What's the exact colour of ELC Werber 1729?

[alec0226]

Got my ELC Werber 1729 in May, try it on for some pics today. The colour of this jacket looks a lot darker than it looks on the ELC website, they call it Havana Brown.
Why my 1729 looks so dark? Is it the right colour? Actually I quite like the lighter brown colour in the ELC website picture.

 

[Brettafett]

Hi Alec. Very nice looking jacket, it seems to fit well also. Colour looks good to me. I have learned that one cannot judge the jacket you will receive by the website photos, I have never received a jacket that looks like the photo on the website. The website jackets always look sharp and ultra cool and the leather always has so much character etc... Why the difference? Not 100% sure. Perhaps its the studio lighting and styling... They have so many tricks to make the shot look exactly how they want it too. Also, the character and colour of a particular leather does vary slightly from batch to batch... I wouldn't worry though, you jacket looks great! Enjoy.

 

[alec0226]

Hi Alec. Very nice looking jacket, it seems to fit well also. Colour looks good to me. I have learned that one cannot judge the jacket you will receive by the website photos, I have never received a jacket that looks like the photo on the website. The website jackets always look sharp and ultra cool and the leather always has so much character etc... Why the difference? Not 100% sure. Perhaps its the studio lighting and styling... They have so many tricks to make the shot look exactly how they want it too. Also, the character and colour of a particular leather does vary slightly from batch to batch... I wouldn't worry though, you jacket looks great! Enjoy.

Thank you, Brettafett, I love this jacket anyway, and I agree with you that the colour of leather may vary from batch to batch，and maybe sometimes they vary too much.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

I think the leather color you received actually looks great especially with that knit. Even better than what is pictured on ELC's website IMO. So I hope you will be happy with it. ELC does a very good job on this contract BTW.
HD

 

[WhiskeyTangoFox]

alec0226:

Your jacket color looks very close to how mine looked when it was new. After 6 - 12 months of wear, the color will tone down a bit and become lighter from wear and sun exposure. Here are a couple fairly recent photos:





Noel

 

[alec0226]

alec0226:

Your jacket color looks very close to how mine looked when it was new. After 6 - 12 months of wear, the color will tone down a bit and become lighter from wear and sun exposure. Here are a couple fairly recent photos:





Noel

Fantastic colour! Wish mine could look like that someday.

 

[aswatland]

ELC's 1933 Werber is by far my favourite A2 from this maker. Mine is from the original production batch from around 2005/6 and is the one ELC jacket that I have not sold! It has lightened over the years and is the same colour as the original on their website.

 

[Stand By]

Hi Alec,
As Brettafett rightly points out, I too have learned that what you get (colour-wise) from ELC is sometimes different than shown on the website.
If you look again at some of the cotton and nylon jackets on there, they appear a great khaki/tan colour - but the write-up describes them as olive - which they correctly are! I do not believe that this is ELC being deceptive or careless or anything like that at all (and as rightly pointed out, hides vary between batches. It's just another one of those things that we love about leather jackets/gloves etc and makes each one unique in its own right after all).

I firmly believe is that this is purely a simple matter of metamerism - the quirk of the same object appearing as a different colour depending on the light source (like when you find that great article of clothing in a shop and buy it because you just love the shade of brown tan that it is, but then you get it home and try it on ... and suddenly it appears more brown-green !?!?).
All objects appear to us the way they do depending on how light reflects of its surface, but the other important thing to consider here is the source of that light.
Indoor lighting is a funny thing - there are fluorescent lights (some give off a yellow aura, some orange, some more peachy), incandescent lights, some are "natural daylight corrected" lights - and these all vary again between manufacturers (perhaps you have noticed yourself that some appear white whilst others have a distinctly cool-blue aura to them).

And then you posted YOUR photos of you wearing the jacket outdoors under natural light - and that again varies depending on whether it is direct or non-reflective light, so of course, the jacket will appear to be different again depending on where you are standing - i.e. the background - and what the sunlight is like on the day - and at that moment. So many variables ...
The images on the ELC website all appear (to me) to have been taken indoors under artificial light, so perhaps now you can see how the same jacket would appear slightly differently, depending on where it is.

And of course, let's not forget too that as you wear your jacket over the years and condition it and expose it to the elements, it itself will change shade anyway!

So, IMHO, at the end of the day, all that you CAN be completely certain of is that you have yourself an absolutely cracking A2 in a great colour that I really think looks fantastic and it fits you very well indeed. I think you chose very well and it looks great on you. Forget what shade it is/might be. Just look after it and enjoy it in all weathers - and in good health. Cheers!

