, but I believe your analysis is spot on.
Some ugly things can come from this forced diversity and hierarchy of victimhood.
My son in law has joined the Alt Right, white nationalist, movement. It breaks my heart. It angers me as well. Researching it seeking ammunition to reason with him, I remained just as disgusted, but realize that these young white men going down that road sincerely believe they are doing so in self defence.
I don't see how it can end well.
That's my two cents, and all I plan to contribute to the discussion.

 

[belfastboy]

It seems to me that this specific discussion cannot be entertained without straying into politics (as the last post has strayed). For that reason alone I think it needs to be stopped as this is not the forum for that.

 

[Ticklishchap]

I'm going to say this despite the risk of being banned, but diversity ain't the problem. People being told to put aside their conscious biases, who either don't feel like they should have to give up bigoted views, or see them as something to actually be proud of, are the actual problem. "Diversity is Conformity"? It's the literal antithesis of conformity. Conformity is the demand that people unify with common thought, politic, and culture. I think you need to spend less time listening to talking heads engaged in political rhetoric, and spend some time looking at actual analysis of the economic benefits of diversity. Because if your belief is that you're being harmed economically by minorities, you haven't looked at both sides of the data. You might like to think that minority peoples are a drain on the resources of Jolly Ol' Blighty, but in actual fact, minorities consistently out-perform their peers in the workplace, contribute more in taxes, and in actuality, use benefits (which they've paid into just the same as everyone else) LESS per-capita. I can provide links should you wish to expand your understanding on the subject, and would be happy to share them with you offline.

I don't believe that the Lounge is a place for debating basic rights of other human beings. There was a time and place where a country in Western Europe actually had that "idea", and as I recall, it ended up costing the lives of many a Britisher, as well as the Indians, Pakistanis, Polish, Czechs, Gurkhas, and the many other diverse peoples who came to Britain's aid to prevent it being invaded by said country.

"Had it not been for the magnificent material contributed by the Polish squadrons and their unsurpassed gallantry, I hesitate to say that the outcome of the Battle (of Britain) would have been the same" - Air Chief Marshal, Sir Hugh Dowding

I could say a lot of things about ‘woke’ culture here, but I don’t go in for insulting people I don’t know because they disagree with me.

For example, you clearly assume that I do not belong to what you would call a minority group. You have obviously wrongly presumed that I am heterosexual. However unlike you - and certainly unlike the dictatorships you allude to - I do not define myself by this ‘difference’ but see myself as a citizen of a free society with the same rights and duties as all other citizens. Most of my best friends are ‘straight’ and do not regard me as different from them. It is ‘woke’ activists, the far right and ‘diverse’ forms of religious fundamentalists who emphasise difference over shared values.

That was the point of my post, if you had troubled to read carefully: tolerance is based on individual freedom and responsibility under the rule of law.

 

[Ticklishchap]

It seems to me that this specific discussion cannot be entertained without straying into politics (as the last post has strayed). For that reason alone I think it needs to be stopped as this is not the forum for that.

I agree with you and am happy to call it quits and get back to all the other more relevant threads. But I couldn’t let that lady link me with dictatorships even implicitly and so I had to reply briefly to her post!

 

[belfastboy]

I agree with you and am happy to call it quits and get back to all the other more relevant threads. But I couldn’t let that lady link me with dictatorships even implicitly and so I had to reply briefly to her post!

Yes, I fully agree with your intent. Many times I have, surprisingly, constrained myself and not replied.

 

[Ticklishchap]

Yes, I fully agree with your intent. Many times I have, surprisingly, constrained myself and not replied.

Thanks for that and I fully agree with you!

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Sometimes it is expected that the extreme and disgusting should be tolerated or else you will stand accused.

 

[belfastboy]

Sometimes it is expected that the extreme and disgusting should be tolerated or else you will stand accused.

It is like the old poster my father had in his study..."It is okay to make Merry, just don't bring her in here!". It is great to have strong political opinions....just don't bring them into the Lounge.

 

[MissMittens]

I could say a lot of things about ‘woke’ culture here, but I don’t go in for insulting people I don’t know because they disagree with me.

For example, you clearly assume that I do not belong to what you would call a minority group. You have obviously wrongly presumed that I am heterosexual. However unlike you - and certainly unlike the dictatorships you allude to - I do not define myself by this ‘difference’ but see myself as a citizen of a free society with the same rights and duties as all other citizens. Most of my best friends are ‘straight’ and do not regard me as different from them. It is ‘woke’ activists, the far right and ‘diverse’ forms of religious fundamentalists who emphasise difference over shared values.

That was the point of my post, if you had troubled to read carefully: tolerance is based on individual freedom and responsibility under the rule of law.

I made no assumptions as to your race, sex, gender, or orientation. In fact, i deliberately chose not make reference in my post. I stand by my words. This will be my last comment on the issue. Good day.

 

[Ticklishchap]

I made no assumptions as to your race, sex, gender, or orientation. In fact, i deliberately chose not make reference in my post. I stand by my words. This will be my last comment on the issue. Good day.

Very much the sort of response I would expect from a person with your (apparent) worldview. Have a nice life.

 

[Tiki Tom]

 

[scotrace]

I must apologize to the membership in general, as we have not checked this thread in awhile. Please keep in mind that current politics are off limits for discussion at The Fedora Lounge.