What did your grandparents pack for personal protection in the Golden Era?

[Atticus Finch]

Hi Folks,

In my career, I have prosecuted literally thousands of cases---a large portion of them involving shootings and or armed robberies. I have never seen a case wherein an attacker was safely thwarted and arrested because the would-be victim possessed a handgun on his or her person. It may happen, but I've never seen it.

I have seen cases wherein store robberies degenerated into wild, dangerous gunfights because the store clerk kept a gun under the counter. I have also seen cases wherein an unarmed "armed attacker" was shot and killed by a frightened victim---exposing the victim to criminal prosecution and years of expensive civil litigation. And I have seen many--too many---cases wherein drunken fights between friends ended up in needless death because one or both participants were packing.

I understand that there is a certain romance to carrying a firearm. And I am not advocating that guns be outlawed. But I also know that fear can cloud reason and motivate one into doing things that a calm person would never contemplate. And if a gun is handy, that split-second, fear-driven decision may end up as an irrevocably lifechanging mistake for those on both ends of the barrel.

Just my thoughts.

Atticus

 

[Story]

Although I will admit I have modeled with a gun I won't admit in a forum as to whether I carry one, or what kind it is.

And that is wisest, Lady, since the best weapon is surprise.

 

[Story]

Hi Folks,
Just my thoughts.
Atticus

So you would strongly advocate training-training-training (physical, legal and, for want of a better term, emotional) for anyone before they decide to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights?

 

[Atticus Finch]

So you would strongly advocate training-training-training (physical, legal and, for want of a better term, emotional) for anyone before they decide to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights?

Hi Story,

Yes, I agree with both your points. (1) The 2nd Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear arms, and, (2) people should undergo comprehensive training and education and screening before being allowed to do so. But neither of those was intended to be the central idea of my post.

What I meant to convey was that, while carrying firearms is attractive to many people, my experience has shown me that it generally creates more problems than it solves.

Atticus

 

[Tommy Fedora]

As far as vintage guns go I have a .348 Winchester Model 71, and the shotgun with exposed hammers that my grandfather left me.
They say the .348 was discontinued because there were no longer any men who could shoot it ! lol I find it only kicks a little but its got lots of muzzle jump.

 

[Stinchcomb]

Hi Story,

Yes, I agree with both your points. (1) The 2nd Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear arms, and, (2) people should undergo comprehensive training and education and screening before being allowed to do so. But neither of those was intended to be the central idea of my post.

What I meant to convey was that, while carrying firearms is attractive to many people, my experience has shown me that it generally creates more problems than it solves.

Atticus

That's why I hope and pray I never ever have to use my gun in self defense. I've carried a handgun for 20 years and have never had a use for it, other than target shooting, and I hope it stays that way. But, in my opinion, I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. I had firearm and self defense training when I first got my handgun at the age of 21. I have competed in shooting competitions, and relies the huge responsibility in gun ownership. For some there maybe a certain amount of romance to having a firearm on their person, but not me, it is strictly a TOOL for self defense, nothing romantic or other about it. I’ve never shown the gun as a deterrent to someone, like I have heard of so many doing. I’ve never told someone I have a gun on me or near by in order to frighten or impress them.

 

[rongoms]

I totally agree. There is NOTHING romantic about carrying a firearm. It's a HUGE stressor in many ways, it comes with a responsibility that the general population doesn't understand.

There are lots of people who like to "accidentally" show their weapon and these are people i stay FAR away from. In Ron's Perfect World (tm) i'll never have to pull it out of the leather, but if i do, the only indication that i'm armed is when it's pointed at the bad guy when someone's LIFE is in danger.

Trying to refocus back to vintage topics, a plastic-fantastic hi-cap auto is not in line with what we're doing, but a surplus vintage 1911 was often a choice of officers Out West until the 1960s at least, and wheelguns seem to be the preferred option. any thoughts on this?
I'm looking for a nice clamshell duty holster for wear with my Police Pipe Band Uniform.

 

[The Wingnut]

There is definitely a mystique to firearms that far too many people get caught up in, both those favorable to them and those not. Too many people think a firearm or other defensive tool is an asset to 'scare off' the bad guys. Far from it...it's a last resort, something that you hope you never need, and if you do show or pull it, you'd better use it, and the situation had better warrant it.

...this is why I don't carry (never mind that most California citizens beyond the politically powerful or connected and acitve/retired law enforcement just about can't carry legally). I don't imagine myself in a situation that I'd ever need a firearm. If you (assuming Joe Average citizen) reach that point you're probably doing something common sense would have prevented you from doing in the first place. Some sitations I've been in, had I been carrying a firearm, I doubt I'd have been responsible with that privilege...I have the sense to recognize this and NOT attempt to get a permit.

The issue boils down to responsibility, rather than need. Plenty of people who wouldn't need to carry a firearm still carry, and they're responsible with it, and function in society as if they don't have a firearm at all. We should be concerned about those who aren't responsible enough to handle the privlege properly and have the potential to cause more harm than good.

A firearm isn't an accessory to your ensemble. It's a massive responsibiliy and liablity.

Edit: ...I've undergone comprehensive military firearms handling training and had to pass extensive background screening and psychological evaluation during the induction process into the Air Force, including for a classified secret clearance. Despite this, I still hold the opinion that I should not be saddled with the resposibility of, nor do I have the need for, carrying a firearm.

 

[Story]

What I meant to convey was that, while carrying firearms is attractive to many people, my experience has shown me that it generally creates more problems than it solves.Atticus

Duely noted, far too many get wrapped up in some Hollywoodesque misconceptions without grasping the true weight of what they want to carry.

