What's wrong with Ralph Lauren these days?

[luvthatlulu]

I have been wondering for some time now...am I the only person who can't decide if Ralph Lauren has lost his mind or has he merely just decided it doesn't matter anymore?

I had an interesting experience the other day in the Polo Department of a local store that I must relate to you; however, first let me provide some brief background: I have been buying Ralph's products since 1969 when he was first getting started with his own line of neckties. And I can say (not proudly) that I did even at times when it wasn't exactly economically sound to do so (during four years of college, a stint in the military, my first "real job" after being discharged from the service, etc). I have always liked nice, classicly-styled clothes; and, at least in those times, his clothing line represented exactly what I wanted. So I made sacrifices. Lots of sacrifices. In short, I may not be the best customer Ralph's ever had, but I suspect I'm cold-nosing whoever is running in second or third place.

So the other day I happen to find myself in the Polo Department of a local department store at the exact same time that the Polo rep is visiting. The salespeople all know me too well I'm afraid and introduce me to her as "a very good customer". Immediately, she asks me why I like Ralph Lauren's products so well and asks for my input. Big mistake.

"Why did Ralph abandon the classic, British tailor-inspired look for his suits, sportjackets, and trousers that his reputation was first built on for this current, ludicrously-trim Italian style?" Silence. "Why the half-hearted attempt at a vintage back-belted jacket, for example, combined with obviously era-incorrect peg-legged trousers?" "Where, too, are the unique and delightfully intricate fabrics that were so prevalent in his line in the late 80's and early 90's?" More silence, well, maybe a slight shrug. This went on for several minutes, me relating to her how Ralph's name and reputation were consistently being maligned in the Fedora Lounge as well. That seemed to get her attention as she asked me to give her the URL for the site and promised to bring it to her superior's attention.

It was then that the most incredible thing happened. After going into great detail how certain markets (this one included) could not sustain sales of his "better lines" of goods, she giddily offers to show me his latest denim jean offerings. The same denim jean line that includes a $325 pair of "vintage" jeans that offers one rear pocket intentionally torn off and a smattering of self-inflicted "rips and repairs" that looked like a three year old had tried to mend!

That, fellow Loungers and friends, is what brought me to ask the original question above. I would be curious to know your thoughts, whether you feel it matters or not, and what you feel we might be able to do together about it. I still feel Ralph is our last great hope to revive the style we love. But one-on-one confrontations with out-of-touch sales reps isn't working anymore.[huh]

 

[Feraud]

This went on for several minutes, me relating to her how Ralph's name and reputation were consistently being maligned in the Fedora Lounge chat venue as well. That seemed to get her attention as she asked me to give her the URL for the site and promised to bring it to her superior's attention.

We had better start producing some constructive criticism if we are being watched.

 

[Lady Day]

I would consider her asking for the URL of this place a big step into getting bac in touch with the 'very good customer' crowd. Especially with the new Classic Gentlemen trend that is comming up.

I hope someone who has some clout will look at the site, and not be farmed to some intern who will jot down notes no real person will ever see....



LD

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Here's what I think.


One reason why Ralph Lauren has thrived (and the more "purely golden era" New Republic Clothiers went broke) is that he has always adapted classic style to the moment. In the 1970s, as you're aware, his ties -- though never of polyester -- were thick and fat; his jackets -- though always of natural fabrics -- had wide lapels; his trousers -- though pleated -- had a shallow fly, fairly narrow thighs and flared ever so slightly below the knee.


The reason why RL's late '80s-'early '90s clothes were so purely golden era is that people wanted it so at that moment. However, fashion has moved on since then ... and RL moved with it.


Ralph Lauren's formula is basically this: keep a classic core sense to the clothes, but adapt them to the fashions of the moment. At this moment, his pendulum is swinging more toward the latter, but he'll not go all the way.

.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

I would consider her asking for the URL of this place a big step into getting bac in touch with the 'very good customer' crowd.

