Vocabulary Today

[Dr Doran]

I guess when I say force, I mean for example, my friend actually setting aside the half hour of reading time per night for her son that his teacher recommends.

I mean, he might not like it, but at least he will get the practice. I doubt that that will somehow make him hate reading if he doesn't already. If he isn't reading he obviously doesn't like it much, so at least getting him in the habit, or at least getting him to do it.

That sounds very sensible to me.

 

[Dr Doran]

Don't know about CA, but Seattle has a number of great community colleges. Many are feeders to the UW or other colleges. Many of the teachers have more out in the world experience, and many teachers ae quite knowledgeable and skilled. Besides that, large colleges often offer classes taught by undergrads who may be great, but are no more experienced than community college teachers. Also, it is nice to be in classes with some older people with world experience instead of just a bunch of kids, expecially people who are making a great effort to be there. Many more interesting discussions. Lastly, when I was a scheduling counselor for one for a summer, the statistic I heard was the drop out rate of cc students at the U was lower than the drop out rate of students who started at the U.

I have atteneded UW and Seattle University and was not always that impressed wiht the education I got there. One of the best teachers I had wa at cc. He was very knowledgeable, but moreso, was able to actually share his love and enthusiasm for astronomy. Quite infectious.

Maybe we are just lucky with ours here.

As for Maxim, maybe most of it is kind of dumb. But some of those article are written by skilled professional free lance writers and can be pretty funny. I don't always have the energy or time to read the NEw Yorker. Am I the only one who likes Newyorker articles for about two pages, thinking I have really gotten the jist of the article, then flips back to discover ten more pages of it and never get around to finishing?

I'm very pleased to hear that. You are a lucky man and live in a wonderful town. My dear friend Brian Frazier went to JC in Seattle and loved it and then transferred to U-Dub and then did his PhD at Berkeley and now is writing his thesis on taxation in Classical Greece.

For the record, some community college students out here have reported better profs than I have seen. I had ONE great prof in JC, Ed Moreno, who was as good a history lecturer as almost all the really good ones at Berkeley (Erich Gruen in Hellenistic Greek and Roman history, Carlos Norena in Roman history, David Hollinger in American Intellectual history) and better than MANY who shall remain nameless in case I need their help some day.

As for the New Yorker -- I bloody love it and will stand by it until I die. New York Review of Books, too.

 

[MaryDeluxe]

PBS series and a rant

This was an interesting site that I ran across. I think some of you would enjoy reading it...
http://www.pbs.org/speak/ahead/change/society/

Now the rant...
It is unrealistic to expect a school to resolve all the issues created and caused by society. Education should be a shared responsibility among, school, family, learner, and the community. However, in today's changing society this is a very rare occurrence. The education system needs to change in order to educate it's new type of clientele. The schools are struggling to meet these new demands. They are overwhelmed, but they are trying. Change never happens overnight. And as far as I am concerned, no child left behind is a joke that forces your schools to teach to pass a test! If your clientele can't pass a test your school loses their goverment funding. Guess what schools are losing the funding that they so desperately need because they can't pass a stupid test made be some stupid person who knows nothing about the type of student that is taking the test?? That's right, the poor urban schools. I could go on and on about all the things that are wrong with our educational system or the things I see every day in my classroom, but I won't because I don't think you want to know just how bad it is. And besides wasn't this thread about vocabulary today?

 

[reetpleat]

This was an interesting site that I ran across. I think some of you would enjoy reading it...
http://www.pbs.org/speak/ahead/change/society/

Now the rant...
It is unrealistic to expect a school to resolve all the issues created and caused by society. Education should be a shared responsibility among, school, family, learner, and the community. However, in today's changing society this is a very rare occurrence. The education system needs to change in order to educate it's new type of clientele. The schools are struggling to meet these new demands. They are overwhelmed, but they are trying. Change never happens overnight. And as far as I am concerned, no child left behind is a joke that forces your schools to teach to pass a test! If your clientele can't pass a test your school loses their goverment funding. Guess what schools are losing the funding that they so desperately need because they can't pass a stupid test made be some stupid person who knows nothing about the type of student that is taking the test?? That's right, the poor urban schools. I could go on and on about all the things that are wrong with our educational system or the things I see every day in my classroom, but I won't because I don't think you want to know just how bad it is. And besides wasn't this thread about vocabulary today?

there is a speaker on NPR who is abit of an expert on education. He talks to a lot of teachers and examines a lot of schools. He says that in a lot of schools, they are dropping all kinds of music, art, and other mind expanding classes that are not teaching to the test. But in suburban and wealthy neighborhood schools, there is no question of a well rounded education. Of course, there is no excuse for not giving a child the fundamentals. But from what I hear of the testing, it is no solution.

