When your told to put down the gun... DO IT!

[Maguire]

well the guy was drunk. And if he was drunk enough to.. as already said run around carrying a mauser in an SS uniform... he was probably too drunk to make any kind of rational decision. At the same time, there may be two sides here, as was mentioned earlier. In any case, RIP. Poor guy.

 

[retrogirl1941]

Running round in nazi uniform firering blanks isn't the most sane thing to do.

HHmmmm.........There must be alot of insane people then; its a little thing called reenacting . Down here in Florida we have had events cancelled b/c people have drank too much and then pulled the firearms out. I just hope this was a good wake up call. Anyways by all accounts, everyone I have talked to seemed to agree that he was a great person but, add alcohol and anything can happen.[huh]

Samantha

 

[cooncatbob]

Nobody said it was a SS uniform and not everybody who served in the German army was a Nazi.
Mixing guns and alcohol is always a bad combination.
People who shoot live rounds into the air are idiots, what goes up must come down and they come down hard enough to kill people.
I feel bad for the drunk SOB and feel worse for the cops that were force to take his life.

 

[Tomasso]

I think there's a good chance that they're covering their butts because they shot this kid in a panic and didn't give him time to
respond.

I think you might be on to something, Mr. Noodles.



From a more recent article with a bit more flesh on it.

Ray was at his computer in his hallway, directly above the basement stairwell, when he heard officers identify themselves and order Murphy to drop the weapon.

He then heard shots.

"It seemed to happen super, super fast," Ray said.

"I don't know if he was stunned, and not used to the police yelling at him or what, but he might have just froze," Ray said.

 

[Copper]

I was in a somewhat similar circumstance a number of years ago when I responded to a call of a man walking onto a University Campus as he was cycling the action on a handgun.

There is no personal carriage of handguns here, so when something like this happens, it is rarely a good thing.

When I found him, the gun was sticking out of his trouser pocket. I had some cover, drew down, and challenged him to stop and keep his hands up and away from the gun. He looked confused and said, "Gun? oh, this?", and started reaching for it. Everything slowed down as my finger moved to the trigger. I yelled "Stop" one more time and mercifully he did. The confusion went away, replaced by fear, and he complied.

What was in his pocket was a replica handgun.

It was the first time I had come so close to shooting someone. It is a terrible thing to contemplate. I feel terrible for the officers involved, and of course, for the young man's family.

 

[ScionPI2005]

Considering how the article that Tomasso placed a link to states that Murphy first lowered his gun and then brought it back up to the officers, he must have been under the influence of something--alcohol or otherwise. If what all the other interviewed people are saying is true (that he was such a good kid with no trouble), then that really does not line up with his actions. Considering the gun was taken away from him in 2006, it sounds like he has some sort of history with the law.

Still, its a tragic incident, and and investigation should be conducted to determine if the officers who responded acted as they should have.

well the guy was drunk. And if he was drunk enough to.. as already said run around carrying a mauser in an SS uniform... he was probably too drunk to make any kind of rational decision. At the same time, there may be two sides here, as was mentioned earlier. In any case, RIP. Poor guy.

 

[KilroyCD]

I think you might be on to something, Mr. Noodles.



From a more recent article with a bit more flesh on it.

Ray was at his computer in his hallway, directly above the basement stairwell, when he heard officers identify themselves and order Murphy to drop the weapon.

He then heard shots.

"It seemed to happen super, super fast," Ray said.

"I don't know if he was stunned, and not used to the police yelling at him or what, but he might have just froze," Ray said.

You seem to cherry-pick statements to back up your theory, but there is more to that report:
"They thought they were going into a very difficult, dangerous situation," Ray said. "He wasn't aggressive. He was a good guy, but of course there was no way for the police to know that then."

"There isn't another option available ... when you're facing a firearm," Kerlikowske said. "We don't face lethal weaponry with nonlethal means." (My emphasis)

"... Miles Murphy emerged from the basement wearing a World War II-era German military uniform and carrying the Mauser Kar rifle with affixed bayonet in both hands.
The officers identified themselves as Seattle police and ordered Murphy to drop the weapon, police said.
Murphy pointed the weapon at the officers, Kerlikowske said, then lowered it, then pointed it at them again "while taking a step forward."
The officers said they had direct eye contact with Murphy during this exchange and that Murphy did not utter a word, the police chief said."

You seem to want to blame it on the officers, but when you boil it down, he should not have been outside at night firing a gun - PERIOD. What he did was flat out stupid (and likely alcohol induced), and it resulted in a very tragic situation. You seem to be laying the blame for this situation on the police (when they only trying to protect their own lives) and not the person who brought it about in the first place.

