We need to talk tariffs

[Fonzie]

It is also the reason why France has pretty much the worst coffee in the world. (Although in recent years some people have used loopholes in the system to bring good coffee to France.)

I lived in France for a few years and I love the place, but I can confidently say that the coffee here in Australia is on a whole other league, a hundred times better.

 

[greenc]

@Fonzie I was in Montmartre last summer and found a tiny coffee roaster that was importing, roasting, and selling Ethiopian coffee, which pleased me to no end - I'm a big fan of fruity and florally so it was right up my alley.

The women who owned it explained that they were little by little trying to educate the neighbourhood and change people's view of coffee.

 

[greenc]

I'm a fan of wristwatches and the website Hodinkee.com, which generally speaking has quite interesting commentary on brands, new releases, auctions, etc.

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/swiss-watch-industry-shocked-by-trumps-31-tariff-threat

Yesterday, Wed 2nd, they published a breaking story about how the tariffs would affect the Swiss watch industry.

Almost as interesting as the article are the comments below it - quite a few seemingly very educated points of view. Worth looking at.

 

[Fonzie]

By the way, economists around the world are saying the same thing, this is not a partisan opinion from the left, this is factual. Both sides of the political spectrum agree with this outside of the US.
Check the news from the most relevant international economic magazines and they all agree.

The maths they used to come up with these tariffs make no sense, even the penguins in McDonald Islands are confused.

 

[AHP91]

This thread is political and should be shut down

 

[Fonzie]

This thread is political and should be shut down

I disagree. No one is attacking anyone and we’re just sharing information respectfully about facts that directly affect our common hobby and looking for solutions.

Is there any comment in particular that has offended you?

 

[Aloysius]

This thread is political and should be shut down

It’s really not at all. Whether someone believes in protectionism or free trade is besides the point, which is simply navigating the system we currently have.

The fact that it is being done on a whim and at random instead of through the legislative process is of course concerning in terms of simply buying, for instance, because shippers won’t know what the day’s policy is and so we will definitely have situations of things being incorrectly held or taxed or whatever.

We have vendors on this server as well as members who send things to each other. Working out the practicalities is relevant.

Let the record show I think the previous president’s own unilateral decisionmaking like trying to forgive loans or amend the constitution through executive orders are equally illegal.

 

[MrProper]

Found on threads:

Tariffs explained: Mexico makes a hammer for $2. It sells in the USA for $4. Costs $6 to make a hammer in the USA so no hammers are made here. USA put 200% tariffs on hammer imports so Mexican hammer costs $6 in the US. US can now compete and sells hammers for $8 to make a profit. Americans now have to find people (non-immigrants) to make hammers and hammers will cost $8 instead of $4.

 

[One Drop]

Yeah, agreed.

I don't understand why people complain about the rising prices of luxury clothes. What difference does it make if, I dunno, Aero increased their prices by a couple of hundred dollars? If you can afford a $1200 leather jacket, you should just as easily be able to buy a $1400 leather jacket.

Not in my experience. For some people it's an impulse buy, for others they may save up for months. There is also the issue of what competitors charge for similar product.

 

[One Drop]

It’s important to view the tariffs in the context of their stated purpose - to encourage other countries to remove their tariffs on US produced goods

Clearly everyone in the US is dreading the impact on our wallets; I read this morning the annual cost of living for the average household is forecast to jump $1-2k; a painful hit, which will undoubtedly change what people spend their money on

Now Imagine how much more worried countries that rely on the US marketplace are right now - every government undoubtedly has manufactures and exporters screaming at them to do whatever it takes to negotiate and end to the tariffs and whatever you think of the current US administration; Trump does know a thing or two about negotiating.

My hunch is the tariffs will be gone in under six months

I think it's more important to view the tariffs in the context of their intended purpose, which IMO is very different from the stated ones, but to elaborate would be to stray into purely political theorising, so I'll abstain from naming those objectives.

I also think the negotiation skills that can be used successfully in the commercial Real Estate industry may not be ideally suited to foreign and domestic economic policy.

 

[One Drop]

I hear this a lot except it's simply not true. The reason for the tariffs is because the president likes tariffs. This is not a new thing–it is his only consistent political belief, going back to the 80s when he was still a Democrat (so this isn't even a partisan thing) and he quite explicitly talked at the time about how if he ever became president he would tax everything coming into the country.)

