What exactly is "Film Noir?"

[Steve]

I know I come off as a complete dullard asking this on this forum, but I am curious as to the exact meaning of this term. I keep hearing it, and after watching Turner Classic Movie Channel for a while I'm assuming it's those heavily-shadowed big city films, but in case I'm wrong, could someone in the know fill me in?

 

[Harry Lime]

You'll get plenty of answers on this one. I'll give you a small primer:

1) Film noir is considered by many a natural extension of the gansgter genre from the 1930's.

2) the term was launched by French academics to describe the mainly American period in cinema from the early 40's to roughly the later 1950's.

3) Film noir means literally "black film" and is used as a way to describe the dark contrasts, long shadows and overall dark and cynical mood of most of these films.

4) Some call a true noir only a film with "a rotten dame and an unhappy ending."

5) Academics contend this genre mirrored the dark and cynical nature of many men (and women) who fought and returned from WW2 changed by the brutality they had seen.

6) Some of the better examples of film noir are:
*) Out of the Past
*) Kiss of Death
*) The Killers
*) The Asphalt Jungle
*) The Killing
*) The Maltese Falcon
*) Detour (great B picture)
*) Force of Evil
*) This Gun for Hire
*) The Third Man
*) The Big Clock
*) The Naked City
*) Scarlet Street
*) Double Indemnity
*) The Postman always Rings Twice
*) Night and the City
*) Touch of Evil
*) Criss Cross
*) The Big Sleep
*) The Narrow Margin
*) The Phenix City Story
*) Detective story

There is a long list of others. A great, great genre of films and a big favorite of the gang here. Lotsa hats, trench coats, smokes, booze and dames.

Harry Lime

 

[Jack Scorpion]

After WWII, a film festival was held in France after a long period of time where French Film Critics had been blackwalled from seein' any new American cinema. The films they saw at the festival were: Double Indemnity, Maltese Falcon, Murder My sweet and 2 others I forget.

They immediately fell in love w/the new style of American film (something the American film critics did not do until decades later) and coined it Black Films for its very dark themes and lighting.

The truth is, German expressionist artists fled Nazi Germany... even Fritz Lang ended up becomin' a major noir director in Hollywood... Somehow these artists tended to end up directors in Hollywood and got free reign over the B movie (second film in a double feature) category.

Because of this, whereas American "A" films are almost all forgotten now because of the structures they were forced to adhere to, American "B" movies of that time was heavily controlled by the director. And these directors mostly bein' European runaway artists, some fancy stuff started to go down.

It isn't just noir. It is melodramas and women's films and every type of "B" movie of the time, but Film Noir has had the most lasting affect on Film Criticism and popular audiences. Film Noir can be characterized as:

-Dark and extreme lighting. Van Lewton, a major noir producer (RKO), once said that he liked his films as dark as possible so the audience can fill in what they can't see w/their imagination.

-Expressionist distortions of size and sound. Coffee mugs may look giant. Extras were often midgets or giants to create exaggerated impressions. These kind of things are direct oppositions to the Nazis, who wanted everything as realistic as possible.

-Psychoanalysis was all the rage and noir movies deal w/this idea often, usually mockingly, sometimes in agreement, but the presence is ALWAYS there. Attacks on Masculinity after WWII soldiers return home is a big'em, too.

-The writing of early 20th century hardboiled authors: Cain, Chandler, Hammet, whathaveyou. At the time, writers were often imported into Hollywood to do some of their own adaptations or even write original scripts.

-A huge stress on the average American bein' good. The noirs almost exclusively are a product of the 1940s, meaning wartime. Fear of the foreign is a huge theme. You can sum up Noir by calling it a reaction to WWII and the red scare.

-Existentialism, namely fatalism. Noir heroes are almost always trapped by fate and usually they want it to be so. Masochism is a huge theme in Film Noir.

It is a very rich genre that is, quite simply, an art of its time. Critics never agree on how to actually define the genre, but usually you can identify a flick within a couple scenes.

The most noirish film is another difficult question. Some say Double Indemnity. Some say Out of the Past. They both have the femme fatale and the doomed fate and the detective figure, but Double Indemnity is too much of an A film. Out of the Past is too big, open and well lit: almost Casablanca like. If you want to see one film that will tell you in an hour and a half exactly what film noir means, watch "Detour." It has all of the themes of Film Noir in an almost exaggerated fashion.