 

[alec0226]

ELC's 1933 Werber is by far my favourite A2 from this maker. Mine is from the original production batch from around 2005/6 and is the one ELC jacket that I have not sold! It has lightened over the years and is the same colour as the original on their website.

Thank you, Andrew, I did some homework about ELC A-2 in this forum before I ordered this jacket, I find your comment about ELC 1729 is very helpful, thanks again!

 

[alec0226]

Hi Alec,
As Brettafett rightly points out, I too have learned that what you get (colour-wise) from ELC is sometimes different than shown on the website.
If you look again at some of the cotton and nylon jackets on there, they appear a great khaki/tan colour - but the write-up describes them as olive - which they correctly are! I do not believe that this is ELC being deceptive or careless or anything like that at all (and as rightly pointed out, hides vary between batches. It's just another one of those things that we love about leather jackets/gloves etc and makes each one unique in its own right after all).

I firmly believe is that this is purely a simple matter of metamerism - the quirk of the same object appearing as a different colour depending on the light source (like when you find that great article of clothing in a shop and buy it because you just love the shade of brown tan that it is, but then you get it home and try it on ... and suddenly it appears more brown-green !?!?).
All objects appear to us the way they do depending on how light reflects of its surface, but the other important thing to consider here is the source of that light.
Indoor lighting is a funny thing - there are fluorescent lights (some give off a yellow aura, some orange, some more peachy), incandescent lights, some are "natural daylight corrected" lights - and these all vary again between manufacturers (perhaps you have noticed yourself that some appear white whilst others have a distinctly cool-blue aura to them).

And then you posted YOUR photos of you wearing the jacket outdoors under natural light - and that again varies depending on whether it is direct or non-reflective light, so of course, the jacket will appear to be different again depending on where you are standing - i.e. the background - and what the sunlight is like on the day - and at that moment. So many variables ...
The images on the ELC website all appear (to me) to have been taken indoors under artificial light, so perhaps now you can see how the same jacket would appear slightly differently, depending on where it is.

And of course, let's not forget too that as you wear your jacket over the years and condition it and expose it to the elements, it itself will change shade anyway!

So, IMHO, at the end of the day, all that you CAN be completely certain of is that you have yourself an absolutely cracking A2 in a great colour that I really think looks fantastic and it fits you very well indeed. I think you chose very well and it looks great on you. Forget what shade it is/might be. Just look after it and enjoy it in all weathers - and in good health. Cheers!

Yes, I agree with you that the light source would make a difference, maybe they used a special light source to make that jacket look like it has been worn for a longtime and show the right colour.

 

[Brettafett]

Hi Alec,
In fact, I really like this jacket, it is also my ELC favourite and I may even consider one at some point. My only issue (and that is simply a current perspective...), is that I am not sure about the lighter shade of knits. I have already asked ELC if they would consider putting mid brown knits on one, but this was a no go. ELC does not make alterations and that is understandable and a fine thing. Who knows... my mind might change at some point...

 

[Stand By]

QUOTE=alec0226;1685633]

Yes, I agree with you that the light source would make a difference, maybe they used a special light source to make that jacket look like it has been worn for a longtime and show the right colour.[/QUOTE]

Hmmm. Still not convincing you ....
As talented as I know ELC to be, I am certain that their expertise lies with tailoring and history - and not photography. As I said, I am certain that they merely created a standardised way to take their (very nice, IMO) photographs and they stick with it for the purposes of consistency.
As someone who has been taking clinical photographs of patients for 20 years, I am all too aware of how light will affect the way something looks. I create facial prosthetics made of silicone for a living, and naturally, besides symmetry in my sculpting, people demand/expect perfect colour matching and camouflage and these things always appear slightly differently depending on the light source ...

But that said, I would ask you - what is the correct colour?
I would say that there is NO correct colour - merely a degree of acceptable variance and that the jacket should have the correct character you would expect.
Originals of these jackets are now 70+ years old - they've aged and changed colour. And the colour photographs of the day are great, but as they were taken on 35mm too, they also have aged, so there is no definite reference.

