We Deserve Better--Or Do We?

[Futwick]

The problem is that racist and sexist lyrics in rap are now mainstream and sell millions of records. Yet the people who listen to this crap are all offended by turn of the century coon songs. It doesn't make any sense. And, sure, there was a lot of crap music when I was a teen but take it from those of us who were teens in the 60s and 70s, there was a LOT more choice then than now. It's shocking to us how little choice there is. Is it all bad? No, of course not. I love groups like the Carolina Chocolate Drops, Hot Club of Detroit, Old Crow Medicine Show. I heard some Alanis Morrisette stuff the other day that was surprisingly good. Bob Dylan is still recording and still sounds great all raspy-voiced and bluesy. But you kids today just don't understand how much has been taken away from you. But, you're here, and that's a good start. Glad to meet you.

 

[Gingerella72]

Actually I think there is a lot more music choice now, all thanks to the internet and social media. All you have to do is look for it. It's there. In the 60's and 70's you were dependent on what radio stations played for music exposure. If you wanted new music you had to buy it to listen to it first. Now thanks to Youtube and internet radio stations you can be exposed to all sorts of genres, and every subgenre you can think of.

I'd be careful about lumping all modern music into the crap category. There is a lot of good stuff out there, it just requires going beyond whatever the top 40 list is.

However, trying to micromanage what your children listen to will just backfire in the end. They are not you. You don't have to like what they like. They do have the right to have their own opinions and like what they like. And just because you don't personally like it, doesn't automatically make it crap. Of those bands you mentioned liking in the 70's.....I don't personally like them and would never voluntarily choose to listen to them. Do I call it crap? No. I just don't like it.

The same goes for TV. For all the people you are complaining about watching reality shows, there are just as many NOT watching them. And who cares if they do watch them? If they like it, it's their choice. It doesn't effect you in anyway whatsoever because you have the ability and choice to not watch it. That's the beauty of having lots of choices, there is usually something out there for everyone. And there are a lot of good programs out there that aren't "reality TV". Find what you like, discard what you don't, and stop worrying about what other people do. Not everyone automatically succumbs to the lowest denominator of entertainment. Seriously, you need to stop complaining about what is out of your control and focus on what is in your control - what is seen and heard in your own household.

 

[Futwick]

Futwick,



The laugh may be at our expense. We are becoming dinosuars. As technology increases at ever blinding speed many of the cultural and social standards we were part of will disappear completely. Its being driven by money more than intellectual pursuit and it is outpacing law and social acceptance. There's a brave new world coming and it ain't gonna be pleasant. At least not to us.

Well, it's kind of funny. I read the other day about a DJ who got fired from his gig for telling his listening audience that the local reservoir was filled dihydrogen monoxide. He told them that it was fatal if inhaled, is found in the cores of all nuclear reactors, is a major cause of corrosion, is even used to torture people. He caused such a panic among his listeners that his station fired him.

 

[sheeplady]

The problem is that racist and sexist lyrics in rap are now mainstream and sell millions of records. Yet the people who listen to this crap are all offended by turn of the century coon songs. It doesn't make any sense.

Racist and sexist lyrics aren't limited to rap. I'm less worried about a piece of music having the "b-word" or the "c-word" or the "n-word"* than I am about the message it's sending . The messages I have a problem with aren't limited to rap- I've seen them in country, rap, pop, etc. Pop is probably the worst offender, because the messages are there but not as in your face but van be far more damaging. Easily recognizable violent and sexist lyrics are easy to deal with.

Quite frankly, if something is sexist or racist it's just as offensive if it's old as if it's new to me. I don't give a pass to old media if it's racist or sexist. People back then knew it was wrong- you can ask any number of people here who can provide examples of family members and friends who fought back against that stuff long before any of us were born. Racism or sexism isn't less offensive or more understandable or less hurtful because it's in old media.

*realizing that the use of the n-word in music by Black and African American artists is a debate I don't have a say in (nor should I)

 

[LizzieMaine]

I'm far more worried about people actually being denied basic opportunities because of their race, sex, social class, or income -- and if you don't think that happens anymore, you aren't paying close enough attention. Pop culture is merely a reflection of society. If modern pop culture is full of vicious, stupid stereotyping than maybe modern society hasn't come as far as it likes to pretend that it has.

If any kid used the "n word" within hearing of my grandmother, she'd crack them so hard across their faces their teeth would rattle. It's about time more people followed her example and less of this mealy-mouthed "well, Those People get to say it, it's not fairrrrrrrrrrr" garbage.

