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What are the makers that DO NOT 'skiv their leather or use glue'?

Canuck Panda

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,652
Is stitches per inch a thing? No is my personal opinion. On my home maker Singer machine, it's as simple as tweaking the stitch length dial, and the tension toggle at the top. I only hem my jeans and pants, so I just follow the user manual and set the stitch length in the middle and the tension in the middle. I did upgrade to a walking foot attachment, it's easier to sew on thicker fabric, like a mini robot doing half of the work for me. My Singer machine is about $200. It does what I need it to do. My dry cleaner charges me $60 for hemming, 4 pairs I've recouped my investment.

singer sewing machine.jpg


Most leather jacket makers will be using something a lot more powerful and at least ten times more expensive, like the Juki machines. And they have this slowing speed thing that allows them to sew at really slow speed with enough punching power and with great precision.
juki speed thing.jpg


Where as my home maker machine is mostly just my foot. I even resort to hand crank when the jeans seams are too thick for my Singer to power through.
IMG_6350.jpg


So why am I writing this in a skiving thread? Here it comes. Smaller stitches requires smaller needles, on top of the super expensive Juki machines. And in order to use smaller needles, the seam thickness can't be that thick. Hence the skiving part or however other methods are used for bulk reduction. I use a size 18 needle for my jeans hemming, and I've broke a few needles on those 6mm thick seams. If sewing with a smaller needle like size 16 or size 14, the thickness or bulk needs to be much less.
needle sizes.jpg


So does smaller stitch / skived / bulk reduction means "better"? That's up to individual opinion. To me, it's simply what can be done and what is chosen to be done to give a particular looking end product.

And about stitch cleanliness. Again, it's up to individual opinion. But from all my jackets, I can only see two types. One, the maker don't try to hide the beginning and the back locking stitch. The other, is the maker try to hide the beginning and back locking stitch.

Not hiding, with big needles and super thick leather:
aero.jpg


Not hiding but with tiny needles and thinned down leather:
rainbow country.jpg


The blue jacket most likely used size 19 needle and the red jacket most likely used a size 14 needle with significant difference in leather thickness, like 3.5oz vs 2.5oz.
19 size needle.jpg

So even both above jackets technique is the same so to speak, not hiding the locking stitch, the end product has a totally different feel, thick vs thin, big needle vs small needle. Is one better than the other? Again, this would be personal opinion.

Now some example of makers trying to hide their start and locking stitching, all using tiny needles, thinner leather, seam bulk reduction:
goodwear.jpg

high notch.jpg

himel.jpg

The darker the leather and stitching, it's easier to hide. Light color leather and thread not so much. Teacore leather is the worst under microscope photograph because even normal could look flawed with the contrast.

And one more thing... The uber expensive jackets can often be found at half the price or less on the used market... Patience has its own reward.
 

Damon141

Practically Family
Messages
928
Is stitches per inch a thing? No is my personal opinion. On my home maker Singer machine, it's as simple as tweaking the stitch length dial, and the tension toggle at the top. I only hem my jeans and pants, so I just follow the user manual and set the stitch length in the middle and the tension in the middle. I did upgrade to a walking foot attachment, it's easier to sew on thicker fabric, like a mini robot doing half of the work for me. My Singer machine is about $200. It does what I need it to do. My dry cleaner charges me $60 for hemming, 4 pairs I've recouped my investment.

View attachment 508752

Most leather jacket makers will be using something a lot more powerful and at least ten times more expensive, like the Juki machines. And they have this slowing speed thing that allows them to sew at really slow speed with enough punching power and with great precision.
View attachment 508753

Where as my home maker machine is mostly just my foot. I even resort to hand crank when the jeans seams are too thick for my Singer to power through.
View attachment 508754

So why am I writing this in a skiving thread? Here it comes. Smaller stitches requires smaller needles, on top of the super expensive Juki machines. And in order to use smaller needles, the seam thickness can't be that thick. Hence the skiving part or however other methods are used for bulk reduction. I use a size 18 needle for my jeans hemming, and I've broke a few needles on those 6mm thick seams. If sewing with a smaller needle like size 16 or size 14, the thickness or bulk needs to be much less.
View attachment 508755

So does smaller stitch / skived / bulk reduction means "better"? That's up to individual opinion. To me, it's simply what can be done and what is chosen to be done to give a particular looking end product.

