What's the difference between these two capeskin jackets?

[phario]

For some years now, I've been hemming and hawing on buying a lightweight leather jacket.

I'm wondering if people here can compare the Bill Kelso A1 (currently £850) https://billkelsomfg.com/shop/product/custom-type-a-1/

with the Eastman A1: https://www.eastmanleather.com/original-maker-jackets/162-type-a-1-contract-31-800p.html

The price gap is £350.

I'm not sure I have the economy to blow about a grand on such a light jacket, but I suppose that's a different matter...

 

[Carlos840]

I would always favour Eastman above BK, they offer a better customer service, and IMO better made jackets.
I would not give BK my money under any circumstances...

 

[phario]

I would always favour Eastman above BK, they offer a better customer service, and IMO better made jackets.
I would not give BK my money under any circumstances...

I have not been a member on these boards for that long, but I've seen some of these opinions about BK previously. My understanding is that there is a lot of backstory that newer members are missing, and it's not easy to find this backstory.

I don't think it's very informative to tell people "I would not give my money....under any circumstance" without even giving a hint about what some of this backstory is. Please could you write a few words?

 

[Carlos840]

I have not been a member on these boards for that long, but I've seen some of these opinions about BK previously. My understanding is that there is a lot of backstory that newer members are missing, and it's not easy to find this backstory.

I don't think it's very informative to tell people "I would not give my money....under any circumstance" without even giving a hint about what some of this backstory is. Please could you write a few words?

I know it's not super helpful, but i also don't want to ruin your thread and turn it into a BK war. I have also been threatened by Andy multiple times, when people write things he doesn't like on TFL he lashes out and threatens with lawsuits. If you google "fedora lounge bill kelso" you will find everything you need to know.

To me the main problem with BK is the secrecy about where they are made, there are rumours that they are actually made in Pakistan, which would make them really overpriced compared to what you can get from 5 stars for example.

If we ignore the drama and focus on the jackets i still think you are getting a better jacket going with Eastman.

 

[phario]

I know it's not super helpful, but i also don't want to ruin your thread and turn it into a BK war. I have also been threatened by Andy multiple times, when people write things he doesn't like on TFL he lashes out and threatens with lawsuits. If you google "fedora lounge bill kelso" you will find everything you need to know.

To me the main problem with BK is the secrecy about where they are made, there are rumours that they are actually made in Pakistan, which would make them really overpriced compared to what you can get from 5 stars for example.

If we ignore the drama and focus on the jackets i still think you are getting a better jacket going with Eastman.

I appreciate your sensitivity and also appreciate the private messages I've recieved that have tried to clarify some things. Hopefully the above helps future buyers as well, in case they want to better understand the issues.

 

[Aloysius]

Bear in mind that the A-1, of all the military jacket types, has been the most directly absorbed into mainstream clothing. You can find them pretty much everywhere, in every material, and unlike the A-2 the overall cut, button, and pocket layout tend to be like the originals.

They're among the most common casual jackets in Italy, for instance. I have a cotton one from a British tailoring (not workwear) firm. Don't feel like you need to stick to "repro-land" to get a good A-1.

 

[Damon141]

Eastman has a great reputation for A2 and flight jackets on the other forum, they Even have made jackets for historical war movies.

I guess it comes down to whether you need custom sizing modifications which bill kelso can offer.

But I will repeat what people warned me of, you might consider only items that have been reproduced before versus a model that shows a picture from vintage leather jacket books or a diagram. Then research feedback on that model.

 

[Xopher]

I don’t really know much of the back story with BK or the politics involved.

I do however have two BK jackets. The Duke in Victory Horse and the the Grizzly in liberty Horse.

They are both very fine jackets, and I’m pleased with the material and construction on both.
I’m planning on a third from them.

I find their quality to price point really good. They clock in just shy of $1200 delivered usually.
Sometimes discounts down to $1000.

Whereas ELC is something around $1500, which is just enough out of my reach that I lean toward BK.

With 5 Star you can get a nice jacket for about $450, but I do much prefer BK hides to 5 star.

I also have found that 5 star makes a very boxy shoulder pattern on the A-1s that I have had from them, which make it very constricting in the shoulders and why I sold them.

On BK jackets the shoulders are made in a way that allows more ease of motion in my experience. So with the hides and cut of the pattern I find myself shelling out the extra $600 on a BK rather than 5 Star.

I once asked BK about their capeskin and they said that they are the only manufacturer who gets true Capeskin from whatever specific sheep or region they originally came from in the 1930s, and that this stuff has more defined striating and grain than most other sheep. I don’t know much about it but I have noticed their jackets have a really cool grain to them that I don’t see other places, so maybe it’s true.

As I recall ELC was the only manufacturer who owned an original A-1 to replicate. BK may have gotten one to replicate but I can’t confirm. I don’t think 5 Star has an original.

I think you would be pleased with the products of any one of these 3 brands. I think it’s more just a matter of price range.

$400, $1000, or $1500

Oh one other thing. ELC has stock offerings, so they can ship immediately, but no customizations other than length.

BK does full custom work, so if you want a specific lining or buttons or knit cuffs they will do it. They do have a waiting period of about 4ish months in my experience

 

[Aloysius]

I wouldn't have recommended them a year ago because they had a bad period (probably caused by COVID), but they made things right with customers subsequently, so I can suggest that you look at Headwind as well. Their products have been very well received by the vintage militaria community. Their patterns in particular have gotten a lot of praise.

The Headwind A-1 goes for $515. They also nail the capeskin.