When does it become a costume?

[gfirob]

So the other day I went out wearing an Aero Bootlegger and a leather Russian Lenin cap (a pretty snappy combination, I thought) and my wife said "Oh my god, you look like you are dressed up for Halloween!"

Of course, I wore that hat anyway, but it got me to thinking. At what point does style become a costume (or perhaps more to the point, at what point does it become ridiculous)?

To some, dressing up like Indiana Jones is ridiculous, or even wearing a cowboy hat or motorcycle jacket is ridiculous. For others, it is just a matter of style.

It is also a matter of context and authenticity. I once made the mistake of wearing a vintage heavy leather trenchcoat to an affair at the Israeli Embassy in Washington DC, wear I was taken aside and told that I looked like I was with the Gestapo. The coat was entirely authentic, and I am not (and have never been) a member of the Gestapo, but still, it was not a good context in which to wear the coat...

I have to confess that seeing European teenagers in American rap clothes looks ridiculous, but I think it looks ridiculous in the States too.

Very young, thin, attractive people can get away with wearing things that middle aged people cannot.

So how do you draw the line? Why is an American civil war coat and hat obviously a costume but an Irvin jacket is not? Or is it?

What do you think?

 

[tonypaj]

It's all about you and how comfortable you are with yourself. Some people can pull it off, some can't. If it looks like you are trying too hard, then it won't work. There are no universal limits, some people have got the touch, some don't. Even here on this board. Same stuff worn by different people changes from costume to cool...

 

[jimmer_5]

I agree with Tonypaj - there are certain things that some people can pull off and some people can't. I had a frined in college that for some reason could pull of just about anything and look cool - various hats, leisure suits, odd colors. He's always been a bit of an odd guy, but man! He could make anything look effortlessly cool.

He rode a scooter and looked cool doing it - put me on there and I look like a circus bear on a tricycle.

A lot of it is being able to do it without being self conscious, but I think some people just have a knack for it.

I wear a lot of western wear, but I am not a cowboy - it can be hard to find nice looking stuff, but when done right it can look really good. I am an outdoorsman with rural roots, but not a cowboy, and I don't pretend to be one. As a result, I tend to have to keep it toned down a bit - if I was to put on boots, indigo jeans, a big buckle, a hokey shirt, and a hat all at once, I might look like I was overdoing it, but mixing and matching some of these elements provides the look I like without going over the top. I have several fancy vintage western shirts that I hardly ever get to wear because they look too over the top. It's a real shame.

Of course, as I have gotten older, it has become easier to just wear what I like and not give a damn what others think, and I really don't overthink the way I dress. However, I do try to make sure I don;t look like I'm in a costume when I go out.

 

[Cap'n Spaulding]

IMHO, modern casual dress 'standards' (especially for guys) are so wide open that you can easily get away with mixing in vintage elements, such as a hat, shirt, shoes or a leather jacket.

The threshold might be how many of these items you wear together. I suppose, once you have a certain number of vintage items on at the same time, it might trigger 'costume' thoughts in some people.

 

[L'Onset]

Hello gentelmen, and ladys of course, this is my firs post, though I've been watching trough the window for a while

I've often faced the same thoughts about being "costumey" or being considered "ridiculous". It is no doubt a question of self confidence, but it is (sadly) also a question of what could be socially accepted as "normal" and what not. In this society in which we live I'm afraid that "normality" is pretty much set by what is shown on TV and Media, so teenagers on rappers clothing are seen as "normal" while a double breasted suit with a fedora seems "costumey". Or at least this is my impression around me where I live and work.

I'd like to gather enough self confidence to dress up myself to work, but even what would be considered as "sport" or "casual" such a tweed coat, slacks and tie or bowtie, would make my collegues at work stare at me and comment about my "disguise".

Gentlemen, we must face a crusade against those butt-showing jeans, backward-looking-baseball-caps-worn-indoors and sleeveless t-shirts in the office lol.

Now, I'd like to apollogise for such a belligerant first post . I would not like to seem too rude, but the fact is that the issue on this thread portraits very well what I've been pondering over for a long time

 

[avedwards]

Personally I agree with that it depends how you wear it will make it look costumey or not.

However, it depends on the event. As you saw, a leather trenchcoat at the Israeli Embassy was not liked by others. Likewise, morning dress looks wrong in the office but perfectly appropriate if you were meeting the Her Majesty (at least in the UK).

As for only having some vintage items, it depends what look you're going for. With Western outfits only a few items may be able to be worn, but this may be different for city clothing. For example, when going to an embassy, if you're careful I think a whole 40s outfit would work. For example, a plain blue or grey DB suit, a simply patterned tie, a white point collar shirt and black Oxfords will look different but not too out of place. Or if the DB suit is too much a 40s SB suit will work too. The fact is that in an environment where suits are worn a more classically styled suit can work IMO.