 

[AmateisGal]

I'm a teenager, so I'll put my two cents it. First off, I agree with you when it comes to television. It's complete crap.
But music is a different story.
I feel like you're clumping all modern music into something it's not. There is a lot of good stuff out there, it's just that unfortunately none, or most, of it is not played on the radio. Music has always been diverse and it still is. I listen to some of the stuff my friends listen to... bands I've never heard of... and most of it is really good stuff. It certainly isn't what I like to listen to personally, but it's still good. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I bet if you turned on the radio thirty years ago there was a lot of worthless junk being played too. Maybe the worthless junk today is more widespread, and the good stuff not as known as it should be, but that does not mean there isn't any good music being played in our modern era.

I agree with you. There is a seemingly endless variety of music out there right now thanks to the internet and the ability to share, and it's not all bad. I enjoy a good pop song or alternative rock or indie band song just as much as I enjoy Sinatra or Glenn Miller, etc.

 

[R.G. White]

I'm far more worried about people actually being denied basic opportunities because of their race, sex, social class, or income -- and if you don't think that happens anymore, you aren't paying close enough attention. Pop culture is merely a reflection of society. If modern pop culture is full of vicious, stupid stereotyping than maybe modern society hasn't come as far as it likes to pretend that it has.

Or a variety of other reasons.

I'm gay and in the past six months I've gotten called a "f" at work (management made a big deal out of it at first, but of course nothing was done) and have had to deal with a man at a religious banquet at another job preaching that I'll die a lonely old man, and then continue to be lonely in hell. As far as I'm concerned "religion" just give homophobes an excuse to be disgusted by my "kind," but that's an entirely different conversation.

If I had called the man at work the "N" word or any other type of derogatory remark all hell would have broken loose. And do you think for one minute if that man was from any other type of group, talking badly about any other category of humans there wouldn't have been some sort of uproar? People don't change; the majority of the world follows whatever guidelines are set for us by the rest of society; whatever gives us an acceptable excuse to hate, we jump on it. Many people lack character; they did 100 years ago and they still do. Our modern media just reflects that. I can only be thankful that I live in a time of change and at least one more slice of bigotry is being pushed into the shadows along with everyone who ascribes to it.
It's always up to the individual to make their own choices; unfortunately over-parenting, or simply not enough parenting, can create people who are simple followers one way or another. And that is not a good thing. But we have the choice, or should, to watch and listen what we choose to. I did not grow up in a censored or healthy environment at, and all that goes to show is that in the end we create who we are.

 

[sheeplady]

Or having integrated proms:
http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/30/living/wilcox-integrated-prom/index.html?sr=sharebar_facebook

 

[Futwick]

I'm bowing out of this as I'm feeling like my ol' grandpa. "You damn kids and yer music! You're drivin' me crazy!" I used to work for him at his gas station and that's what I had to hear all day. No matter how bad you had it, he had worse when he was your age. If you notice something nice, he never had that when he was a kid. "Wow, look at the stars, grandpa! Aren't they bright?"

"Stars?! You're supposed to be workin' not lookin' at stars! I didn't have no stars to look at when I your age, ya damn kid! I had to throw old beer cans in the air and shine a flashlight on 'em until they hit the ground--that was all the time I got to enjoy lookin' at sparkly crap in the sky! The rest of the time I was workin'! You kids and your damn stars! You're drivin' me crazy!!"

Or he'd want me carry in a load of oil to the back of the shop at the end of the day and I'd tell him my feet are hurting after 8 hours. "Feet? Whaddaya talkin' about feet??!! I didn't have no feet when I was your age. I had to walk around on my damn hands and I was grateful! You think you got it so tough?? Try carryin' a load of motor oil walkin' on your hands! I didn't get my first pair o' feet until I was 30! It was another five years before I had shoes fer 'em! You kids and your damn feet! You're drivin' me crazy!"

He was a fount of wisdom on any topic. Cars: "We didn't have no damn cars when I was kid! [That was actually true] We rode around on two bar-bells strapped together with the same belt my old man used to beat me with when he caught not doin' any work! You kids and your plush car seats. If I wanted a plush seat, I had to kill a German shepard! If I wanted to go ridin' with my girlfriend, I had to kill TWO German shepards. And I had to strangle 'em with my bare hands cuz we didn't have no guns like you buncha sissies today! I'd be bleedin' and chewed-up by the time I was ready to pick up my date! And she was grateful! Not like these girls today who won't be seen with ya unless you're drivin' a damn Corvette! She showed me off to her girlfriends while I was bleedin' with skin and organs trailin' offa me! You kids and damn cars! You're drivin' me crazy!"

