What makes a suit "cheap"?

[Cousin Hepcat]

There are plenty of great threads on F.L. about what to look for.

What are the subtleties of what to avoid in a vintage or reproduction 1930s-40s suit?

This isn't a request for posting outrageous pics of 1970s Napolean Dynamite's pumpkin-colored tuxedo or John Travolta's disco suits... This is just for 1930s-40s style suits, both original and reproduction: What are the subtleties that would give it away to someone who knows clothes as very cheaply or poorly made, and to avoid when making a purchase?

Thanks
- Cousin Hepcat

 

[Tony in Tarzana]

Ever heard the old phrase...

"I'll be all over you like a cheap suit"?

 

[Grimstar]

Polyester!! lol But seriously, quality of fabric is a big one. Quality of linings, as well, along with the material the pockets are made of. Stitching, as in number of stitches to the inch in seams...cheaper suits will have larger and fewer stitches, because it's faster for the poor shleps in the workroom to knock them out that way. The amount of hand sewing that goes in is a good indicator of quality. The more that has to be done by hand, the more expensive it will be; but the hand work also means that the suit got more attention in the making up. General fit and finish, also...if the seams are nice and even, don't pucker, and hang correctly, the suit is probably of decent quality. Little touches like hand made buttonholes (which actually look pretty rough on the inside) almost certainly mean quality, because they are so time consuming to do. All that being said, a good suit can be made with little or no hand sewing. Buttons are also a good thing to check...do they look like cheap plastic, or are they at least a decent imitation of horn? There are so many details that go into a good suit, it's hard to say just which ones to look for.

I almost forgot...some people put great store about whether the stripes on a pinstripe suit match up....on pockets and such, they should; but at the shoulder and lapel seams, they won't, unless you're very lucky. This is because of the shape and angle of the different pieces of fabric at the collar, and on the shoulder seam, the fabric at the back is actually longer than the fabric at the front, and is eased in to provide fullness in the back...it's not possible to do that and still match the stripes.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Cousin Hepcat:


If you buy through eBay, you'll have a hard time determining from photos whether a vintage '30s-'40s suit's construction/fabric is cheap or not. That's the "Achilles' heel" of online shopping.

Sometimes, the labels of suits can indicate their quality. For example, a custom-made vintage suit will often -- but not always! -- be of good quality. Labels usually say whether a suit is custom tailored or not. Also, certain ready-to-wear suit manufacturers were famous for their quality. Look for vintage suits with labels from these U.S. makers:

-- Hart, Schaffner & Marx
-- Hickey-Freeman
-- Fashion Park
-- Joseph Feiss
-- Oxford (or, after 1940, Oxxford)
-- Palm Beach Cloth
-- Richman Brothers


Finally, the stores that sold suits are indicators of their quality. Keep your eye out for vintage suits with labels from these U.S. stores, many of which no longer exist:

-- Saks & Co. (department store)
-- I. Magnin (department store)
-- Brooks Brothers
-- Best & Co. (department store)
-- Rogers Peet & Co.
-- Paul Stuart
-- Chipp
-- J. Press
-- John Wanamaker & Co. (department store)
-- Abraham & Strauss (department store)
-- Bullock's (department store)
-- Desmond's (department store)
-- Alexander & Oviatt ... and, after 1928, Oviatt's
-- F.R. Tripler & Co.
-- Marshall Field & Co. (department store)
-- The Hub (department store)
-- Thalheimer's (department store)


The list above is by no means definitive. I invite other Loungers to add to it.


.

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

How about fine department store labels also?

Here in Ohio near Cleveland, we had department stores that were locally based. Halle's, Higbee's, Sterling Lindner,....and probably a few others I am forgetting. But these finer department stores carried high quality clothing. I think with store name labels, but really made by famous makers.Other cities across the country had their own local stores as well, some found only in one city.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Middishade made a quality product. And Dunhill.

Really, though, i haven't seen a 20s-40s suit that survived until today that was badly made. Maybe other FLoungers with more experience can tell a different story. The badly made ones i guess just didn't make it.

bk

I guess the best way to tell if somthing is badly made is to try it on. If there's any weird bulging on any of the seams, maybe that's where a machine made garment would fall down. Without the human "hands-on" input, these things might get missed ...

 

[Marc Chevalier]

I have seen many badly made suits that survived the decades. In fact, it's rare that I run into a very finely made vintage suit from before 1950. That could be because:

a) rich men didn't need to hold onto their suits for as long as other men did, so they threw them out long ago. Not-so-rich men held on to their suits longer, which means that they have entered the resale market (thrift stores, estate sales, yard sales) more recently.

b) rich men's suits were often made of fabrics that were fine and expensive, but not necessarily long-wearing. In contrast, lesser suits were often made of heavy, stiff wool. Sure, the wool was scratchy and draped like cardboard ... but it lasted like armor. Salary men couldn't afford to replace their two or three suits every year. I can't tell you how many old suits I've seen that were shiny from repeated use, and whose lapels were made narrow at some point, due to the changes of fashion. Suits like these were worn from the '30s all the way to the '60s. Incredible, but true?

