When does it become a costume?

[Edward]

My point is no matter how they are dressed they think they look just fine.. While that is not my style of dress, they look like they have done their best and are dressing for themselves.

Good point. I do try always to bear in mind that while I may not care for a certain style, it does not mean that I can blithely assume it hasn't been put together with a great deal of care and attention. The hip hop look is a good example of this.... For what it may be worth, a high proportion of the compliments I get on the street are from hip hop kids. [huh]

 

[avedwards]

Still, it is a tad sad to see someone too obviously starring in their own mental movie. As many of the posters have opined, it's a fine line between a 'hip' (does anyone use that word now?) look and something that just seems to be trying too hard. Unless you own your own business, and are in the fashion and/or entertainment world, the 'full monty' fedora, double breasted suit and spats is probably difficult to pull off, day-in, day-out.

I have to respectfully disagree about fedora, DB suit and spats being too much to wear for work every day. Providing you are in an office environment where everyone wears suits of course. A fedora is fine as long as it's taken off inside, as people will not mind it then I'd hope. Spats are an accessory which isn't blindingly obvious, hence I can't see much trouble there. And DB suits are very slowly coming into some high street stores (at least in the UK) so wearing one in place of a DB suit is acceptable IMO. I understand your point, I'm just saying that if subtly done many vintage things can be worn in a modern environment without looking too out of place.

 

[avedwards]

Good point. I do try always to bear in mind that while I may not care for a certain style, it does not mean that I can blithely assume it hasn't been put together with a great deal of care and attention. The hip hop look is a good example of this.... For what it may be worth, a high proportion of the compliments I get on the street are from hip hop kids. [huh]

I also find that modern youths who are non-conformative (like so called "goths" who wear black make up and black clothes) are very acceptant of my style, since they're both different styles but still non-conformative and they therefore sort of respect me for being a "fellow" non-conformist. I presume that's the reason for it.

 

[Carlisle Blues]

Good point. I do try always to bear in mind that while I may not care for a certain style, it does not mean that I can blithely assume it hasn't been put together with a great deal of care and attention. The hip hop look is a good example of this.... For what it may be worth, a high proportion of the compliments I get on the street are from hip hop kids. [huh]

Thank you very much Edward!!

Growing up in a multicultural setting, I was exposed to many different stylistic perspectives. Not only was it a fashion "laboratory", I use some of those styles when I perform others I use when I am in a more professional setting.

In any case I am always provided with a challenge to my current style. That is the beauty of fashion.

 

[tonyb]

Lots of good observations on the same topic in this thread ...

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=39885&page=4

... which include, besides Paisley's cogent thoughts, this little gem from an infrequent poster who goes by the name Rathko ...

"Clothing you wear when you're playing yourself. Costume you wear when you're playing somebody else."

People have a sense of when they aren't quite being themselves, but rather some version of who they may wish to be. The question, then, is at what point (if ever) and to what degree people become the roles they play.

There's no "right" answer, of course. But it's kinda fun to chew it over.

 

[Italian-wiseguy]

I have noticed DB suits sometimes mentioned as potentially "costumey";

as for I see here, in contexts where suits are worn a DB is perfectly accettable and, though not that common, would appear completely natural; it doesn't look particularly vintage just for the fact of being DB, they're still made, sold and worn.

Yesterday I met my lawyers and there was a full variety of suits (DB, SB, n arrow '60slike pants, wide or narrow lapels etc.) and none of them looked costumey.

Ciao!

 

[gfirob]

Nice link to Bonnie and Clyde

I am also reminded of how Amelia Earhart looks in her cloths. I recently bought a book called "Amelia Earhart; Image and Icon" which is a book of photographs of Earhart throughout her life.

This is someone who had a wonderful sense of style, often androgynous, wearing men's clothes, ties and leather garments (as well as very feminine attire) and almost always looking comfortable and authentic.

The photo on the cover is a well known one in which she is wearing some kind of A-1 style jacket with huge pockets (or maybe they look huge because she is so small).

In almost every photograph, she looks fully comfortable in herself, at home in what she is wearing and what she is doing (including one in which she is wearing a deep-sea diving suit).

I think this sense of authenticity, of being genuine in what you wear is what makes style look so natural and graceful. And I think a lot of this comes from the kind of person you are and how you perceive yourself at a pretty deep level.

And of course, it doesn't always work. But Amelia was clearly wearing a kind of costume for a lot of these photographs, a costume of her own design and desire—and so she looks at home in herself.

It will be interesting to see if Hillary Swank has the same appeal in the new movie (not terribly well reviewed, I'm afraid). I see that a poster on the forum here was tapped as a costume consultant for that film, and that he provided one of the leather coats Swank wears.

 

[chrisruff]

Great thread, I frequently wear vintage and vintage inspired clothing on a daily basis. Folks seem very accepting of it perhaps because I am comfortable and started this job wearing such attire. Great comments so far and I'll agree that if one looks unsure or otherwise uncomfortable it gets more comments.

 

[Richard Warren]

Henry Ford said, "Believe you can, believe you can't, either way you're right."

Who knows better than you whether your clothes are a costume or just your clothes? If you know its a costume, don't wear it (unless you are attending costume event). If you choose to wear a costume when one is not called for, how could you expect to encounter anything other than a response ranging from mild amusement to outright hostility?

 

[filfoster]

Lots of good observations on the same topic in this thread ...

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=39885&page=4


"Quote from "Rathko":
Clothing you wear when you're playing yourself. Costume you wear when you're playing somebody else."

.

One of the best aphorisms I've encountered.

