What Happened....

[LizzieMaine]

American cheese is a favorite here as well. I often eat three or four individually-wrapped slices as a late night/just home from work supper before going to bed. At that point in the night I'm too tired to cook anything, and too tired to care. Plus it doesn't dirty up any more dishes, I don't have to take calcium supplements, and I will likely never get osteoporosis.

If I don't have any cheese, I'll often eat tuna fish right out of the can with a fork. Put a little salt on it, and there you go. A supper I can share with my cat.

 

[Paisley]

That gives me an idea: Velveeta. I love cheese sauce, but it makes my face break out. I see Velveeta doesn't actually contain cheese. Perfect. I'll pour it on some organic vegetables or pasture-raised meat for a dish that probably nobody else would want to eat.

 

[Fading Fast]

...At that point in the night I'm too tired to cook anything, and too tired to care. Plus it doesn't dirty up any more dishes...

When I'm home alone, the sink has served as a table for many a meal / snack - makes clean up a breeze. I'm too cheap to do it and I know it's bad for the environment, but if I wasn't and it wasn't, I'd eat off of paper plates every day and just toss them when done.

I don't mind doing dishes, etc., always have / always will do them, but the few times a year when we have left over paper - a nephew's birthday party or something, for the next few days, I love grabbing one, eating something on it and just tossing it in the garbage.

 

[Paisley]

I talked to a woman today who was in a tizzy because she couldn't afford to send her daughter to Boston University (even with scholarships) to get an art history degree. Oh, but the daughter was passionate about art history, and the Boston U scholarship was the best deal out of all the schools that accepted her because they offered the biggest scholarship (never mind what they charge). No, the family wasn't wealthy or well-connected and didn't live anywhere near Boston. And no, the mom didn't seem like the sort of person who'd wonder if she was wrong about anything.

 

[Stearmen]

I will always maintain, the reason for the decline in hat wearing was because the WWII servicemen were tired of being told to wear one! When they started to get into positions of management, the hat went away.

 

[BlueTrain]

That might be why I don't like wearing baseball caps.

 

[Fading Fast]

I talked to a woman today who was in a tizzy because she couldn't afford to send her daughter to Boston University (even with scholarships) to get an art history degree. Oh, but the daughter was passionate about art history, and the Boston U scholarship was the best deal out of all the schools that accepted her because they offered the biggest scholarship (never mind what they charge). No, the family wasn't wealthy or well-connected and didn't live anywhere near Boston. And no, the mom didn't seem like the sort of person who'd wonder if she was wrong about anything.

There does seem to be some sort of feedback loop between some parents and their kids with the parents wanting to be able to send their kids to "the school of their dreams" which gets in the kids' heads, "hey, I want to go to the school of my dreams," which must create more pressure on the parents and more expectations for the kids.

As we've discussed before, we know that 17 and 18 year olds aren't as mature decision makers as they will be, but a more pragmatic approach from above (their parents), along the lines of "let's discuss it all out, figure out what makes sense for you, for your future, for all of our finances - expenses, cashflow, debt, etc. - and try to make a joint rational decision would be a better approach than "let's get you to the school of your dreams."

 

[LizzieMaine]

BU? She'd better be passionate about beer.

 

[BlueTrain]

I had no relatives who attended college, save for two cousins who moved far away, so I never received any meaningful college or career advice from any family member. All of my teachers assumed I would go to college, though, so there was pressure just the same.

The only advice I ever received was from a retired teacher who had taught in a one-room school (this was in the backwoods of West Virginia--I kid you not). He told me to get all my classes scheduled in the mornings so I'd have my afternoons free. I missed more of those eight o'clock classes than was good for me.

 

[LizzieMaine]

My last year of high school I did exactly that. Worked a full time 40 hour a week job the rest of the day/early evening.

 

[ChiTownScion]

My last year of high school I did exactly that. Worked a full time 40 hour a week job the rest of the day/early evening.

Just as a matter of curiosity: were your grades better than they were when you worked all those hours?

I tried to avoid working during the school year when I was an undergrad, but I had no choice in law school- esp. my last year. At one point I was holding down six classes- including Conflicts of Law and a Federal Income Taxation class- while working a 40 hour week. Damned near killed me and I had nothing resembling a social life, but I found that my grades were the highest then. I was forced to budget time and I think that pushed me to forgo any inclination at slacking off.