 

[K.D. Lightner]

Thanks, Steve, for asking the question. I wasn't certain what it was, either, and had not yet researched it on the net.

karol

 

[Big Joe]

Noir is French for black, giving us the concept of dark film.

http://www.crimeculture.com/Contents/Film%20Noir.html

http://www.crimeculture.com/Contents/RW-ThingCalledNoir.html

Big Joe

 

[MudInYerEye]

Check out Paul Schrader's seminal essay on the subject for a well-rounded and generally correct answer to your query.

 

[Harry Lime]

Check out Paul Schrader's seminal essay on the subject for a well-rounded and generally correct answer to your query.

Yes, there are different interpretations from different filmmakers, academics and buffs. But what is your take? That's more interesting to me than a referall.

Harry Lime

 

[K.D. Lightner]

Harry -- Would Sunset Boulevard be considered Film Noir? It certainly has a rotten dame and an unhappy ending!

karol

 

[Harry Lime]

Harry -- Would Sunset Boulevard be considered Film Noir? It certainly has a rotten dame and an unhappy ending!

karol

Yes, in my book (and many others) it would be. Corrosive to the core, an unhappy ending, dark and cynical. Classic Billy Wilder (same guy as "Double Indemmnity" and "Some Like It Hot." ) Good addition, Karol.

Harry Lime

 

[Clyde R.]

Good question, Steve. Some of us who have been Noir fans for years forget that everybody isn't. A book I like to recommend based on its cheap price and good overview of the genre is David N. Meyer's, "A Girl and A Gun: The Complete Guide to Film Noir on Video." It has a snyopsis of many Noirs from the classic period through the 1990s. The author has a list of Noirs to see first...he calls it the Canon. All the movies on the list are significant in the genre or simply very good. Here it is:
The Asphalt Jungle
Chinatown
The Conversation
Double Indemnity
Force of Evil
Gun Crazy
Kiss Me Deadly
La Femme Nikita
Laura
Le Samourai
M
The Maltese Falcon
The Man I love
Night and the City
Out of the Past
Touch of Evil
Vertigo
Enjoy your trip into the dark recesses of the soul, Hollywood style. Noirs are fun! My personal favorite is probably still 'Out of the Past' with Robert Mitchum.

 

[Clyde R.]

PS I think I have an extra copy of the book with a slightly damaged back cover. If anybody is interested, shoot me a PM and I'll send it along to you by cheapest snail mail to free up some space on the old bookshelf.

 

[MudInYerEye]

Yes, there are different interpretations from different filmmakers, academics and buffs. But what is your take? That's more interesting to me than a referall.

Harry Lime

To be honest I think Jack Scorpion hit the nail on the head and most of what I have to say is redundant and less articulate than his excellent explanantion.
Two cents:
There are a few basic factors in my determing what is Noir and what is not, and these are fairly strict guidelines. Many of the films listed in posts above, as well as other not mentioned but generally considered to be Noirs, are not Noirs. Many melodramas, gangster/crime pictures (WHITE HEAT, KEY LARGO), mysteries/detective stories (LAURA, THE MALTESE FALCON), and even love stories have been incorrectly labled as Film Noirs thought they did maintain certain similarities. That many films contain signifigant elements or stylings of Noir does not necessarially a Noir make.
In a nutshell the determining factors are:
Must have been made between circa 1938-1955. Certainly there were films before (M, I AM A FUGITIVE FROM A CHAIN GANG, SCARFACE) or after (the original CAPE FEAR, MEMENTO, TAXI DRIVER) that maintained Noirish characteristics but the true Noir is a distinct product of it's time and cannot be recaptured through homage or replica.
Noir films are black and white and feature a look borrowed from German Expressionism. Very heavy on the shadows, contrast, often cock-eyed angles and distorted imagery.
Most importantly, the true Noir features a protagonist falling through a proverbial trapdoor into a chaotic situation where the old comfortable World Above's rules no longer apply. Reality slapped in the face with a sock full of wet cement. Amnesia, frame-jobs and extortions are plot devices heavily relied upon. A very common occurence is an accidental crime (usually a homocide) commited by the protagonist, the web tightening closer around him as he tries ever more desperately to ensnare himself.
Great examples of Film Noir include:
NIGHTMARE ALLEY
DETOUR
THE WOMAN IN THE WINDOW
BLACK ANGEL
DARK PASSAGE
ODD MAN OUT
Great examples of Noir writing can be found in the work of James M. Cain, Paul Cain, Cornell Woolrich, Jim Thompson, and David Goodis.