Considering the average incomes and spending habits of most folks around here (which MK did a survey of not so long ago), we are not, as a whole, RL's "very good customer crowd." At best, the majority of us buy his higher-end stuff via thrift stores, eBay, consignment stores and/or outlets. Hardly RL's idea of dream clients, no?

.

 

[luvthatlulu]

Marc...

Here's what I think.


One reason why Ralph Lauren has thrived (and the more "purely golden era" New Republic Clothiers went broke) is that he has always adapted classic style to the moment. In the 1970s, as you're aware, his ties -- though never of polyester -- were thick and fat; his jackets -- though always of natural fabrics -- had wide lapels; his trousers -- though pleated -- had a shallow fly, fairly narrow thighs and flared ever so slightly below the knee.


The reason why RL's late '80s-'early '90s clothes were so purely golden era is that people wanted it so at that moment. However, fashion has moved on since then ... and RL moved with it.


Ralph Lauren's formula is basically this: keep a classic core sense to the clothes, but adapt them to the fashions of the moment. At this moment, his pendulum is swinging more toward the latter, but he'll not go all the way.

.

Good points all. I only hope Ralph isn't lost forever. I ultimately threw him over for Giorgio Armani--just to get wider-legged trousers for my suits and a six-button DB suit style that, at least, looks vintage. Now, even GA can't seem to produce anything but 3-button black suits with skinny legs!!:eusa_doh:

 

[Marc Chevalier]

I agree with you. In fact, that's why I buy Ralph Lauren stuff (mostly trousers) in thrift stores. Here in L.A., at least, a lot of men seem to be giving away RL clothes from the early and mid '90s ... and that's exactly what I like.

.

 

[luvthatlulu]

If you are a 40L / 34W, you may be in luck, Marc!

I agree with you. In fact, that's why I buy Ralph Lauren stuff (mostly trousers) in thrift stores. Here in L.A., at least, a lot of men seem to be giving away RL clothes from the early '90s ... and that's exactly what I like.

.

I'm planning on listing some NWT, never worn or altered, Ralph Lauren Polo suits, jackets, and pants soon on eBay in those sizes. All items from that time-frame you mentioned and with a distinctive 30's look--DB, non-vented, pleated, etc.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

I'm interested! I'm a 39-40R with a 33" waist. Will watch eBay with anticipation.

.

 

[Paisley]

Now, even GA can't seem to produce anything but 3-button black suits with skinny legs!!:eusa_doh:

Welcome to the world of women's wear.

 

[luvthatlulu]

Will PM you when I list them.

Will be offering:

Navy Blue worsted 4-1 DB, non-vented. Pleated trouser without belt loops. Model "Windsor DB".

Medium Charcoal Grey Chalkstripe flannel 6-1 DB, side-vented. Pleated trouser with belt loops. Model "Polo DB".

Cream linen 4-1 DB, non-vented. Bogie would have been very proud of this one!

Assorted trousers, all pleated. One has side tabs.

 

[scotrace]

None of that PMing stuff...

Post a note in classifieds so we can all see.

 

[PADDY]

Go one better...

Be a gent and do an initial listing of all the details, good photos and prices FIRSTLY in TFL Classifieds so that the members can have first bite at the apple before it goes anywhere near Mr Edward and the rest of the world gets a look....please

REMEMBER, there are 5000 eager vintage beavers here, all interested in such things!!! :eusa_clap

 

[cookie]

5000 FLers???/

Are there that many of us now? We are a force of nature.

 

[Lady Day]

Considering the average incomes and spending habits of most folks around here (which MK did a survey of not so long ago), we are not, as a whole, RL's "very good customer crowd." At best, the majority of us buy his higher-end stuff via thrift stores, eBay, consignment stores and/or outlets. Hardly RL's idea of dream clients, no?

.

To buy the stuff is to sell the brand. To sell the brand is to advertise. Knowing there is a market for the classic stuff that is not being tapped would be of any interest to any manufacturer.