 

[dr greg]

a while back but obviously still relevant

http://www.amazon.com/Must-Have-Prizes-Melanie-Phillips/dp/0751522740

 

[jamespowers]

Thank you, I was afraid you'd force me to goose step there for a moment. With a dunce cap.

That ain't gonna happen. Then again, it might help some children learn.

 

[scotrace]

 

[jamespowers]

Have you been to my local high screwall?

 

[reetpleat]

This was an interesting site that I ran across. I think some of you would enjoy reading it...
http://www.pbs.org/speak/ahead/change/society/

Now the rant...
It is unrealistic to expect a school to resolve all the issues created and caused by society. Education should be a shared responsibility among, school, family, learner, and the community. However, in today's changing society this is a very rare occurrence. The education system needs to change in order to educate it's new type of clientele. The schools are struggling to meet these new demands. They are overwhelmed, but they are trying. Change never happens overnight. And as far as I am concerned, no child left behind is a joke that forces your schools to teach to pass a test! If your clientele can't pass a test your school loses their goverment funding. Guess what schools are losing the funding that they so desperately need because they can't pass a stupid test made be some stupid person who knows nothing about the type of student that is taking the test?? That's right, the poor urban schools. I could go on and on about all the things that are wrong with our educational system or the things I see every day in my classroom, but I won't because I don't think you want to know just how bad it is. And besides wasn't this thread about vocabulary today?

As with many of society's ills, we need to fix the social network. We can not expect schools to just educate better, we can not expect to stop drug problems with just trying to stem supply and arrest users, we can not expect people to live as upstanding members of society until we make them believe it is possible. Schools are a good place to start though. Not by cracking down on schools that have underperforming students, but by allocating resources to the school and community.

 

[jamespowers]

Not by cracking down on schools that have underperforming students, but by allocating resources to the school and community.

Tried that. It doesn't work. Throwing money at a problem never gets anything done other than waste money.
The actual structural problems need to be addressed to truly understand what type of teaching is not working. In my time it was lousy "New Math." It didn't work worth a damn and made the situation worse because it was harder in form and substance that old math. It also made it harder for parents who were taught the old way to help their children with homework and such. I just used old math to get my answers and told them to call my mother if they had a problem with it. By the end of the month, everyone else in the class was doiing the same and understanding much better.
This is today's problem with outcome based education. Letter grades aren't given so that you can actually tell how well the child is doing. The correct answer is also not important. It is the process.
I could go on and on about problems I have confronted in the school system over the past twenty years but that is another thread. Suffice it to say that structuring education so that it works for the most people possible is all that is really needed. This usually spends less money and uses less people so that is never though of in the first place. :eusa_doh:

Regards,

J

 

[Dr Doran]

Tried that. It doesn't work. Throwing money at a problem never gets anything done other than waste money.
The actual structural problems need to be addressed to truly understand what type of teaching is not working. In my time it was lousy "New Math." It didn't work worth a damn and made the situation worse because it was harder in form and substance that old math. It also made it harder for parents who were taught the old way to help their children with homework and such. I just used old math to get my answers and told them to call my mother if they had a problem with it. By the end of the month, everyone else in the class was doiing the same and understanding much better.
This is today's problem with outcome based education. Letter grades aren't given so that you can actually tell how well the child is doing. The correct answer is also not important. It is the process.
I could go on and on about problems I have confronted in the school system over the past twenty years but that is another thread. Suffice it to say that structuring education so that it works for the most people possible is all that is really needed. This usually spends less money and uses less people so that is never though of in the first place. :eusa_doh:

Regards,

J

But ... but .. . more PAY for the teachers is surely a fine idea. Get people with university degrees to teach high school instead of people with only a high school degree.
Then again, just to be the devil's advocate, some degrees aren't worth much. One of the dumbest people I have ever met in my life had a university degree in "Multicultural Studies." She had no independent thought at all and was utterly incapable of looking through different angles at the problems she was studying. There was only one acceptable angle in her mind and all else was only worthy of her outrage.
She teaches at a JC, Diablo, around here.
But still, making K-12 teaching jobs more attractive to college graduates by offering them a more attractive wage (and correspondingly demanding more) cannot be other than a generally good idea.