 

[ArrowCollarMan]

How much ployester is too much? I'm considering buying a suit that is 53% polyester and 47% cotton. Is this of low quality?

 

[herringbonekid]

fused interfacing.....get a cheap suit wet and the lapels might just form air bubbles where the outer fabric is glued to the interfacing.

 

[herringbonekid]

while not exactly 'cheap' many english wartime 'utility label' (CC41) suits are average in quality. they were just high-street store suits (often burtons) churned out for ex servicemen. the finish around the lapels is often a bit wonky.

however, cheap then isn't the same as cheap now...

i have some late-30s american workwear trousers and they are probably the cheapest, most badly made item of vintage clothing i own. but the cut is still great, and they have a kind of poverty-row charm.

 

[John in Covina]

I always look for an all wool suit for the three seasons Fall Winter Spring, i haven't ever purchase a summer suit like the linen type.

 

[Bargepole]

How much ployester is too much? I'm considering buying a suit that is 53% polyester and 47% cotton. Is this of low quality?

*Any* polyester is too much to get an authentic drape and finish; anything over 5% and it'll be visible in an odd creepy reflective sheen on the fabric. 100% wool is always the best (those featherweight wools are cooler than anything else in summer), followed by heavy cotton poplin for the summer, and indeed linen if you don't mind that crumpled look. (My tailor explained this to me: "You can't wear linen. Linen crumples. You yourself are a crumpled man. Man and suit should not have the same demeanour." I.e. as a short stocky crumpled man I must wear long slim sharp suits. Painful but true.)

As always your mileage may vary.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

And those polyester blend suits form little "pills" wherever there's any friction. Can't stand those things.

.

 

[herringbonekid]

"... Man and suit should not have the same demeanour."

i see your tailor's point but i'm not sure i agree with this concept.
i've always seen clothes as an extention of your personality, your inner self. i think they give visual clues as to your ideals and aspirations.
visually i see no reason why a tall thin man shouldn't wear a tall thin suit. see Nick Cave for an illustration of how this works.

 

[TommySalieri]

Most of my suits are custom-made. Obviously, they're not brand new! But they always do the trick. Quality isin't a factor for me, so long as they don't shine under light or fall apart while I'm walking down the street.


Does anybody have any info on a "Jim's" in Tell City, IN? One my of three pieces was custom made there. I've also got a pinstripe from a "H. Freeman & Son". I've attempted to search Jim's online but to no avail.

 

[matei]

Like the previous post, most of my suits are custom made as well. I have had some bad experiences with cheap suits however.

The first thing that usually happens is that the trousers wear through on the inner thighs from rubbing during walking. I had a polyester blend suit that did this to me. My 100% wool suits have yet to do this, and I've worn them more often for a longer period of time.

I also had some catalogue-ordered suits that just did not fit right. I'm between a regular and long, and these suits were either too long or too short. They way the gorge sat and the button holes were made made it impossible to really alter them too much.

As someone else pointed out, polyester does tend to show up as a cheap looking sheen - especially in direct sunlight, and it also makes the suit very hot and uncomfortable to wear in warm weather.

I've heard some marketing saying that a polyester/wool blend is preferable - as wool will wrinkle faster, I think it is not worth it. My heavier wool suits straighten out overnight on the hanger, as the weight of the material pulls out the wrinkles.

Last but not least - I've had a cheap wool suit that started to "pucker", especially around the armholes. Looked really bad, I don't know what caused that.

 

[Zach R.]

I've been meaning to ask, are terelene and viscose simply variations of polyester or something else entirely? I know that viscose is a type of rayon fabric, but I'm not sure about terelene.

 

[Matt Deckard]

There are plenty of great threads on F.L. about what to look for.

What are the subtleties of what to avoid in a vintage or reproduction 1930s-40s suit?

This isn't a request for posting outrageous pics of 1970s Napolean Dynamite's pumpkin-colored tuxedo or John Travolta's disco suits... This is just for 1930s-40s style suits, both original and reproduction: What are the subtleties that would give it away to someone who knows clothes as very cheaply or poorly made, and to avoid when making a purchase?

Thanks
- Cousin Hepcat

Well... first off the fabric. If it has a papery feel and just looks shaby in shape that is a good determiner off the bat. Material and fit are key, though it all comes down to jacket construction, and if the jacket is badly made then you don't have a suit.

You can look at the seams, primarily on the shoulder and see if they are straight. See if the shoulders are lumpy. See if the lining is papery and cheesy. A cheapo suit has a cheap lining. Is their felt under the collar or some sort of paper thingy... the felt or wool is better. Is the jacket balanced when buttoned or is one side hanging lower than the other.

On a cheap suit the lapels are usually glued together inside and with time they begin to curl outward.