There's other issues and considerations here that are worthy of discussion face to face. Perhaps we'll have the opportunity to unspin them over beers some day.

 

[Fatdutchman]

Hey, Rooster, glad to see you here!

I'm a dyed in the wool S&W man.

My absolute favorite gun is the brand new S&W model 22 .45acp at the top.

Other than the 681, I don't own ANY gun that isn't "vintage" or at least "classically styled".

If you want old-fashioned style holsters, you're pretty well stuck with El Paso Saddlery (as far as I have been able to find). Of course, if you have to be "stuck" with anyone, EP saddlery is a good one to be stuck with! I just ordered a 1920 "Tom Threepersons" holster for the big N frame. I have a crossdraw one for my .38 masterpiece.

 

[Feraud]

So you would strongly advocate training-training-training (physical, legal and, for want of a better term, emotional) for anyone before they decide to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights?

I do.
The repercussions of being involved in a firearm altercation go beyond the normal exercising of rights such as speech, assembly, or religion. Gunfights can be fatal and permanent.
Training should be mandatory and this is not "anti-gun" rhetoric but practical sense.

 

[Story]

I do.
The repercussions of being involved in a firearm altercation go beyond the normal exercising of rights such as speech, assembly, or religion. Gunfights can be fatal and permanent.
Training should be mandatory and this is not "anti-gun" rhetoric but practical sense.

Pardon me if you thought my post was otherwise, but we're in agreement. I was 'leading the witness' with Atticus ( ) to illuminate what are rightly considered prerequisites.

 

[Feraud]

Pardon me if you thought my post was otherwise, but we're in agreement. I was 'leading the witness' with Atticus ( ) to illuminate what are rightly considered prerequisites.

Doh! Got it now.

 

[MrBern]

Ok, I'll bite - why?

Because its more fun to get up close & use a knife...
Just slash the guys suspenders & run while he tries to hold up his pants.
That'll teach him not to mug a FedoraLounger.

 

[52Styleline]

Although I will admit I have modeled with a gun I won't admit in a forum as to whether I carry one, or what kind it is.

Smart Lady... Likewise

 

[The Wingnut]

Because its more fun to get up close & use a knife...
Just slash the guys suspenders & run while he tries to hold up his pants.
That'll teach him not to mug a FedoraLounger.

Oo. *twitch* Funny, but not funny. As someone who constantly has a blade on them, a knife is more of a tool than anything else, but it's also a very dangerous weapon in just about anyone's hands. To the same extent as a firearm, it's a last resort. If you pull it, you'd better need it, and you'd better use it. In a hand-to-hand fight, the knife weilder always wins unless they're up against someone with copious amounts of training and the element of surprise is completely lost. A knife's presence should never be known until it's sticking out of its target.

Never bring a knife to a gun fight. Sure-fire way to get dead, fast, and you'll be giving the other guy a perfectly legal reason to open fire. Never threaten with any weapon, for that matter.

Use it to open your mail, boxes, cut rope, scrape paint, mask stuff off for painting, anywhere you need a sharp edge, and keep it as sharp as possible. Don't make it the reason you got stomped six ways from Sunday, or God forbid, shot dead as a doornail.

I'm probably preaching to the choir.

 

[Story]

Because its more fun to get up close & use a knife...
Just slash the guys suspenders & run while he tries to hold up his pants.
That'll teach him not to mug a FedoraLounger.

That was the comedy stylings of Mr. Bern, folks - :eusa_clap
let's give him a hand and remember, tip the wait staff.

 

[Elaina]

Well, I live in Texas, and there are more women with guns then you would think. Plus, you can pull the listing of people that have a conceal and carry liscense, so it's not a huge secret.

So, it's not a terribly uncommon sight to see some little blue haired old lady plunk down a side arm while looking for her checkbook at the grocery counter.

 

[MrBern]

That was the comedy stylings of Mr. Bern, folks - :eusa_clap
let's give him a hand and remember, tip the wait staff.

I need rimshot!

Seriously, I knew a Finnish lady in NYC who carried a pistol when TimesSquare wasnt so MickeyMousified.
She carried a chromed pistol so if she had to pull it, they'd see it....

I'm not sure a pistol helps
A coupel years ago , some poor off duty cop got jumped by a gang in a fastfood joint. beat him senseless. Never had a chance to draw. Crawled out of there senseless w/ pistol in hand & held it on some bypasser thinking it was a perp.
Responding officers saw him & shot him twice not realizing he was on the job....

 

[carebear]

The actual peer-reviewed studies show that concealed handguns are used by law-abiding citizens in the prevention of crime hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of times a year. Note that a successful use includes the draw or presentation of the firearm without a shot being fired or anyone injured at all, just a crime prevented. You can check it out yourself.

http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdguse.html

The records of concealed carry, now legal in one form or another in 48 states in the union (for decades for some, but most since the mid-80s, two of which actually require no permit at all for law-abiding citizens - VT and AK) show criminal usage (which includes accidental or mistaken shootings) at less than 1% of permit holders. Similar to the numbers for police, for what it's worth. Training is not required nor uniform in all of those 48 states and yet the numbers are consistently low across the board. There's also no evidence that concealed carry permit holders act in any more careless or reckless way in terms of where they go or how they behave while armed. Again, folks who carry legally, knowing the legal and moral burden involved, statistically apparently tend to be more peaceable and cautious than those who live life never considering such things.

Even if all that weren't the case, you probably and hopefully would never need to use a legally carried weapon, heck, even most cops don't, but that's not the point. The point is that you can't predict trouble and if you ever do need to defend yourself with lethal force, you need that weapon badly and there's nothing else that will do the job.