This crowd would pay department store prices for something they truly wanted. I would if I could find it (and couldnt make it ).

LD

 

[luvthatlulu]

To all who have expressed interest...

Thank you all (that's "ya'll" for the locals) for your interest. Please bear with me. I am still learning all the avenues of this site. I will be happy to give the FL first crack at the goods. It will just be a while before I can do so due to my own computer access limitations right now. Your patience will be rewarded.

Now, back on the subject really at hand. I've had some time to think about it and I partially agree with Marc Chevalier and totally agree with Lady Day. Both make excellent points, Marc's being that Ralph has succeeded by always combining some of the tenets of classic/vintage style with market-current goods. OK, I'll buy that...right up to the point that I see a $2500 PRL suit with the skinny legs! Maybe I'm jaded by the local market (East Tennessee isn't going to be identified as a fashion capital anytime in the near future); but what twenty-something who can actually fit his trim, athletic body into one of these suits is going to pay $1500-2500 for one? And how many of those is he realistically going to buy in a season? And wouldn't the...ahem...more mature gent who can actually afford them simply visit a bespoke tailor for the same pricing--and a better fit? Maybe my marketing education is a little out of date; but if you are concerned about selling more of something, wouldn't you naturally want to make it more appealing to those who can afford to buy more of it? Lady Day says basically what I've felt all along--given the right products at not totally unrealistic prices, I (and I believe a lot of others) will find the means to purchase them. And I am not just talking about a man's suit alone: Just more high-waisted, pleated trousers with era-correct wider-legs, for example. Or classy 40's-ish style suits for the ladies in the Lauren line. If Indy Magnoli (God bless you, Indy, by the way) can do it, why can't Ralph Lauren? The real issue is whether or not RL knows where his real market lies. And should he really ignore 4000+ potential buyers right here in the FL alone? So how do we start to flex our muscle?

 

[Travis]

I, for one, would buy suits from RL, or anyone else for that matter, new if they made what I want. Plain and simple. Vintage is great, but I don't actually own any vintage clothing (ties and accessories are a different story). It's hard to find them in my size, since I'm a bigger guy. If I could find someone to make a new, and affordably priced, classically styled belted back suit, I would love them forever.

 

[Orgetorix]

what twenty-something who can actually fit his trim, athletic body into one of these suits is going to pay $1500-2500 for one?

A fair number of people, largely on the coasts. New York, LA, etc.

If Indy Magnoli (God bless you, Indy, by the way) can do it, why can't Ralph Lauren? The real issue is whether or not RL knows where his real market lies.

Lauren is going to do whatever makes more money for him and increases his status as a designer. If he could serve those ends by catering to the vintage-repro market, he'd be doing it already. He certainly has come closer in his career to classic Anglo-American style than any other designer operating today.

And should he really ignore 4000+ potential buyers right here in the FL alone?

Only a fraction of those have the resources to spend on RL-level (or, for that matter Magnoli-level) goods. And even if every single one of those 5000+ members would buy a vintage-style suit (not likely), it's still a drop in the bucket for any major international clothing brand. I mean, Magnoli has been doing his thing for a while now, and doing it really well, but I doubt he's raking in dollars like Ralph is. He may not be hurting, but he's not on the road to riches, and my guess is he knows it. Members of the Fedora Lounge are clamoring for vintage-style clothing, but the general public, sad to say, isn't. Classic Style may do a bit to change that, but even so it'll be a long, slow, on-the-fringes-of-the-clothing-industry process.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

I, for one, would buy suits from RL, or anyone else for that matter, new if they made what I want.

I believe you. The important question is, how much would you be willing to pay?

.

 

[Paisley]

Well, I can go to a local vintage store and buy a suit for ~$60 to $80. Then I can take it to my tailor and have a little work done for $14 to $30 (I won't buy a suit if it doesn't fit pretty well to begin with).