 

[BlueTrain]

I worked practically full time in college but I didn't work in high school. Although I had a bad freshman year, the rest of my time there was okay and I did graduate, finally. I was just an average student.

 

[Fading Fast]

I worked about 20+ hours a week in college and 50 or 60 hours whenever not (winter and spring break and summers) and found I had plenty of time to study, but not much time for socializing because I studied hard. Class time is not that much, maybe 15-20 hours a week (depending on course load), so adding work and study was possible, but everything else got squeezed.

For me, all this made life easier as once I started working full time after college, I found I had more free time which is the opposite experience of most people. I thought full-time work was much easier than college as I went from an hourly wage to a salary that was only okay for a college grad, but great compared to my hourly wage and I had, as noted, more free time.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Grades were pretty much the same before or after -- "A" student in history and English, "C" or "D" student in math and science. Also an "A" in bookkeeping and typing -- in lieu of classwork, I just submitted the books I kept from the gas station and got credit for them.

It wasn't really my choice. After my grandfather and uncle died toward the end of my junior year, my grandmother got very sick and couldn't run the station by herself. I was the only one left in the family who could, so I did. That lasted right up until Texaco abruptly shut us down a week before my graduation -- they were pulling out of this part of Maine and despite forty years at our location, we didn't even get the courtesy of written notice. I don't know what made me madder -- being out of a job or the way in which I ended up out of a job.

The worst part of that year was being constantly sleep deprived. I got to where I was falling asleep in class, and had migraines from the stress on a regular basis. I actually have almost no memories of my senior year other than being in the drama club. I know I also did yearbook and was the co-editor of the school paper, but my memories of those are all a blur, and I had no social life at all. I couldn't even remember my locker combination most of the time, and ended up taping the latch open so I wouldn't have to.

 

[MikeKardec]

One thing I've never been told was that I was over-educated.

I've always thought that "over-qualified" was just a less insulting way of saying we don't want you. Having been an employer, though not in a giant-office sort of business, I would always want an "over qualified" employee and would think they were someone who was good for the company and could eventually handle additional responsibilities. But I tended to hire people for who they were rather than to fill a job, then I'd delegate the sort of work to them that they seemed to be good at.

Today, I work with (not for, thank god) a huge corporation and it is painful to see how the top brass has eliminated all the really serious contenders for their jobs that existed in the lower ranks. With one exception it is a company of drones and any replacement of senior executives will have to come from the outside, someone who has no institutional memory. There is no doubt that this has been done to either protect the jobs at the top or to keep the top people from ever being challenged on their ideas. A real shame.

 

[Fading Fast]

Grades were pretty much the same before or after -- "A" student in history and English, "C" or "D" student in math and science. Also an "A" in bookkeeping and typing -- in lieu of classwork, I just submitted the books I kept from the gas station and got credit for them.

It wasn't really my choice. After my grandfather and uncle died toward the end of my junior year, my grandmother got very sick and couldn't run the station by herself. I was the only one left in the family who could, so I did. That lasted right up until Texaco abruptly shut us down a week before my graduation -- they were pulling out of this part of Maine and despite forty years at our location, we didn't even get the courtesy of written notice. I don't know what made me madder -- being out of a job or the way in which I ended up out of a job.

The worst part of that year was being constantly sleep deprived. I got to where I was falling asleep in class, and had migraines from the stress on a regular basis. I actually have almost no memories of my senior year other than being in the drama club. I know I also did yearbook and was the co-editor of the school paper, but my memories of those are all a blur, and I had no social life at all. I couldn't even remember my locker combination most of the time, and ended up taping the latch open so I wouldn't have to.

Nowhere near the same thing as having your business unceremoniously shut down after 40 years, but I did work for one company for 16 years (through several mergers, buyouts, etc., where I was asked several times "to stick it out and helps us transition") and had been in my, at the time, present position for four year (or, with a slight tweak, eight), had just gotten an "exceeds / exceeds" review (Corporate America is numbing) and added responsibility and was told, without any warning at all, at 8am on a Monday that my area was being shut down and I should leave as soon as possible that morning (and someone watched that I did).