As a model maker since 1972 (when I was 6) and as someone who considers himself to be "a gifted copier" and considering my personality and what I do for a living, I am all about perfection in colour matching, sculpting and symmetry etc. I indulged myself in my hobby and built my models to be as authentic to the original object as possible and my favourite part was always painting and camouflage - no wonder it is where I learned my craft and fundamentally helped me to do what I do today for a profession.
When I built a Kriegsmarine Scharnhorst a few years ago, I did an awful lot of reasearch into obtainng the absolute correct colours of one of the paint schemes it briefly had -and I surprisingly learnt that ALL of the RLM (German War Ministry) colour formulas were actually quite subjective (how very un-German!) - as paint was limited and it varied from batch-to-batch. Plus there are only so many (as in few) colour photos of the ship itself and these are old and the light was sometimes bright and sometimes dark, which made it appear so very different. So what colour was the battleship exactly?
Nobody knows.

So what this boils down to is how your jacket appears to you and your "eye" and merely if you think it looks "right".

Kindly allow me give you an example:
As a kid, and like all kids in the UK, I loved Thunderbirds - and became passionate about all things by Gerry Anderson, but Thunderbirds first. And in our house, we were very fortunate as my dad was doing well with his job and we had a colour television - not bad for 1971/1972! But of course, it was a CRT TV and the show was recorded on film and broadcast via terrestrial (analogue) transmission - and so the programme had an overall distinctly blue-grey/smokey patina and had the associated blemishes on it too - but did I care? Not a jot! It looked amazing and it blew my little mind as here was a fantastic world in which I wished I could live.
And it looked exactly the same way when Thunderbirds was released on VHS in the late 1980s ...
And for me, the star of the show was always Thunderbird 2 and when I think of it, THIS is how I think of it looking as it did on VHS:


Now, fast forward to 2000 and along comes the remastered DVDs of Thunderbirds - and everything is cleaned up.
Me? I hate it. It looks too clean. The pictures are bright and no longer "smokey" - and it lost that aura and a certain appeal for me. And the models look brighter and fresh (just like they were when they were made)- and the models all look more like models to me. But - THIS IS THE CORRECT COLOUR of Thunderbird 2. It's absolutely more correct than the colour that was imprinted in my mind as a kid and in my teenage years.

But I dont like it - and it's not how I think Thunderbird 2 should look, but there it is.
See it compared to this below and you'll see what I mean:


So all I'm saying is, I think your jacket has the correct look of that spec. of jacket. It's a winner.
Beyond that, if you think your jacket still lacks the appearance of being "worn" as you think it looks on the ELC website, then I'd say wear it - and as often as possible and in all weathers - like the originals were. There's no substitute for that aged look other than doing that.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Wow..!! :eeek:

 

[Stand By]

What can I say? It's a quiet day ....

 

[HoosierDaddy]

I though it was great..!!..but part way through I had to pause to get a ham sandwich & Coke.

 

[Stand By]

Ha!Ha!Ha!

Well, if I've got something to say, I only ever offer up something positive - or constructive.

 

[Worf]

I though it was great..!!..but part way through I had to pause to get a ham sandwich & Coke.

Hey! Hey! HEY!!!! Did'ja bring enough for EVERYBODY!!?? Why not? Cain't a brother get a ham sammich in this dump?

Worf

 

[Stand By]

And I think some of the Cokes need a shot of Bacardi .... wouldn't hurt. ;-)

 

[alec0226]

QUOTE=alec0226;1685633]

Yes, I agree with you that the light source would make a difference, maybe they used a special light source to make that jacket look like it has been worn for a longtime and show the right colour.[/QUOTE]

Hmmm. Still not convincing you ....
As talented as I know ELC to be, I am certain that their expertise lies with tailoring and history - and not photography. As I said, I am certain that they merely created a standardised way to take their (very nice, IMO) photographs and they stick with it for the purposes of consistency.
As someone who has been taking clinical photographs of patients for 20 years, I am all too aware of how light will affect the way something looks. I create facial prosthetics made of silicone for a living, and naturally, besides symmetry in my sculpting, people demand/expect perfect colour matching and camouflage and these things always appear slightly differently depending on the light source ...

But that said, I would ask you - what is the correct colour?
I would say that there is NO correct colour - merely a degree of acceptable variance and that the jacket should have the correct character you would expect.
Originals of these jackets are now 70+ years old - they've aged and changed colour. And the colour photographs of the day are great, but as they were taken on 35mm too, they also have aged, so there is no definite reference.