 

[jamespowers]

But ... but .. . more PAY for the teachers is surely a fine idea. Get people with university degrees to teach high school instead of people with only a high school degree.
Then again, just to be the devil's advocate, some degrees aren't worth much. One of the dumbest people I have ever met in my life had a university degree in "Multicultural Studies." She had no independent thought at all and was utterly incapable of looking through different angles at the problems she was studying. There was only one acceptable angle in her mind and all else was only worthy of her outrage.
She teaches at a JC, Diablo, around here.
But still, making K-12 teaching jobs more attractive to college graduates by offering them a more attractive wage (and correspondingly demanding more) cannot be other than a generally good idea.

More money and three more months of vacation and holidays right?
All higher level education is really good for is to show that you can follow instructiojns really. College can be a remedial excercise in what to think---not how to think. Thus we have your one sided friend.
The only thing that could actually make me teach would be either an armed guard in the class or actual real discipline being enforced. There is the problem as far as I am concerned.

 

[Undertow]

This is simply priceless! :eusa_clap lol

 

[carebear]

But ... but .. . more PAY for the teachers is surely a fine idea. Get people with university degrees to teach high school instead of people with only a high school degree.

How'd that work out for Kennedy's brain trust?

University degrees are not a guarantee of anything, individually monitoring performance and rewarding the superior based on results is the only way to have a chance at getting quality employees in any field.

Whether folks are "in it for the money" or not, people who's income relies on performance (in essence on commission) make for better employees.

The key is fine-tuning the evaluation process.

 

[Dr Doran]

You are all making good points about evaluation and discipline being key, but getting a pool of good applicants interested in the first place is a necessary (although not sufficient) condition, and I stand by the below:

 

[carebear]

I dunno, most teachers I'm aware of get as good of a benefit's package and initial salary as other similarly schooled and experienced professionals, if not better due to union representation, and that salary is for an (albeit intense) 9 months work, not necessarily a full 12.

I understand the "future of a generation" thing but it is, in the end, just a job. If I'm going to be asked, as a parent, to pay premium wages, above comparative fields, I'll want a lot more direct control over the process of hiring, firing, evaluation and curriculum.

That means the unions go away, as does fed/state influence and the taxes thereof.

 

[Dr Doran]

More parent control might result in something like uber-Christian parents in a community insisting on teaching ID instead of evolution.

I cannot join you on this one.

 

[carebear]

More parent control might result in something like uber-Christian parents in a community insisting on teaching ID instead of evolution.

I cannot join you on this one.

Only a problem if you insist on kids going to a particular school.

If the crazies want to teach their kids whacked out stuff they can do it on their own dime as well.

Meanwhile, I and the rest of the sane parents will arrange for our own children's instruction.

Modern mandated public education was explicitly created to produce an adequately educated workforce for mass industry and to provide for political socialization for the immigrant children that would fill those ranks.

We don't need the former anymore, as the days of mass employment in industrial production are over, and the second is more properly the responsibility of parents, even if they are idiots. It's time for a new paradigm in education.

 

[jamespowers]

Only a problem if you insist on kids going to a particular school.

If the crazies want to teach their kids whacked out stuff they can do it on their own dime as well.

Meanwhile, I and the rest of the sane parents will arrange for our own children's instruction.

Modern mandated public education was explicitly created to produce an adequately educated workforce for mass industry and to provide for political socialization for the immigrant children that would fill those ranks.

We don't need the former anymore, as the days of mass employment in industrial production are over, and the second is more properly the responsibility of parents, even if they are idiots. It's time for a new paradigm in education.

Exactly. :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap :eusa_clap