The disappearance of the honeybee: "We didn't have no bees when I was your age! After we plowed the fields ourselves because there were no horses in those days either, mom would send us out into the fields to pollinate the crops our damn selves!! We didn't get no dinner until every plant was pollinated if took all year. We'd be out there after dark, starvin', dehydrated, so we could get them damn crops pollinated because we had to walk 10 to school the next mornin' cuz my old man would tan my britches if I missed any school! No bees at all, we had to sting our own damn selves and make our own honey. We'd gather nectar in our stomachs, bring it back to the house and throw it all up, eat it and throw it up again until it turned into honey. It was puke-honey and we ate it and we liked it! We were grateful--not like you, ya spoiled little turd! You kids and your damn bees! You're drivin' me crazy!"

Einstein's Special Theory of Relativity: "We didn't have no relativity when I was punk kid like you! If we wanted time-dilation, we had to fire ourselves from a catapult across three counties! The speed o' light! I had it up to here with the speed o' light! We didn't have no light when I was a kid! Everything was pitch-black and you had to learn where everything was by bumpin' into it! I had ten stubbed toes and I woulda had more but my parents couldn't afford no more toes! You kids and your damned E=mc2! You're drivin' me crazy!"

And so on and so forth.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

^^^^
[video=youtube;anNR5YU98OQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anNR5YU98OQ[/video]

 

[esteban68]

Futwick that brings to mind the Monty python three Yorkshire men sketch

 

[PrettySquareGal]

I'm bowing out of this as I'm feeling like my ol' grandpa.

Grandpas rock! I read through this thread and agree with your sentiments and complaints.

 

[Feraud]

We have what we have for one reason: it makes money, and the Boys From Marketing would televise fights to the death between rabid grandmothers if they thought there was money to be made from it. But the thing is, no matter what they do, *we don't have to take it.*

Today the leeches in marketing don't need to be creative. Just sell 'em how stupid they are.

 

[Gin&Tonics]

As far as I'm concerned "religion" just give homophobes an excuse to be disgusted by my "kind," but that's an entirely different conversation.

I take exception to your remark, though sadly I am not surprised by it. As for my views on homosexuality itself, those are, as you said, for a different conversation, should you wish to know them (I suspect you don't, which is fine). But I tell you this:

I am what you would likely refer to as a "religious person". By that I mean that I believe that Jesus is the Son of God and that the Bible is God's inerrant word. Based on that belief I would be the first person to stand up to those appalling, hateful bigots at your work and tell them off for their disgusting behavior, not to mention report it as harassment and be a witness for you.

A couple of things to remember: not everyone who says they follow Jesus actually does. He said that himself. Secondly, I happen to take Him at His word and believe that we should speak the truth in love and in humility consider others before ourselves. If Jesus said of the adultress, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone," then who am I to treat anyone any differently? I'm just a sinner saved by grace.

I hope you'll reconsider lumping every "religious person" into the same boat, just as everyone else should avoid assuming that all homosexual people are a particular way.

 

[Feraud]

A couple of things to remember: not everyone who says they follow Jesus actually does. He said that himself.

I think this is exactly R.G. White's point. People using the guise of Religion and hiding behind the interpretation of words to foster homophobic (or racist, etc.) behavior.

The problem isn't the religion, it's the people.

 

[LizzieMaine]

The Pharisees were very religious too. "Whitewashed tombs, beautiful from the outside, but inside filled with dead men's bones and all uncleanness." Sounds like you've got a few of them in your office.

 

[Foxer55]

Futwick,

I'm bowing out of this as I'm feeling like my ol' grandpa. "You damn kids and yer music! You're drivin' me crazy!" I used to work for him at his gas station and that's what I had to hear all day. No matter how bad you had it, he had worse when he was your age. If you notice something nice, he never had that when he was a kid. "Wow, look at the stars, grandpa! Aren't they bright?"

"Stars?! You're supposed to be workin' not lookin' at stars! I didn't have no stars to look at when I your age, ya damn kid! I had to throw old beer cans in the air and shine a flashlight on 'em until they hit the ground--that was all the time I got to enjoy lookin' at sparkly crap in the sky! The rest of the time I was workin'! You kids and your damn stars! You're drivin' me crazy!!"