I was "okay" with it as I understood - having seen it happen to others and myself years ago - that the narrative of "jobs for life," "corporate loyalty" etc. was a false one. I had once believed it and learning that it was a lie took some time to adjust to mentally, but once I did, I realized that I, and most of us, are baseball players (without the big salaries) that owe the team nothing more than an honest days work for an honest days pay, but should be looking at opportunities on other teams all the time / as the team is looking at whether they can do without you all the time.

It's ruthless but honest. I can live with that better than the "stick by us, we'll stick by you" lie that was told to me when I started in the '80s and is still sometimes told when they want you to stay around in tough times for the company.

 

[LizzieMaine]

In retrospect we should have seen it coming -- in 1978, Texaco terminated our lease and gave us 60 days to either vacate or buy the building and continue as a dealer-owned station. We couldn't afford to buy the building, but my grandfather was too old to do anything else and my uncle was only 44 and expected to live at least more than another two years, so they went deep into debt to buy the place. Two years later they both died, and three years later Texaco terminated us completely. They've since pulled completely out of Maine -- which is the sort of thing that's common for oil companies today. But in the 1970s, we honestly had no idea that this would ever happen -- Texaco proudly boasted it was the only company to operate in all 50 states, and had a strong jobber network of small distributors that had personal relationships with the local dealers. All that was swept away over the space of just a few years, and it was "you worked yourself to death for us, now get lost."

C. E. Jackson, 1904-1980. A man who shouldn'tve died broke.

 

[belfastboy]

Nowhere near the same thing as having your business unceremoniously shut down after 40 years, but I did work for one company for 16 years (through several mergers, buyouts, etc., where I was asked several times "to stick it out and helps us transition") and had been in my, at the time, present position for four year (or, with a slight tweak, eight), had just gotten an "exceeds / exceeds" review (Corporate America is numbing) and added responsibility and was told, without any warning at all, at 8am on a Monday that my area was being shut down and I should leave as soon as possible that morning (and someone watched that I did).

I was "okay" with it as I understood - having seen it happen to others and myself years ago - that the narrative of "jobs for life," "corporate loyalty" etc. was a false one. I had once believed it and learning that it was a lie took some time to adjust to mentally, but once I did, I realized that I, and most of us, are baseball players (without the big salaries) that owe the team nothing more than an honest days work for an honest days pay, but should be looking at opportunities on other teams all the time / as the team is looking at whether they can do without you all the time.

It's ruthless but honest. I can live with that better than the "stick by us, we'll stick by you" lie that was told to me when I started in the '80s and is still sometimes told when they want you to stay around in tough times for the company.

In my first real job an older (more experienced) coworker told me prior to asking for a raise.."Always go into the meeting with your resignation letter in your pocket, a fair figure in mind, and if you don't get that number, hand in the letter. It will the only way you will ever begin to get fairly compensated." I was appalled, shocked and disillusioned, thinking that the world was fair, that my good work would be recognized and compensated. I was appalled and wrong. It is the best advice I ever received and turned out to be much truer than not throughout my working life.

 

[Fading Fast]

In my first real job an older (more experienced) coworker told me prior to asking for a raise.."Always go into the meeting with your resignation letter in your pocket, a fair figure in mind, and if you don't get that number, hand in the letter. It will the only way you will ever begin to get fairly compensated." I was appalled, shocked and disillusioned, thinking that the world was fair, that my good work would be recognized and compensated. I was appalled and wrong. It is the best advice I ever received and turned out to be much truer than not throughout my working life.

It cost me several years of additional compensation and career advancement to unlearn the advice I got before working (and at my first company by an older gentleman) which was to keep your head down, work hard, don't make waves and you'll be recognized. What a bunch of BS. While that happened a few times, in the great majority of times, I had to be my own advocate - politely and professionally petitioning for fair compensation and advancement. You were fortunate to have been told the truth early on.

 

[ChrisB]

It may be worth mentioning that the teaching of engineering has had a revolutionary change in the last decade or so. The things that you (and others) have mentioned that engineers supposedly don't have - design/creativity/problem-solving-skills/imagination are now stressed from Day One of their first year and *must* continue throughout the four years.
This may be due to feedback from industry, which has had to employ the drones referred to elsewhere, but I guarantee that an engineering program today *cannot* be accredited without emphasizing those elements (and be able to prove that they do).

I have encountered many types in my 35 years as an engineer, the one thing the best have in common is creativity. I don't know that this something that can be acquired, I suspect you either have it or you don't.