Vintage Suitings: Discussions of, and sourcing modern equivalents, etc.

[herringbonekid]

it seems serge was reserved more for everyday suits (as Barmey has already noted above ) rather than dressy suits, boys suits and also odd jackets.

an add in Sears 1923 for unlined serge jackets states:

"Wear an unlined coat (jacket) either in serge or alpaca and save the wear and tear of the coat of your regular suit.
Extremely comfortable. Just the garment for dentists, doctors, clerks and others who work in offices, stores or factories"

 

[Guttersnipe]

it seems serge was reserved more for everyday suits (as Barmey has already noted above ) rather than dressy suits, boys suits and also odd jackets.

an add in Sears 1923 for unlined serge jackets states:

"Wear an unlined coat (jacket) either in serge or alpaca and save the wear and tear of the coat of your regular suit.
Extremely comfortable. Just the garment for dentists, doctors, clerks and others who work in offices, stores or factories"

This was definitely the case in the U.S. too. In more recent popular culture, a reference to The Man in the Grey Flannel Suit is more recognizable due to the novel and film of the same name. However, to people of the golden era though mid-century generations, a reference to a man in a blue serge suit would have the same connotation; a work-a-day garment worn by office dwellers that comprise the ranks of the "great washed masses".

There's a great line in a Noir (the name of which escapes me at moment) where, during the climatic verbal confrontation between the crooked soul and the honest cop, the antagonist says something along the lines of "You're a steady fella, the kind who's satisfied with one blue serge a year. Well, some of us need more, see, some of us want to live!" -- then he goes for his gun and gets blasted by the cop. . .

 

[Patrick Hall]

There's a great line in a Noir (the name of which escapes me at moment) where, during the climatic verbal confrontation between the crooked soul and the honest cop, the antagonist says something along the lines of "You're a steady fella, the kind who's satisfied with one blue serge a year. Well, some of us need more, see, some of us want to live!" -- then he goes for his gun and gets blasted by the cop. . .

Also Raymond Chandler's Marlowe story Goldfish (1936) includes this little bit of dialogue:

"Did you ever hear of the Leander pearls?" she asked. "Gosh, that blue serge shines. You must have money in the bank, the clothes you wear."
"No," I said, "to both your ideas. I never heard of the Leander pearls and don't have any money in the bank."

Initially, I thought she was complimenting Marlowe - but with what folks have said about the way serge shines at the elbows and seat after repeated wearings - perhaps it's a snide insult?

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

Yes, it means the suit would be worn out. Not sure if it was an insult?
I heard that british Gentlemen take pride in wearing old clothes. Even members of the royal familiy wear their bespoke pieces until they fall apart.


PS: That wouldn't work with the blue serge as a working mans fabric. Forget my idea.

 

[Barmey]

Not the best photos. Doesn't quite show off the distintive diagonal weave.





And maybe a modern equivalent

 

[herringbonekid]

this 17 oz flannel from Fox looks like it might be the perfect heavy grey flannel trouser fabric:

... unfortunately it's £92 a metre.

 

[Fastuni]

Can someone help me name this type of (shirt) fabric?
I guess it is cotton or cotton with some rayon blended in.
It is very sturdy but not rough. From some distance, where the (very flat) "corded" structure becomes visible.


Thanks!

 

[splintercellsz]

Here are close-up photos of my early 20's Middishade Blue Serge Suit. Click each photo to enlarge it. My apologies for the photo quality. I will try to take better ones if needed.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

dumb answer, but it's not just corduroy is it? It does come in a wide array of weights.

Can someone help me name this type of (shirt) fabric?

 

[herringbonekid]

Fastuni, that could be a shirt-weight whipcord.

 

[Fastuni]

Thanks for the ideas guys, but I don't think it's either of them.
Certainly no corduroy, it is not velvety at all, and it has not really a clear diagonal rib structure like whipcord.

More like "interwoven" lines that from distance create flat "ribs". [huh]

Cheers

 

[Broccoli]

this 17 oz flannel from Fox looks like it might be the perfect heavy grey flannel trouser fabric:

... unfortunately it's £92 a metre.

Would their flannel be able to drape well? I hope they have a cream flannel. They seem to make quality at least.