 

[Harry Lime]

Excellent Mud, thank you. A great addition. I'm not sure I agree with the strictness of the timeline as it rules out a few excellent films that many would still consider noirs (Odds Against Tomorrow, Sweet Smell of Success) you really added a lot of great points. I love when we can pry from your extensive film knowledge.

Harry Lime

 

[jake_fink]

Anybody here love DOA like I love DOA?


PS: I luuuuve DOA.

Well, Mr. Bigelow, your urine sample was fine... but your stool tastes terrible.
:drum:

 

[airfrogusmc]

Don't forget Call Nothside 777

 

[Steve]

Thanks for the answers everyone. I never realized how much of an art it was.

 

[HaraldTheSwede]

Jack Scorpion wrote:
"After WWII, a film festival was held in France after a long period of time where French Film Critics had been blackwalled from seein' any new American cinema. The films they saw at the festival were: Double Indemnity, Maltese Falcon, Murder My sweet and 2 others I forget [Laura was one of these//HeinzHarald].

They immediately fell in love w/the new style of American film (something the American film critics did not do until decades later) and coined it Black Films for its very dark themes and lighting."

MudInYerEye wrote:
"...mysteries/detective stories (LAURA, THE MALTESE FALCON), and even love stories have been incorrectly labled as Film Noirs"

Which movies are and aren't film noir, as well as what film noir is, are questions that noirheads have been arguing probably since the dawn of the term (and plenty of books have been written on the subject). Those who coined the term named Laura and The Maltese Falcon as examples, yet in retrospect they both seem light compared to noirs that were released later on.

I guess what I'm saying is there is no right or wrong, you need to decide for yourself. But in order to avoid confusion when discussing movies it's best to say something like "it is often considered film noir", rather than "it's an example of film noir", for movies outside of the toughest definition of the term.

Great examples of Film Noir include:
NIGHTMARE ALLEY
DETOUR
THE WOMAN IN THE WINDOW
BLACK ANGEL
DARK PASSAGE
ODD MAN OUT

While they are all good noirs I would definitely substitute The Woman in the Window for Scarlet Street. I find it superior in most ways, including noirishness.

 

[Harry Lime]

Film Noir was a term coined by film academics to envelope a lot of things certain film makers were doing during a particular debatable period of time. Some of the things were self-consciously done, most (as in all creative endeavors) weren't. The academics simply saw something that they lumped together under a style. Some noirs have happy endings (Pickup on South Street), some have kinder dames (Laura), some are even in color (Leave Her to Heavan.) Nonetheless there is a certain heaviness and grittiness and nihilism that is present in most noir or noirish or noir-style movies.

That's why academic definitions don't interest me as facts or concrete science; they're simply a different individuals interpretation of subjective material. We've had a very good "amateur" discussion right here. Noirs forever.

Harry Lime

 

[jake_fink]

In the spirit of amateurism, I'm going to define what noir (as opposed to Film Noir) means to me.

Taking a line from Chinatown, "See, Mr. Gitts, most people never have to face the fact that, at the right time and the right place, they're capable of... anything!"

It's noir if the "anything" is something dark or unpleasant. Noir takes us to that time and that place, and makes us face it, or at least the fallout.

Now I can say that my favourite novel, one of the greatest ever written, is noir, though it's miles (and about 80 years) away from Film Noir!

:beer:

 

[MudInYerEye]

While they are all good noirs I would definitely substitute The Woman in the Window for Scarlet Street. I find it superior in most ways, including noirishness.

I too favor SCARLET STREET over THE WOMAN IN THE WINDOW. But as I consider it inferior to the French original I didn't include it for the sake of consolidating words.