As a model maker since 1972 (when I was 6) and as someone who considers himself to be "a gifted copier" and considering my personality and what I do for a living, I am all about perfection in colour matching, sculpting and symmetry etc. I indulged myself in my hobby and built my models to be as authentic to the original object as possible and my favourite part was always painting and camouflage - no wonder it is where I learned my craft and fundamentally helped me to do what I do today for a profession.
When I built a Kriegsmarine Scharnhorst a few years ago, I did an awful lot of reasearch into obtainng the absolute correct colours of one of the paint schemes it briefly had -and I surprisingly learnt that ALL of the RLM (German War Ministry) colour formulas were actually quite subjective (how very un-German!) - as paint was limited and it varied from batch-to-batch. Plus there are only so many (as in few) colour photos of the ship itself and these are old and the light was sometimes bright and sometimes dark, which made it appear so very different. So what colour was the battleship exactly?
Nobody knows.

So what this boils down to is how your jacket appears to you and your "eye" and merely if you think it looks "right".

Kindly allow me give you an example:
As a kid, and like all kids in the UK, I loved Thunderbirds - and became passionate about all things by Gerry Anderson, but Thunderbirds first. And in our house, we were very fortunate as my dad was doing well with his job and we had a colour television - not bad for 1971/1972! But of course, it was a CRT TV and the show was recorded on film and broadcast via terrestrial (analogue) transmission - and so the programme had an overall distinctly blue-grey/smokey patina and had the associated blemishes on it too - but did I care? Not a jot! It looked amazing and it blew my little mind as here was a fantastic world in which I wished I could live.
And it looked exactly the same way when Thunderbirds was released on VHS in the late 1980s ...
And for me, the star of the show was always Thunderbird 2 and when I think of it, THIS is how I think of it looking as it did on VHS:
View attachment 4330

Now, fast forward to 2000 and along comes the remastered DVDs of Thunderbirds - and everything is cleaned up.
Me? I hate it. It looks too clean. The pictures are bright and no longer "smokey" - and it lost that aura and a certain appeal for me. And the models look brighter and fresh (just like they were when they were made)- and the models all look more like models to me. But - THIS IS THE CORRECT COLOUR of Thunderbird 2. It's absolutely more correct than the colour that was imprinted in my mind as a kid and in my teenage years.
View attachment 4332
But I dont like it - and it's not how I think Thunderbird 2 should look, but there it is.
See it compared to this below and you'll see what I mean:
View attachment 4331

So all I'm saying is, I think your jacket has the correct look of that spec. of jacket. It's a winner.
Beyond that, if you think your jacket still lacks the appearance of being "worn" as you think it looks on the ELC website, then I'd say wear it - and as often as possible and in all weathers - like the originals were. There's no substitute for that aged look other than doing that.

Thank you very much, Stand By, I am totally,absolutely convinced! No kidding. Sure I'm gonna wear it as much as I can, it's a great pleasure wearing A-2, I'm gonna leave all my other jackets like MA-1,CWU-36/P, 45/P in the closet this year

 

[Stand By]

Thank you very much, Stand By, I am totally,absolutely convinced! No kidding. Sure I'm gonna wear it as much as I can, it's a great pleasure wearing A-2, I'm gonna leave all my other jackets like MA-1,CWU-36/P, 45/P in the closet this year

You are most welcome, Alec - and I'm really glad to hear that you're now more settled with your great choice of jacket . And I'm glad I got through to you without me needing to go in to hue, value and chroma ! (Never mind a sandwich - HoosierDaddy will be cooking up a roast dinner!!)
Sometimes (around here), I do occasionally feel that it's too easy to lose sight of the wood for the trees - and people can be left feeling discontented with what they have - when what they have is actually great.
I myself can admit that I can sometimes be slow to embrace change - because I don't necessarily always see/recognise a good thing when it presents itself ...
But I can see with your jacket that it's a winner. It's Premier League - and I really wish I'd had one like yours - compared to my first A2 (which was much more old Division Two i.e. Sheffield Wednesday) which I bought in 1988 and wore for 17 years. 17 years. And where is it today ? I painted on the back panel (always my favourite thing about that jacket) that is now framed on my bathroom wall - and, suffice to say, this is all that remains of the rest of it:



It's really no loss to the universe - and the difference being that yours will never end up this way!
Since then, I moved onwards and upwards to an ELC A2 (352nd A2) and today I have my ANJ-3 - but I still occasionally hanker for an A2 - and I can say wholeheartedly that if I do get one, it will be exactly like yours. To me, with its lighter tones, it looks distinctly Mediterranean Theatre. The colours are sufficiently different to my ANJ-3 that I'd love the other look occasionally. It's a beautiful thing.
Treasure it and wear it with pride and in good health. Cheers !