We Deserve Better--Or Do We?

[Foxer55]

sheeplady,

At the worst, it's glorifying rape culture, non-consensual sexual activity, and possibly domestic violence (stranger in the bed... this a hickie or a bruise.) Totally not cool to wake up not knowing if somebody left you a hickie, hit you, or you ran into a door... wondering what else happened. And it's not OK to be someone who gives somebody a hickie or have any kind of sexual relationship with someone while they are too drunk to consent, yet alone too drunk to remember it the next day. Rape culture is promoting that this kind of thing doesn't matter.

Yeah, and this generation will tell you we lived in mysoginist times with lyrics like this:

Blue moon

You saw me standing alone
Without a dream in my heart
Without a love of my own

You knew just what I was there for
You heard me saying a prayer for
Someone I really could care for

And then there suddenly appeared before me
The only one my arms will hold
I heard somebody whisper please adore me
And when I looked to the moon it turned to gold

 

[vitanola]

Oh, yes.

to wit:

"She Wouldnt do what I asked her to
now at first I wasn't sore
She wouldn't do what I asked her to
so I asked her just once more
She wouldn't let me in,
I felt just like a fool,
she wouldn't even kiss me in the vestibule
She wouldn't do what I asked her to,
So I socked her in the jaw!

 

[R.G. White]

My pride, my ego, my needs, and my selfish ways
Caused a good strong woman like you to walk out my life
Now I never, never get to clean up the mess I made, ohh…
And it haunts me every time I close my eyes

It all just sounds like oooooh…
Mmm, too young, too dumb to realize
That I should have bought you flowers
And held your hand
Should have gave you all my hours
When I had the chance
Take you to every party
'Cause all you wanted to do was dance
Now my baby's dancing
But she's dancing with another man

(Bruno Mars 2012)

You can bend this whole argument either way.

 

[Edward]

“Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers.”

Socrates.

Hmn.

The notion that you're stuck with it is absurd. Absolutely everything you do (except eating and drinking) is a choice - though of course what you eat and drink is a choice.

Choose to resist!

Precisely. Hell, I've got a TV and I don't watch any of the stuff people howl about. In today's world it's shockingly easy to be blissfully ignorant of this nonsense. Until last week I thought a Kardashian was one of those ugly buggers on Star Trek.

You can't change the system, you can't improve the system. The Invisible Hand has its middle finger pointed straight at you. The only alternative is to completely reject it, and modern society doesn't have the spine for that.

The only question is how and with what we replace capitalism. The world's problems are obvious.... how we get the winners to care about those who lose is a whole nother ballgame.

I'm a teenager, so I'll put my two cents it. First off, I agree with you when it comes to television. It's complete crap.
But music is a different story.
I feel like you're clumping all modern music into something it's not. There is a lot of good stuff out there, it's just that unfortunately none, or most, of it is not played on the radio. Music has always been diverse and it still is. I listen to some of the stuff my friends listen to... bands I've never heard of... and most of it is really good stuff. It certainly isn't what I like to listen to personally, but it's still good. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I bet if you turned on the radio thirty years ago there was a lot of worthless junk being played too. Maybe the worthless junk today is more widespread, and the good stuff not as known as it should be, but that does not mean there isn't any good music being played in our modern era.

Actually I think there is a lot more music choice now, all thanks to the internet and social media. All you have to do is look for it. It's there. In the 60's and 70's you were dependent on what radio stations played for music exposure. If you wanted new music you had to buy it to listen to it first. Now thanks to Youtube and internet radio stations you can be exposed to all sorts of genres, and every subgenre you can think of.

Absolutely. The truth is that at any one time, 99% of all music is utter drivel. Folks just get old and get too lazy or don't have the time to go looking for the good stuff anymore, while memory plays tricks on people. That's all it is. The picture is distorted nowadays as the entertainment industry has become so established to churn out product, and with modern recording industries, downloading, home movie sales, TV repeats... we don't forget the dross so quickly.

I think this is exactly R.G. White's point. People using the guise of Religion and hiding behind the interpretation of words to foster homophobic (or racist, etc.) behavior.

The problem isn't the religion, it's the people.

A very astute point - and one he makes very well.

