When your told to put down the gun... DO IT!

[Tomasso]

"There isn't another option available ... when you're facing a firearm," Kerlikowske said. "We don't face lethal weaponry with nonlethal means." (My emphasis)

You mean, your 'cherry picking'.

You seem to want to blame it on the officers,

And you seem to want to close the case based on the police account, without an internal review.:eusa_doh:

 

[cooncatbob]

The fact that he was wearing a German uniform is irrelevant.
He could have been dressed as Johnny Reb or a US Marine.
The only relevant point is he pointed the muzzle of a weapon at a law enforcement officer and failed to obey the command to drop the weapon.
The rules of gun safety are simple, but the failure to follow them can be severe.

RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED

RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY

RULE III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET

RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET

 

[Rachael]

The fact that he was wearing a German uniform is irrelevant.
He could have been dressed as Johnny Reb or a US Marine.
The only relevant point is he pointed the muzzle of a weapon at a law enforcement officer and failed to obey the command to drop the weapon.
The rules of gun safety are simple, but the failure to follow them can be severe.

RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED

RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY

RULE III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET

RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET

my 17yo son is a reenactor, and this was his precise reaction to this story.

 

[Tomasso]

The only relevant point is he pointed the muzzle of a weapon at a law enforcement officer

That's the police account.

 

[Paisley]

Is there another account?

 

[Jerekson]

Well, this thread has certainly built itself up into something...

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Is there another account?

This is what an impartial investigation will determine. No single account is valid: Independent of the source. Even if the President says it, I want corroboration, and investigation!

bk

 

[reetpleat]

I am a pretty liberal guy, but I certainly acknowledge that the police do have the right and obligation to shoot someone who is threatening the lives of officers and the public. I don't think that is much of an issue.

But I do agree that an investigation is certainly in order because it is possible for police officers to shoot too easily.

I will note that while it is most certainly not unique, the Seattle police department do have a history of questionable shootings. Most recently was the shooting of a mentally retarded man with a knife, that many claim was not a life threatening situation. to make matters worse, he was an african american in an african american neighborhood. What a political mess that turned out to be.

 

[Dixon Cannon]

This is what an impartial investigation will determine. No single account is valid: Independent of the source. Even if the President says it, I want corroboration, and investigation!
bk

Hear! Hear! BK. The individual may have been wearing a "Nazi" uniform but we're not a "Nazi" society or a "Police State" (Yet!). BK you are absolutely correct only an independent impartial investigation will reveal the actual facts. Everything else is just hearsay. And, sadly true, the police in America often do make bad judgement calls, errors and felonious decisions. Taking the "police account" at face value is dangerous and irresponible and often the first step in relinquishing precious Liberty.

I'll reserve judgement until I'm able to read an official independent report.

Tragedy none the less.

-dixon cannon

 

[reetpleat]

I find it interesting that no one thought to comment on a whole other aspect to this story that is particularly relevant to us on this forum.

He may well be "one of us" as in, a reenactor and fan of history. But it is surely going to be assumed by most people that he is a neo nazi and/or a nut, likely to be a threat to the police, as in, a bigger threat to a normal person by virtue of being a white supremacist or nut job.

I am sure it will not be seen as the same as if he were a mormon missionary going door to door.

 

[Imahomer]

And, sadly true, the police in America often do make bad judgement calls, errors and felonious decisions. Taking the "police account" at face value is dangerous and irresponible and often the first step in relinquishing precious Liberty.

Now there is an impartial and fair statement! No factual data, or basis behind it at all, but it clearly shows which way the writers views are slanted.

 

[KilroyCD]

You mean, your 'cherry picking'. ...

You see? That is entirely my point. You cherry picked what you wanted in order to make your point. I cherry picked what I wanted in order to make mine. It all goes to show that there are two sides to each story, and we exemplified it by our posts. I think neither of us can honestly say that, based on what information that has been provided by the press (and we can't always count on them to be totally unbiased and accurate), we know what did indeed transpire.