Just my opinion of course. I did wear a three piece suit and fedora to go out yesterday and nobody seemed to mind.

 

[Paisley]

The costume vs. natural thread:

http://thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=39885

While some people pull off unusual looks better than others do, if the look is really out of the ordinary, many will see it as a costume.

 

[tonyb]

It's all about you and how comfortable you are with yourself. Some people can pull it off, some can't. If it looks like you are trying too hard, then it won't work. There are no universal limits, some people have got the touch, some don't. Even here on this board. Same stuff worn by different people changes from costume to cool...

Yup ... that's the short and sweet of it.

Of course, how comfortable a person is with himself, within his own skin, so to speak, will strongly influence his choices in what he puts atop that skin.

This is not to say there isn't a time and place for "costumey" attire. Pointy-toed boots and low-waisted, tight-fitting jeans and a Western hat would be the ticket into the Ellensburg Rodeo and Kittitas County Fair, just as a '40s-vintage tux might well garner positive attention at a fancy holiday gala.

But if your belly spills over that low waistband on those tight-fitting Wranglers, well, better choose something else.

There's something unattractive in naked self-promotion, and there's something quite akin to it in the ways some people dress. If it screams "look at me!," it has crossed the line. But as tonypaj said, there are no universal limits. Some can pull it off, some can't.

 

[Erik]

"When does it become a costume?"

When no matter how comfortable the wearer appears the majority of people, to include many folks capable of appreciating what is being worn, are apt to view it as such.

 

[tonyb]

"When does it become a costume?"

When no matter how comfortable the wearer appears the majority of people, to include many folks capable of appreciating what is being worn, are apt to view it as such.

Is it sort of like "proper" grammar, then, in that popular usage becomes the accepted standard, no matter what the old convention might have held to the contrary?

Might it also be said that how the majority of people view a particular person in a particular outfit might be influenced by how comfortable that person appears?

Let's not forget context. The views of the majority of people in Setting A may differ from those of the majority of people in Setting B.

 

[HungaryTom]

I think you answered the question about wearing leather jackets: it comes to the context and your personal lifestyle. Leather jackets were intended to protect motor sportsmen from the elements, so if you have an Irvin or a Bootlegger or this full length leather coat they are PERFECT for bikers but certainly odd in any embassy (not only the Israeli) for instance.

Leather jackets are the attire for outdoors pursuits and sportsy situations.

Rap clothings look ridiculous - yes, but are natural on the members of the subculture living in ridiculous ghettos, living the ridiculous lives of gangsters.

Very young, thin, attractive people can get away with wearing anything - their beauty distracts, this is why they are used as models.

An American civil war coat and hat are obviously a costume but perfect on reenactors.

Context and authenticity. If your lifestyle and the situation match the clothes it is Ok otherwise they are costumes.

 

[Dixon Cannon]

It is a curious conundrum, is it not? It really comes down to the eye of the beholder and whether we give that "beholder" any credence. I look around me sometimes and see the way that average, normal people dress and I wonder, "what are they thinking!?" So if I happen to be wearing something (hat, coat, boots) that I like and feel comfortable with, not only can I expect that someone out there might be also wondering about my intentions. On the other hand, based I what I've observed at times on others, my attire would be no more or no less odd.

I've reached the age where I really don't care what others think about my attire, so I dress the way I want to and go about my business with aplomb.

-dixon cannon

 

[avedwards]

I've reached the age where I really don't care what others think about my attire, so I dress the way I want to and go about my business with aplomb.

-dixon cannon

The OP won't be able to do that though, since certain standards are required in government work, and I'm guessing that's what he was doing when visiting the Embassy. Perhaps a better vintage coat would be a cotton trenchcoat on that occaision as it won't risk being misinterpreted and if the weather is foul people won't find it strange either. The leather coat is fine for other occaisions like motorcycling or generally walking around town outside of Embassy visiting IMO.

Some vintage styles are more adaptable than others as suggested in my earlier post. As well as suits; civilian overcoats, shoes, ties and dress shirts can all be worn in a modern context without looking too strange.

 

[tonyb]

I wouldn't expect (or want) a person to fret over what I think of his way of presenting himself, including his attire.

But man oh man, in my regular comings and goings it's apparent that many people -- the majority, perhaps -- either pay very little attention to their appearance or have awful taste. I just hope, for their sake and the world's, that it's an indication of some heightened state of enlightenment, that they are somehow above such superficial concerns. (Fat chance, eh?)

I'm talkin' 'bout the real world here, not TV and the movies. You know, the people you see at the supermarket. They may well be finer human beings than I'll ever be, but sheesh!, you gotta wonder if they give any thought to the view they expose the rest of us to.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

I live in a small town and word about an individual gets around fast. I had bought a late 60's or 70's brown long coat with fur lapels. I really liked it, I thought it was a neat vintage winter coat (versus my Carhartt i usually wear) and I wore it one cold day to work. By the next day it had already gotten back to my father about how God-awful people found this coat. He wouldn't tell me what exactly the people said, because it apparantly offended him very much. That coat resides strictly in my closet now.

