WARNING! Controversial poll ahead,...

[Caledonia]

"sigh." Adam & Eve didn't take credit for writing the book of Genesis.

Regarding Voltaire's quote, I've always wondered if God didn't exist would the God concept exist? Can we logically assume people would invent a god if there were none? Yes, people have invented lots of gods and spiritual entities, but would such concepts even develop in the first place if there was nothing in men's minds to kindle them? I wonder if it could be reasonably argued that man is capable of inventing a metaphysical concept entirely independent of materialistic thinking if there were in fact no such thing?
All the fanciful and fairy tale beings we have made are simply imaginary alterations of something that already exists, but to invent a transcendent god is a gigantic and questionable leap of the imagination in my opinion.

I believe that Karl Marx said it, or at least something similar. And if he didn't, he should have.

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In that quote lies the need. Because we cannot imagine the infinite we need something to pin the whole thing on. Hence, a belief system, whatever it is. Even it's believing in nothing but ashes and dust.

"[Even a] fool, when he hears of … a being than which nothing greater can be conceived … understands what he hears, and what he understands is in his understanding.… And assuredly that, than which nothing greater can be conceived, cannot exist in the understanding alone. For suppose it exists in the understanding alone: then it can be conceived to exist in reality; which is greater.… Therefore, if that, than which nothing greater can be conceived, exists in the understanding alone, the very being, than which nothing greater can be conceived, is one, than which a greater can be conceived. But obviously this is impossible. Hence, there is no doubt that there exists a being, than which nothing greater can be conceived, and it exists both in the understanding and in reality." (St. Anselm, Archbishop of Cantebury (1033-1109)

And in the last two sentences lies the condundrum. In each of us is the perception and the belief of the greatness of what we believe in. And in the person next to us is their belief of something greater. We each exist as and of our own universe, and in that lies our individual truth.

And I'm still an evolutionist. In my own belief system of course.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

I don't think God CAN cheat- maybe it's cheating to human standards lol

Well, at least we can call it tinkering. Which makes one wonder: how come we haven't seen such tinkering again for hundreds, if not thousands, of years? Did God go on vacation or something?

I believe in God, but find His ways bafflingly inconsistent. My belief has given me no sense of security whatsoever.


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[Caledonia]

Ok, who's behind there? I know that chin!

 

[Terry Lennox]

you guys think too much...

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Homo Sapiens Sapiens doesn't think enough.

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[Caledonia]

They think too much, and hence confuse the simple facts of life.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Let me put it another way: humans don't reason enough.

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[WEEGEE]

FEAR OF REASON???

No, it was Fear Of Flying....Jong

 

[jamespowers]

I believe in God, but find His ways bafflingly inconsistent. My belief has given me no sense of security whatsoever..

Try some of Alexander Pope's Essay on Man:

As of thy mother Earth, why oaks are made
Taller or stronger than the weeds they shade.
...
And all that rises, rise in due degree;
Then, in the sale of reas'ning life, 'tis plain
There must be, somewhere, such a rank as Man.
...
When the dull ox, why now he breaks the clod,
Is now a victim, and now Egypt's god, -
...
Then say not Man's imperfect, Heav'n in fault, -
Say rather Man's as perfect as he ought:
His knowledge measur'd to his state and place,
His time a moment, and a point his space.

Regards to all,

J

 

[Caledonia]

Same thing. Too much reasoning, too much confusion, no simplicity. When was the last time you came across a room full of reasoners that reasoned on the same resonance? Go back to basics and feel how it should be.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Try some of Alexander Pope's Essay on Man.

Great stuff, though The Rape of the Lock and The Dunciad are more up my alley.

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[Marc Chevalier]

Same thing.

Reasoning always involves thinking, but one can think without reasoning.

Anyway, we restive souls are fftopic:.

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[jamespowers]

Great stuff, though The Rape of the Lock and The Dunciad are more up my alley.

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Why did I figure they would be?

 

[Lincsong]

I'm an evolution man. Total, random, accidental evolution.

bk

Does this also apply to global warming? That weather patterns are "total, random, accidental evolution"?

 

[Caledonia]

I disagree with the fftopic:. Creation or evolution. The mere process of thought and its discussion adapts us, changes our perception of what is. Mental perception may have a distinct part to play in how we individually and over generations adapt our physiology to cope with the environment around us. Adaptation is either a process of evolution or creation. Which? or Both. Same topic. On topic.

 

[Lincsong]

Homo Sapiens Sapiens doesn't think enough.

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Like I said earlier; in the theory of devolution man is devolving into apes. Therefore, those homosapiens who don't think enough are close to becoming their destiny; APES!

 

[Serial Hero]

“When Thomas Paine showed Benjamin Franklin the manuscript of The Age of Reason, Franklin advised him not to publish it, saying, ''The world is bad enough with the Bible; what would it be without it?''”

 

[Terry Lennox]

What does everyone have against Apes anyway?

 

[Briscoeteque]

Like I said earlier; in the theory of devolution man is devolving into apes. Therefore, those homosapiens who don't think enough are close to becoming their destiny; APES!

Maybe not nessesarily, but I remember reading somewhere that it is possible that the common ancestor of man and chimpanzee was perhaps more man-like then chimpanzee. Neat little nugget to think about.

As for the reliability of chemical dating, how can you totally dismiss it if you don't know what it is. This website I found explains it very well. http://www.howstuffworks.com/carbon-14.htm Like this website says, the principle can be applied to other elements with a longer radioactive half-life than carbon.

Now it's not particularly accurate all of the time, due to occasional fluctuations of radiation hitting earth. However, there tree called the bristlecone pine is exceptionally long lived, nearly five thousand years old, which is close to the half-life of Carbon 14. The bristlecone pine, like most trees, contains rings inside that document how old the tree is. The tree with a known age was tested by carbon 14, and the scale was recalibrated. It's still not wholly perfect to the year, but should the whole science of physics have any truth to it concerning radiation, radio-dating is as tried and true as the atom bomb. Of course, an all-powerful being could have altered the Carbon12/Carbon14 ratio in all things, but an all powerful being could also dismiss gravity tommarrow.

Edit: Seeing as I am an ape, proud member of family Hominidae, that contains humans, chimps, gorillas, and bonobos, I haven't much of a problem with them. That's why I donate to the Jane Goodall Institute.

 

[Mike K.]

???????????????????

According to the Bible, in the beginning there was just Adam and Eve. They had children - Cain and Abel. Cain left Eden "and knew his wife."

Now where did she come from??