And about stitch cleanliness. Again, it's up to individual opinion. But from all my jackets, I can only see two types. One, the maker don't try to hide the beginning and the back locking stitch. The other, is the maker try to hide the beginning and back locking stitch.

Not hiding, with big needles and super thick leather:
View attachment 508763

Not hiding but with tiny needles and thinned down leather:
View attachment 508764

The blue jacket most likely used size 19 needle and the red jacket most likely used a size 14 needle with significant difference in leather thickness, like 3.5oz vs 2.5oz.
View attachment 508765
So even both above jackets technique is the same so to speak, not hiding the locking stitch, the end product has a totally different feel, thick vs thin, big needle vs small needle. Is one better than the other? Again, this would be personal opinion.

Now some example of makers trying to hide their start and locking stitching, all using tiny needles, thinner leather, seam bulk reduction:
View attachment 508766
View attachment 508767
View attachment 508768
The darker the leather and stitching, it's easier to hide. Light color leather and thread not so much. Teacore leather is the worst under microscope photograph because even normal could look flawed with the contrast.

And one more thing... The uber expensive jackets can often be found at half the price or less on the used market... Patience has its own reward.
I'm very interested in sewing my own clothes, shirts are so baggy around the waist that I would like to give them a better profile.
Don't get me started on length, if you get a large or xl T-shirt they look like dresses if you're under 6 feet tall.
I'd like to be able to wear an xl shirt with it coming just past my belt. Only route is custom (expensive). Or trying my hand at sewing.

To keep it on track, I don't have a preference between Skived and unskived, super high stitch count or normal. As long as it's clean work seems like the important thing. I did start looking at Freewheelers and Fields pictures and it does look nice with the high stitch count but certainly not a dealbreaker. Pictures of your Langlitz show very clean work, I would say normal stitch spaces. They look great. The infamous Bill Kelso jackets seem to be very well made (only from some pictures) and they have average stitch size. Same with Thedi products, clean good tight stitches. Lost world jackets seem to be quite unique in the fact they use super high stitch counts and i haven't seen anything with flaws, but they also use their super heavy leather which can't be easy.
 

Canuck Panda

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,652
I'm very interested in sewing my own clothes, shirts are so baggy around the waist that I would like to give them a better profile.
Don't get me started on length, if you get a large or xl T-shirt they look like dresses if you're under 6 feet tall.
I'd like to be able to wear an xl shirt with it coming just past my belt. Only route is custom (expensive). Or trying my hand at sewing.

To keep it on track, I don't have a preference between Skived and unskived, super high stitch count or normal. As long as it's clean work seems like the important thing. I did start looking at Freewheelers and Fields pictures and it does look nice with the high stitch count but certainly not a dealbreaker. Pictures of your Langlitz show very clean work, I would say normal stitch spaces. They look great. The infamous Bill Kelso jackets seem to be very well made (only from some pictures) and they have average stitch size. Same with Thedi products, clean good tight stitches. Lost world jackets seem to be quite unique in the fact they use super high stitch counts and i haven't seen anything with flaws, but they also use their super heavy leather which can't be easy.
Yeah been down that road too with absolute fails. I tried to taper my shirts too. On the knitted shirts I've gotta get an overclock sewing machine. Just looking at the threading drove me nuts. I've accepted my defeat and now maintain a love and hate relationship with my dry cleaner/tailor.

There are so many different ways for bulk reduction at the seams and how to machine the panels together. Everyone does it a little differently. I wish there is a standard way of judging but there just isn't, not scientifically at least. As long as you are satisfied with the overall product feel in your hands it's all good. At the end of the day the different brands only really differ in prices, everything else is just an opinion.
 

Canuck Panda

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,652
HOLY COW.

Is this for real? That's absurd.
It is absurd. To be fair it is Canadian dollars and he used to charge me less than half that before Covid. Tapering pants which to me is a much bigger job is still 75. Some things change some don’t. I just take it that he doesnt want to hem my pants no more and I have been doing my own for a while now.
 

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