I think that's another way to look at things, it may not be costumey, but is not considered normal by the masses. I mean, my attire rarely is, but this was an extreme. So, a line was drawn.

 

[HungaryTom]

Tonyb,

I agree with you that the real world is full with people who pay very little or no attention to their appearance or have awful taste. This is why there are style guides. In todays world the style fora on the web make it easy: the Style Forum or Ask Andy and other fora and our own FL are good places for getting free lessons and learn through other's examples while getting the inspiration for consuming those clothes (the "hidden" agenda of such forums).
However even in many "classic" men's stores there are clothes without class. It takes a lot of money, energy and years to build up a personal wardrobe that looks really elegant.

 

[Torpedo]

(...)
I'd like to gather enough self confidence to dress up myself to work, but even what would be considered as "sport" or "casual" such a tweed coat, slacks and tie or bowtie, would make my collegues at work stare at me and comment about my "disguise".

Gentlemen, we must face a crusade against those butt-showing jeans, backward-looking-baseball-caps-worn-indoors and sleeveless t-shirts in the office lol.

Well, I think we should take active part in that crusade and lead with the example. Unless there is a dress code that precludes such; or doing so would be incongruous or inapropriate for our line of work, it can be done, providing you are confident with it and regular and coherent in your purpose.

It may help if you do it by increments; this may serve to "test the waters", gain confidence, and ease the change. I mean, appearing with a suit and bowtie, when your usual attire up to that moment consisted of trainers, jeans and t-shirts will elicit more reaction that graduating it with, say, starting with shoes, then sport coats, next ties, etc.

Where I work, very casual is the common standard of dress; although shorts and sandals are not allowed, pretty much anything over this is acceptable. Trainers, T-shirts, cargo pants and jeans are widespread; even Dockers-style trousers and shirts are comparatively little favoured, and sports (suit-type) jackets are rare. Ties are pretty nonexistent, as are suits. Only a few executives in the higher scale use those, and not all of them on a regular basis.

Well, I wear suit or sport jackets with odd trousers, either pleated or Dockers-style, plus tie or bowtie and, most days, a pocket square; occassionally, a suit. Also, a fedora or a 8-panel or flat cap, although these I wear to and from the work place, but not, usually, during the job hours. I introduced all of these by the "gradual" schedule outlined above. Hats and ties/bowties are almost always vintage, as are some of the jackets, other elements are retro or just mainstream.

Yes, it drew some comments, and some puns (flattering remarks too), but eventually people got used. It became my "normal" image, the one my co-workers are used to: a reconigzable style associated with me.

It draws attention, but it can be done.

One thing I genuinely believe is helpful is that you should NEVER frown upon what others co-worker wear, as opposed to what you wear (unless in response to puns, if adequate, and even then, carefully, because other people's comments are rarely ill-intentioned); you should not behave as if you look down on the others because they do not dress like you think they should. There's no need to antagonize anyone because of an attitude that would be perceived as haughty. This would not serve your purpose. If someone prompts you to discuss why you choose to dress that way, it is the moment to talk about your reasons, but do it in a positive, constructive way, not demeaning to other persons' choices.

Set an example.

 

[Diamondback1]

Particular cultural settings and environments have prescribed sartorial norms....deviate from the narrow standard and one's appearance becomes inappropriate. When and where the rules are more open, individual conviction can become the crucial determinate of what is style and what is costume. Some folks are better than others at defining their own convictions....marching to their own drum beat if you will. Generally, I think the older you are and the more life experiences you've had, the less you tend to be influenced by others opinions and judgments and the more confidence you develop. ( Incidentally, I believe empathy and compassion evolve from experience and have much to do with self-confidence and conviction.) The more self-confidence and conviction you develop the more freedom you have to define your personal style....and the less others opinions and judgments restrict your choices. And.....the less frequently one tends to pass mental judgement on what others wear.

- regards

 

[jimmer_5]

It's also worth noting hte difference between dressing "unusually" and dressing "inappropriately".

Average people may find what you wear unusual, but not inappropriate.
Again, it comes down to how comfortable you are with your style. I will admit that I don't like having to constantly explain myself to people, so I have learned when to tone it down a bit. Although, one of the beautiful things about getting older is that I rarely ever get crap about how I dress anymore.

For example, I grew up in NY state in a small, semi-rural town. So for years people would tell me that I wasn't allowed to wear western boots because I was from NY. It was incredibly stupid, but I got these sort of comments all the time. Never mind that I spent most of my time outdoors in the woods and a lot of time around my grandparents farm.

I think a lot of us just want to be left alone, and so we conform a little bit just so people will shut up.

 

[Carlisle Blues]

I think a lot of us just want to be left alone, and so we conform a little bit just so people will shut up.

I don't..