It's not old imperial Mercantalism, nor is it a negotiating tactic to bring about free trade. The president simply likes tariffs and due to an unconstitutional use of legislation, he is levying them unilaterally when the power of the purse is explicitly enumerated as Congressional in Article I of the Constitution. I don't want to doxx myself but I know plenty of people in the administration including people quite close to the president. This is what he believes.

Again, I am not being partisan or political here, merely accurate.

If you are going off of the "foreign tariffs list" presented at the WH briefing, that is not in fact a list of foreign tariffs… it is a ChatGPT generated equation that has nothing to do with tariff rates.

Well stated, I agree this is most probably the most accurate description of the situation. I would add, speculatively, that he also sees it as a way to increase and maintain personal political power, as it gives his the power to grant exceptions or subsidies to certain corporation or economic sectors, and to favour those that explicit support him, for example. It is difficult to argue against this as there is already ample evidence he is using this 'negotiating tactic' against certain individuals and corporations.

 

[One Drop]

The irony is that in France they call it vanilla from Madagascar.
I guess if they called it French vanilla as well it would be too chauvinistic even for them…

Madagascar is an independent island state since 1960, and no longer a part of or territory of France.

 

[RDS]

All I'm saying is that ball is rolling now and we'll just have to see how far it goes if it's allowed to keep rolling.

The ball is certainly rolling and it’s very quickly picking up a lot of speed and momentum. The trouble is it’s all downhill which makes it doubly hard to try to stop or even slow down. In the meantime a very wide trail of damage is being left in its wake.
And all the while those who started the ball rolling in the first place are left standing at the top of the hill unscathed.

 

[Monitor]

Im not 100% sure about that. I think there is a margin still in that price range where maybe it’s not a matter of can, it’s the “easily” part. It’s more like ehh that extra 200-300 someone could afford but it’s like ugh should I? What are my other bills currently? Is it better spent going somewhere else? Should I save it? It’s tax season here in the US like for example do I owe on my taxes should it go to that? Where the Lambo one yeah sure. If you can afford a 400,000 car when you’re talking that much an extra 20-30 hell 100,000. If you’re that rich that extra is like 20 bucks to me. I do think in the thousands a few hundred could be the difference. Because at this level maybe they decide to just get a second hand jacket then or find another maker for a little less. There’s more options in this tier. Where there’s not as many 500,000 dollar cars and again at that price you’re probably set for life and your children’s life. Someone might say that Aero is 1,400 but there’s a second hand vanson for 400 that’s similar and a 350 dollar Schott I wanted. Maybe they just do that instead ya know?

Dan, as a leather jacket enthusiast, I do agree with you but from a perspective of a leather jacket enjoyer, I cannot.

Single garment equivalent to a $400,000 Lambo actually is $1500 Aero! Well, if not $1500 Aero then certainly a $5K Brioni or a $3700 RMC J-24, which is what these jackets cost right now and holy f***ing s**t I'm only finding this out right now this very moment. . .

But yeah, prices of leather jackets don't really get much higher than that and even among the top designer stuff, you'll find only a handful of mega-limited pieces that sell for (much) more.

$1500 is a lot for a leather jacket. It is more than that. Expensive leather jacket is literally an epitome of an unwarranted, illogical expense. Literally as in literally! Several authors of books about economics primarily use a leather jacket as an example of a bad purchase.

To us to whom a good leather jacket means so much, the additional $200 upcharge certainly affects the budget we absolutely had to have set apart specifically for this one investment that is based purely on emotion, it is an expense we have to plan & account on, which actually makes it feasible - But - If you had absolutely no interest in this hobby, even with a need for a leather jackets & with literally countless options for under $100; Would you ever even consider a $1200 leather jacket in the first place?

 

[Monitor]

Not in my experience. For some people it's an impulse buy, for others they may save up for months. There is also the issue of what competitors charge for similar product.

What I replied to Dan, earlier, before seeing your post - The average price for a leather jacket in basically all fast-fashion stores, online or otherwise, is around $80 and fast-fashion stores are so omni-present that the general consumer is utterly oblivious of any sort of alternative.

You quite literally have to search long and deep to find a $1500 leather jacket and if you had gotten this far into the matter, it no longer can be an impulse buy but a calculated choice, regardless of what your income is.

If you aren't rich, if you don't have a buffer for justifying an expense of this magnitude, paying either a $1200 or $1500 for a leather jacket is equally existence threatening.