 

[tonyb]

Who knows better than you whether your clothes are a costume or just your clothes? If you know its a costume, don't wear it (unless you are attending costume event). If you choose to wear a costume when one is not called for, how could you expect to encounter anything other than a response ranging from mild amusement to outright hostility?

I imagine we've all had those moments when we've encountered a person and thought (if didn't come right out and say), "Does the guy in the (whatever odd attire) really expect to be taken seriously?" Or, perhaps, "How could a person not expect such a getup to elicit chuckles?"

I happen to be peripherally acquainted with a fellow who routinely wears a kilt. To the best of my knowledge, the man-skirt carries no particular ethnic/religious/familial significance to him. (As contrasted with, say, a turban on a Sikh.) He's a native-born American in early middle age who lives in a large West Coast city. While I'm no mind reader, I can't imagine how a person could think that the kilt doesn't comes across as "costumey" in many settings (most, probably) in which this guy will find himself.

It doesn't require my approval, of course. And I suppose the people this fellow sees regularly get to where they don't pay the kilt no never mind. But my fears for this man, which I hope (but doubt) are unfounded, is that to most other people the look comes across as contrived. There must be times when the kilt doesn't advance the guy's cause. As with any decidedly unusual attire, an observer is prone to wondering if the wearer wishes people to pay attention to the talents or efforts (or charm or whatever) he has to offer, or if he'd rather we remember his clothes.

Maybe all that reflects less flatteringly on the observer than the observed.

 

[Carlisle Blues]

I can't imagine how a person could think that the kilt doesn't comes across as "costumey" in many settings (most, probably) in which this guy will find himself.

As with any decidedly unusual attire, an observer is prone to wondering if the wearer wishes people to pay attention to the talents or efforts (or charm or whatever) he has to offer, or if he'd rather we remember his clothes.

Heads will turn no doubt, but, will the person be taken seriously?? It all depends who the audience is.

The person who immediately comes to mind is the best selling author, Tom Wolfe. I appreciate his style and efforts. However, I believe he would have a hard time delivering his point in certain socio-economic settings, if done in person.

 

[tonyb]

Heads will turn no doubt, but, will the person be taken seriously?? It all depends who the audience is.

The person who immediately comes to mind is the best selling author, Tom Wolfe. I appreciate his style and efforts. However, I believe he would have a hard time delivering his point in certain socio-economic settings, if done in person.

Yes, a kilt-wearer wouldn't be thought odd in Scotland. (Or would he? Beats me. I've never been there, but I've seen pictures.)

Tom Wolfe's literary bona fides are certainly in order. He could get away with wearing a clown costume.

I dig Wolfe's way of dressing, by the way, not that I'd think of emulating it. But I'd bet you a doughnut that any number of "experts" would find fault with how he turns himself out. And as far as they're concerned, they're dead right about it, and could go on at length as to why they're so certain.

And while they're doing that, we can go to the bar and watch the Phillies spank the Yankees.

 

[nulty]

when you say it does....

 

[Carlisle Blues]

I dig Wolfe's way of dressing, by the way, not that I'd think of emulating it. But I'd bet you a doughnut that any number of "experts" would find fault with how he turns himself out. And as far as they're concerned, they're dead right about it, and could go on at length as to why they're so certain.

I am with you, I totally dig the way he dresses. He has developed "his" style and that is to be appreciated.

My point speaks to your offer to go to a bar. A bar in The Bronx I am not sure he would feel the same level of acceptance and respect that he would in a bar in most of Manhattan. BTW I am from The Bronx.

 

[Edward]

Yes, a kilt-wearer wouldn't be thought odd in Scotland. (Or would he? Beats me. I've never been there, but I've seen pictures)

They're not at all common, outside of events such as weddings which call for formal or semi-formal daywear or evening wear. That said, there are those who wear them as regular clothing - an academic of my acquaintance wears a kilt four or five days a week, and I don't think is considered any more eeccentric than I might be down here with the corespondents.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

Yes, a kilt-wearer wouldn't be thought odd in Scotland. (Or would he? Beats me. I've never been there, but I've seen pictures.)
.

Had a guy come into the store the other day in a Kilt. He had a scottish accent and was quite interesting to talk to.

 

[Richard Warren]

I think that there is a good chance Mr. Wolfe has adopted the pictured style as a costume, understanding that an author is frequently a species of performing artist. Alternatively, he early on achieved such success that he feels that he can wear whatever he wants without undermining any important goals. Alternatively, he is making a socio economic statement about the ugliness of contemporary existence.

Unless one of these or a similar rationale applies, most of us would still be better served by sticking generally to something more pedestrian.

 

[Carlisle Blues]

I think that there is a good chance Mr. Wolfe has adopted the pictured style as a costume,

I tend to think of it more as his trademark or even a uniform ...like a policeman would wear a uniform or a fireman would wear a uniform; rather than an a performing artist like an actor would wear clothing to fit the role for a production.

"It's hard to imagine Wolfe blending in with the crowd, but that's never been his strategy. Wolfe began wearing the white suit in 1962 and continued because it provided a helpful barrier between himself and his subjects. "It made me a man from Mars," Wolfe says, "the man who didn't know anything and was eager to know. Incidentally, during trips to colleges I didn't wear the suit. I'd wear navy blazers, white flannels, shoes like this." Wolfe points at his two-tone shoes as if they magically appeared on his feet. "They had no idea who I was ... they'd tend to look at me and think, 'Well, he's too old to be Drug Enforcement Administration.' So they figured I was harmless. People just can't stay wary so long."

 

[Erik]

"Clothing you wear when you're playing yourself. Costume you wear when you're playing somebody else."

Followed by:

"One of the best aphorisms I've encountered."

Which I must heartily second. Or is that technically third?