And you seem to want to close the case based on the police account, without an internal review.:eusa_doh:

Not at all. I sincerely believe that this issue is not a "case closed" issue, and ultimately an accurate account of the events that led to the young man's demise will come out. But it is pure folly to be claiming "police cover-up" (or anything similar) at this juncture. In my opinion, it smacks of paranoia.

 

[Miss Crisplock]

Info in local paper

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/394564_copshooting03.html

 

[MPicciotto]

I find it interesting that no one thought to comment on a whole other aspect to this story that is particularly relevant to us on this forum.

He may well be "one of us" as in, a reenactor and fan of history. But it is surely going to be assumed by most people that he is a neo nazi and/or a nut, likely to be a threat to the police, as in, a bigger threat to a normal person by virtue of being a white supremacist or nut job.

I am sure it will not be seen as the same as if he were a mormon missionary going door to door.

Thank you. That is why I even posted the article. In fact some people on this forum seem to have chosen to assume this individual to be a neo nazi. I wasn't posting this so we can have shouting matches across the pond about excessive force versus gun rights. I posted it because "He may well be 'one of us' " In fact has anybody with the power to do so checked that? So far lacking though are "witnesses" who actually saw the events. It appears from that latest article that their is a witness to collaborate that the police did order him to put down the weapon. But what he actually did or didn't do with the rifle is still not collaborated... and may never be.

Matt

 

[Justdog]

Shot

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090103/ap_on_re_us/nazi_uniform_shooting

Matt

Died doing what he loved though

 

[Imahomer]

Thank you. That is why I even posted the article. In fact some people on this forum seem to have chosen to assume this individual to be a neo nazi. I wasn't posting this so we can have shouting matches across the pond about excessive force versus gun rights. I posted it because "He may well be 'one of us' " In fact has anybody with the power to do so checked that? So far lacking though are "witnesses" who actually saw the events. It appears from that latest article that their is a witness to collaborate that the police did order him to put down the weapon. But what he actually did or didn't do with the rifle is still not collaborated... and may never be.

Matt

Surely you mean corroborate, not collaborate. [huh]

I am sure it will not be seen as the same as if he were a mormon missionary going door to door.

Actually it would be seen as the same if he was going door to door with that rifle!

 

[MPicciotto]

Surely you mean corroborate, not collaborate. [huh]

Yeah what he said. Oops.

Matt

 

[reetpleat]

Now there is an impartial and fair statement! No factual data, or basis behind it at all, but it clearly shows which way the writers views are slanted.

Perhaps the word often is a mistake, but I think we can all agree that the Police are as capable of making bad judgement calls or mistakes, or willingly wrong decisions, even if rarely. So, an investigation to get at the truth is in order, and if the facts warrant, the officers should be exonerated so there will never be any question about their role in the incident.

the police are given a great power, and must always live up to the highest standards. If an impartial investigation shows they lived up to those standards, all the better for public relations and the officers peace of mind. If it is shown that they did not, then better training, and discipline should be taken and full disclosure should be given. Only this way will the police and the public be on good terms.

 

[ScionPI2005]

I find it interesting that no one thought to comment on a whole other aspect to this story that is particularly relevant to us on this forum.

He may well be "one of us" as in, a reenactor and fan of history. But it is surely going to be assumed by most people that he is a neo nazi and/or a nut, likely to be a threat to the police, as in, a bigger threat to a normal person by virtue of being a white supremacist or nut job.

I am sure it will not be seen as the same as if he were a mormon missionary going door to door.

Hopefully that won't be the case, however, I admit that it is quite possible. Unless we are closer to the source though, it is unlikely that any of us will know exactly how the general public views this individual and his passing. Any stigma or speculations as to his beliefs and actions while alive will more than likely only be known to those closer to the location of the incident, and perhaps closer to the individual and his family and friends. It certainly isn't something you can get from the media, regardless of the publication. They'll portray him as they want to portray him.

 

[reetpleat]

Surely you mean corroborate, not collaborate. [huh]




Actually it would be seen as the same if he was going door to door with that rifle!

I disagree. As threatening as a gun may be, if people assume he is a neo nazi or nutjob, they will have little sympathy. If here were a family man who loved hunting and were walking across the street to his buddy's door to show him his new gun, people will call the police to a much stricter review.