 

[herringbonekid]

Would their flannel be able to drape well? I hope they have a cream flannel. They seem to make quality at least.

i've never used Fox Flannel, only handled swatches of it, but at 17 oz i don't think you'll have any problems with drape.

the cream flannel can be seen here, but it's only 14 oz:

http://www.themerchantfox.co.uk/cat/54/suiting-and-jacketing-lengths

14oz - to my mind - doesn't quite have the 'vintage heaviness' necessary for a true cream cricket flannel.

 

[Broccoli]

i've never used Fox Flannel, only handled swatches of it, but at 17 oz i don't think you'll have any problems with drape.

the cream flannel can be seen here, but it's only 14 oz:

http://www.themerchantfox.co.uk/cat/54/suiting-and-jacketing-lengths

14oz - to my mind - doesn't quite have the 'vintage heaviness' necessary for a true cream cricket flannel.

So probably not worth it then? I am thinking for a summer pair, so how hot does flannel get in heavier weights?

 

[herringbonekid]

I am thinking for a summer pair, so how hot does flannel get in heavier weights?

i couldn't tell you as i don't wear flannel in the summer. 18oz flannel is an Autumn-Winter weather cloth.
if you want a summer pair of cream trousers that aren't too heavy but still have a bit of weight then that 14oz cloth might be ideal.


p.s. there's also a 10oz cream flannel on page 4 of that link.

 

[Guttersnipe]

i've never used Fox Flannel, only handled swatches of it, but at 17 oz i don't think you'll have any problems with drape.

the cream flannel can be seen here, but it's only 14 oz:

http://www.themerchantfox.co.uk/cat/54/suiting-and-jacketing-lengths

14oz - to my mind - doesn't quite have the 'vintage heaviness' necessary for a true cream cricket flannel.

I sorta thought then same thing when I ordered a sample of Fox Brothers' heaviest cream flannel, but I wasn't totally sure. When looking at cloth books/samples, I find gauging what a cloth will drape like once made into a garment tough.

 

[herringbonekid]

I sorta thought then same thing when I ordered a sample of Fox Brothers' heaviest cream flannel...

was that the 14oz or a different heavier one ?

 

[Guttersnipe]

was that the 14oz or a different heavier one ?

I emailed and asked for a sample of their "heaviest weight cream flannel." The handwritten stock number reads: CBT5 A1285/88 and it's marked 370/400g.

I compared it against a leftover swatch of 12 oz. Vitale Barberis Canonico flannel I had a suit made from and honestly can't tell much difference. The Fox fabric feels a little denser, whereas the VBC is more fluffy (does that make any sense?). The suit made out of VBC is a conservative, modern charcoal gray suit (read: boring) that I wear to work in the winter. It has a nice drape by modern suit cloth standards, but it's defintely not "vintagesque."

I have to say, I was bit. disappointed. I really want to find a good cream flannel so I can have someone like you or Quirel make me the perfect pair of 30s style cream flannel trousers.

 

[Broccoli]

I emailed and asked for a sample of their "heaviest weight cream flannel." The handwritten stock number reads: CBT5 A1285/88 and it's marked 370/400g.

I compared it against a leftover swatch of 12 oz. Vitale Barberis Canonico flannel I had a suit made from and honestly can't tell much difference. The Fox fabric feels a little denser, whereas the VBC is more fluffy (does that make any sense?). The suit made out of VBC is a conservative, modern charcoal gray suit (read: boring) that I wear to work in the winter. It has a nice drape by modern suit cloth standards, but it's defintely not "vintagesque."

I have to say, I was bit. disappointed. I really want to find a good cream flannel so I can have someone like you or Quirel make me the perfect pair of 30s style cream flannel trousers.

I feel the same, if you ever find anything of interest, please contact me as I am very eager to own "the perfect pair" next summer!

 

[herringbonekid]

I emailed and asked for a sample of their "heaviest weight cream flannel." The handwritten stock number reads: CBT5 A1285/88 and it's marked 370/400g.

yes, that's the 13-14oz 'cricket white' (really cream) flannel in the link above. i have a swatch too. it's good, but would be great it it was 18oz.