That is precisely what I meant. I have absolutely nothing against people who are religious; though I disagree with organized religion, I know that there are many good people out there both who believe in God and don't. I'd never form the opinion that every person in a group has the same mindset. I don't think that is right in the least bit.

Frankly, I wouldn't hold it against you if you did. What I've seen some of my gay friends suffer at the hands of some of my co-religionists... there are times I struggle to look them in the eye over that. Good for you for rising above.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

Until last week I thought a Kardashian was one of those ugly buggers on Star Trek.

If she isn't then she should.

[video=youtube;rdGxOd0D24Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdGxOd0D24Q[/video]

 

[sheeplady]

You can bend this whole argument either way.

The point of my argument is not that the lyrics I posted are any worse (or better) than other lyrics.

Bad messages have always been (and sadly, are likely to always be) part of the culture we're in. Time period doesn't matter to me: if it's sexist, it's sexist. If it's promoting rape culture, it's promoting rape culture. If it's racist, it's racist. The media that is being produced today didn't develop in a vacuum. Music reflects culture. Our culture didn't just decide one day "oh, let's be racist! and put it in our music!"

I do think, however, it's time we put an end lapping this crud up, excusing it as "artistic," and get down to the dirty work of fixing things.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

I Gave Her That (1919)

She's a mighty pretty sight
And her eyes are black as night
But the left is blacker than the right
I gave her that!

 

[sheeplady]

I Gave Her That (1919)

She's a mighty pretty sight
And her eyes are black as night
But the left is blacker than the right
I gave her that!

I would assume, looking at the lyrics of that song, it was a social critique on domestic violence and abandonment. I don't have any problems with songs that talk about such things for the purpose of those kinds of critiques. For example, "hell is for children" isn't really making light of child abuse. I think that music like "hell is for children" can actually open up dialog between parents and children about things like child abuse: what it is, why people do it, what to do if you think your friends are getting abused.

 

[R.G. White]

The point of my argument is not that the lyrics I posted are any worse (or better) than other lyrics.

Bad messages have always been (and sadly, are likely to always be) part of the culture we're in. Time period doesn't matter to me: if it's sexist, it's sexist. If it's promoting rape culture, it's promoting rape culture. If it's racist, it's racist. The media that is being produced today didn't develop in a vacuum. Music reflects culture. Our culture didn't just decide one day "oh, let's be racist! and put it in our music!"

I do think, however, it's time we put an end lapping this crud up, excusing it as "artistic," and get down to the dirty work of fixing things.

Yes, I agree with you.

 

[vitanola]

I would assume, looking at the lyrics of that song, it was a social critique on domestic violence and abandonment. I don't have any problems with songs that talk about such things for the purpose of those kinds of critiques. For example, "hell is for children" isn't really making light of child abuse. I think that music like "hell is for children" can actually open up dialog between parents and children about things like child abuse: what it is, why people do it, what to do if you think your friends are getting abused.

One word: Context.

"I Gave her that!" was a minor hit, interpolated into the Al Jolson Musical Comedy "Sinbad" as an answer to "I'll Say She Does!"

"Did you see that pretty dress
Say, I gave her that
And that look of happiness
Say, I gave her that

You should see her flat
And her great big picture hat
You'll declare, "It's a bear"
And, and I gave her that

And did you see her great big motor car
Say, I gave her that
I love her so much, I hardly know
Where I'm at

Oh, she's a mighty pretty sight
And her eyes are black as night
But the left is blacker than the right
Wooh, I gave her that"

Yes, a commentary, just as was "She Wouldn't Do What I Asked Her To" Frankly the joke (and yes, a joke it was) was entirely in the outrageousness of the suggestion
that the character on stage was really capable of such acts. Sort of like May Irwin's 1895 hit "The Bullly" where she adopts the swagger of a bully steveodore, threatening to slash the throat of a rival.

 

[R.G. White]

The look on his face was priceless, but I don't think my point got through to him that what he listens to (and subjects me to ) sounds just as ridiculous.

 

[Hemingway Jones]

We're pretty opened minded, but please execize good taste with a universal audience in mind.

And while we're at it, we may as well end this one on a low note.