Or he'd want me carry in a load of oil to the back of the shop at the end of the day and I'd tell him my feet are hurting after 8 hours. "Feet? Whaddaya talkin' about feet??!! I didn't have no feet when I was your age. I had to walk around on my damn hands and I was grateful! You think you got it so tough?? Try carryin' a load of motor oil walkin' on your hands! I didn't get my first pair o' feet until I was 30! It was another five years before I had shoes fer 'em! You kids and your damn feet! You're drivin' me crazy!"

He was a fount of wisdom on any topic. Cars: "We didn't have no damn cars when I was kid! [That was actually true] We rode around on two bar-bells strapped together with the same belt my old man used to beat me with when he caught not doin' any work! You kids and your plush car seats. If I wanted a plush seat, I had to kill a German shepard! If I wanted to go ridin' with my girlfriend, I had to kill TWO German shepards. And I had to strangle 'em with my bare hands cuz we didn't have no guns like you buncha sissies today! I'd be bleedin' and chewed-up by the time I was ready to pick up my date! And she was grateful! Not like these girls today who won't be seen with ya unless you're drivin' a damn Corvette! She showed me off to her girlfriends while I was bleedin' with skin and organs trailin' offa me! You kids and damn cars! You're drivin' me crazy!"

The disappearance of the honeybee: "We didn't have no bees when I was your age! After we plowed the fields ourselves because there were no horses in those days either, mom would send us out into the fields to pollinate the crops our damn selves!! We didn't get no dinner until every plant was pollinated if took all year. We'd be out there after dark, starvin', dehydrated, so we could get them damn crops pollinated because we had to walk 10 to school the next mornin' cuz my old man would tan my britches if I missed any school! No bees at all, we had to sting our own damn selves and make our own honey. We'd gather nectar in our stomachs, bring it back to the house and throw it all up, eat it and throw it up again until it turned into honey. It was puke-honey and we ate it and we liked it! We were grateful--not like you, ya spoiled little turd! You kids and your damn bees! You're drivin' me crazy!"

Einstein's Special Theory of Relativity: "We didn't have no relativity when I was punk kid like you! If we wanted time-dilation, we had to fire ourselves from a catapult across three counties! The speed o' light! I had it up to here with the speed o' light! We didn't have no light when I was a kid! Everything was pitch-black and you had to learn where everything was by bumpin' into it! I had ten stubbed toes and I woulda had more but my parents couldn't afford no more toes! You kids and your damned E=mc2! You're drivin' me crazy!"

And so on and so forth.

lol All I can say is you musta had a helluva a lot of fun putting that together. Its priceless!

 

[Fletch]

I love you.

Welcome to the club, bub. This woman is an undiscovered national treasure and could probably be the next Joe Bageant if she cared to quit being undiscovered.

 

[sheeplady]

This is the kind of pop lyrics I have a problem with:

"There's a stranger in my bed,
There's a pounding in my head
Glitter all over the room
Pink flamingos in the pool
I smell like a minibar
DJ's passed out in the yard
Barbie's on the barbeque
This a hickie or a bruise
...
Pictures of last night
Ended up online
I'm screwed
Oh well
It's a blacked out blur
But I'm pretty sure it ruled
Damn
...
This Friday night
Do it all again"


At the best, it's promoting drunkenness to the point of memory loss, repeatedly (It's a blacked out blur... do it all again).

At the worst, it's glorifying rape culture, non-consensual sexual activity, and possibly domestic violence (stranger in the bed... this a hickie or a bruise.) Totally not cool to wake up not knowing if somebody left you a hickie, hit you, or you ran into a door... wondering what else happened. And it's not OK to be someone who gives somebody a hickie or have any kind of sexual relationship with someone while they are too drunk to consent, yet alone too drunk to remember it the next day. Rape culture is promoting that this kind of thing doesn't matter.

All wrapped up in a nice little pop tune.

 

[R.G. White]

I think this is exactly R.G. White's point. People using the guise of Religion and hiding behind the interpretation of words to foster homophobic (or racist, etc.) behavior.

The problem isn't the religion, it's the people.

That is precisely what I meant. I have absolutely nothing against people who are religious; though I disagree with organized religion, I know that there are many good people out there both who believe in God and don't. I'd never form the opinion that every person in a group has the same mindset. I don't think that is right in the least bit.