 

[Imahomer]

Good call Kilroy. It's easy to get on the computer and then say the police are pulling a fast one, or trying to cover something up. They responded to a guy shooting a rifle. They didn't just decide to go there, they were called by people who were afraid for their well being.

Common procedure is to approach a known armed suspect with your gun drawn. When you order that suspect to put their gun down (that they've been firing) and they don't, your options have become limited. When that person aims their deadly weapon at you... Even those that yell police cover up should be able to tell that the police now have zero options.

 

[Maguire]

I read somewhere that it was an SS army uniform, not necessarily wehrmacht. In any case, its a tragedy.

 

[Babydoll]

Considering the gun was taken away from him in 2006, it sounds like he has some sort of history with the law.

This happened not far from my old neighborhood. It's been on the local news a lot since it happened. Two things of note that I don't think have been mentioned yet.

1. As in the above comment, yes, the gun was taken away from the young man in 2006, but then was given back to him at the insistence of his father. Yikes.

2. Also, the local police had received a call right around the same time that an officer had been shot a few miles away. Don't know if it being NYE, dealing with drunks, possible officer down kind of craziness had any influence on how the officers dealt with this situation.

I'm sad the young man was killed, but in this day and age you don't joke around with weapons (even fake ones) with the police. If they ask you to put it down, comply. He didn't, and that is a regrettable decision.

 

[Imahomer]

I read somewhere that it was an SS army uniform, not necessarily wehrmacht. In any case, its a tragedy.

I've seen it mentioned a few times as to the manner in which he was dressed. Bottom line.... Who cares? He was carrying a rifle!

 

[Imahomer]

I read somewhere that it was an SS army uniform, not necessarily wehrmacht. In any case, its a tragedy.

I've seen it mentioned a few times as to the manner in which he was dressed. Bottom line.... Who cares? The officers were dispatched on a call of shots fired and he was carrying a rifle!

 

[Imahomer]

I'm going to refrain from any further comments on this topic. It's too bad it happened, but no one here has any first hand knowledge as to what happened. We might as well pick any topic from the newspaper and pick that apart.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

That's exactly the point. It's all heasay right now. I would venture that the vast majority of police shootings are justified. But there are stand-out cases that make me want to wait for an investigation before jumping to concusions.

Hopefully in that jurisdiction the police who were involved are not allowed to confer to get their stories straight/cover their asses … They are allowed to do so in London :eusa_doh:

bk

 

[LordBest]

Very sad, I feel for the poor chap and his family.

Without passing judgement on the police (as we do not know the full details), I have to say if i was wandering around my own home, inebriated, and two people in police uniform burst in and ordered me to drop the historical weapon I was clutching, I would be wondering if it was some kind of joke and may well not have dropped the thing as fast as they would have liked. Until we know the full circumstances we should refrain from judging both parties, not just the police.

 

[Rufus]

Most unfortunate and sad, but so avoidable. Guns are not toys.

I hate to be a pedant... But in the Thread title...it should read "You're" (You are) not your...
A very common grammatical error that is also easily avoidable!

Ruf

 

[MPicciotto]

I hate to be a pedant... But in the Thread title...it should read "You're" (You are) not your...
A very common grammatical error that is also easily avoidable!

Ruf

Rufus as instigator of this whole mess of a thread I want to thank you for bringing a touch of class back to it. Thanks for the correction. I started this thread because the photograph and back story of the article indicated to me not just another SS wannabe or Neo-Nazi but the main character seemed not to much different then many of us. Studying for a degree in Germanic Literature suggest a much deeper interest in history then somebody who just likes to put on a uniform and play war.

Matt

 

[Spitfire]

I am not entering in any discussion on guns in private homes and hands.
Just thinking how easy it is here in many european countries, where you are NOT entitled to own/carry guns.

If you meet the police with a gun in hand, they are entitled to shoot you, because in 99,9% of the cases, the gun is illegal. And you are up to no good.

There has been some tragic accidents where the police shot at somebody carrying a replicagun...but why carry it anyway?

 

[Mr. K.L.Bowers]

I am not entering in any discussion on guns in private homes and hands.
Just thinking how easy it is here in many european countries, where you are NOT entitled to own/carry guns.

I am afraid you have quite likely started a heated debate by just making such a statement. I could quote all the rhetoric on the other side of the subject, but I will just say, I am glad I live where I do, and I can actually own my historic weapons

 

[Spitfire]

Mr. Bowers. Why don't you read the last part. That was the important stuff.
If I have started a heated debate, just by saying that some countries have other laws, it's paranoid.

But I am glad that you are glad
End of story.