Vicenza leather in new Aero is inconsistent

[Edward]

I sense a toning down of the emotion here, first you said “I don’t like it” now “I like the jacket a lot”. Well, could be liking different aspects of the “jacket experience”. But, I’d say the only true cause for concern would be the discrepancy in thickness, but even that, it’s no indication of longevity because one piece could be puffy while the other could be dense, the dense one will puff up eventually & end up like the other. You pointed out “saving cost” while charging over $1k don’t go together these days, I certainly feel the sentiment, but hey, we do live a romantic, fantastical life here collecting these insanely expensive jackets that we don’t need. The businessmen feed into our craze for this romantic chase of historical authenticity of which “the act of saving cost” is part. Of course, the major historical inaccuracy is THE SOLDIERS DIDNT HAVE TO PAY THAT MUCH (or pay at all) to get an A2 lol, AND, they NEED the jacket!


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Way I heard it, a lot of them even preferred the B10!!

 

[Big J]

Well - most of them paid with their lives, so I'm not sure I agree on that...

Ok, I know that 'accuracy' and 'facts' are like dirty words around here lately, but let's not get carried away and make sweeping statements that sound dramatic but have no basis in fact.
Here are loss rate tables for the 8th AAF in WWII, flying in Europe where they would have worn A-2s, as opposed to the Pacific theater where A-2s would have been worn less often if anything.

http://www.taphilo.com/history/8thaf/8aflosses.shtml

Not 'most' at all.
Surely the survival of so many A-2s with dark seal brown oversprays shows us that many aircrew flew their tours, were removed from flight status, returned their flight gear to the depot, and it was reconditioned and issued again. Not only that, but the new recipient also survived the war since the jackets are still extant.

Let's not trivialize the sacrifice that The Greatest Generation made to defeat fascism by flippantly throwing out that they died for clothes. Next you'll be claiming that selling patches is 'serving your country' like the A-2 patch guy.

 

[Cocker]

But I'm happy to believe that if it is a BR jacket, then BR made it as an exact reproduction of an original jacket they have in their extensive collection because that's how they work (and the fact that the William Gibson range was 'invented' so unusual for them).

I'm sorry Big J, but BR being accurate... Well, I'm still to see an original B-10 jacket with rust knits, for example. I think their base models are pretty accurate, but they have lots of variations based only on market value, and not on historical accuracy.

 

[domaineminent]

Thanks for all the input!

Yes, the smoother sections are noticeably thinner. If I feel the top more grainy part of the back compared to the smoother lower back part it is very obviously much thinner even though it is all one piece of leather. The thicker parts are less soft and don't flex as easily, possibly that is contributing to the sense of thinness but I do think these sections are actually thinner, That said, the comments about it possibly just being denser in the thinner parts could be true and maybe this will all even out in time as the thicker parts wear down and the thinner parts puff up. I'm less concerned with the variation in appearance than I am in the potential for the thin parts to be less durable and to become even more noticeably different - the lower back and right arm both get the most wear so they seem like the two worst places to have the thinner sections of leather. It is very true though that the Vincenza is a very durable leather so perhaps my concerns aren't really legitimate. My last leather jacket died a tragic death due to the leather getting heavily worn down (it ripped!) so I am maybe overly concerned from that experience. Thanks again for all of the input, you guys are amazingly knowledgeable!

 

[ton312]

Thanks for all the input!

Yes, the smoother sections are noticeably thinner. If I feel the top more grainy part of the back compared to the smoother lower back part it is very obviously much thinner even though it is all one piece of leather. The thicker parts are less soft and don't flex as easily, possibly that is contributing to the sense of thinness but I do think these sections are actually thinner, That said, the comments about it possibly just being denser in the thinner parts could be true and maybe this will all even out in time as the thicker parts wear down and the thinner parts puff up. I'm less concerned with the variation in appearance than I am in the potential for the thin parts to be less durable and to become even more noticeably different - the lower back and right arm both get the most wear so they seem like the two worst places to have the thinner sections of leather. It is very true though that the Vincenza is a very durable leather so perhaps my concerns aren't really legitimate. My last leather jacket died a tragic death due to the leather getting heavily worn down (it ripped!) so I am maybe overly concerned from that experience. Thanks again for all of the input, you guys are amazingly knowledgeable!

LOL. Kudos for actually being able to siphon back to the original intent of the thread!

 

[Big J]

@Cocker, careful, you're talking about facts! Butte gave you a 'like' but I get called an 'accuracy nutter'. Guess DD is paying him to comment negatively about BR after all.

The only original B-10 jackets I have ever seen have been in photos. I've never seen even one original B-10 in real life. I guess they photograph only the most 'normal' B-10's for photo books to give representation of what the majority of jackets looked like.

Given the competition dwarfing financial resources that BR have, I do not find it beyond the realms of credibility that they could have an original B-10 with rust knits in their archives.

Like I said, I've never handled even one original. How about you?

 

[Big J]

@ton312, I might have missed it in the bitching, but I want to know if the OP contacted Aero about this as I (and others) suggested way back, and what Aero's response was.
That's way more important than what a bunch of faceless aliases say on the internet.

 

[ton312]

@ton312, I might have missed it in the bitching, but I want to know if the OP contacted Aero about this as I (and others) suggested way back, and what Aero's response was.
That's way more important than what a bunch of faceless aliases say on the internet.

I agree. I don't think that was ever disclosed. Perhaps the OP will oblige?

 

[ton312]

I will say that every jacket I've owned, be it north of $1K or less than $50 has had inconsistent (to varying degrees) panels. I've never considered it a fault, I mean we are talking about a formerly living animals skin. Some variance HAS to be expected. I'm sure if I were made into a jacket there would be inconsistent panels. Especially if it were a grizzly.
Back panel would be just fine. LOL. Let that sink in. Thankfully, I'm not putting any lotion in a basket.

 

[TREEMAN]

On my 641, the inside of both arms is a bit thicker than the top part....I always thought it was purposely done like that because that part of the arm gets more wear.

 

[nick123]

My Johnson moto jacket had this softer, grainier leather near the pits on both sides if I recall correctly. I remember going “must be the cow’s belly”.

 

[Cocker]

@Big J , first of all, please keep your feud with Butte out of our conversation, will ya? I have no interest in that. Thanks

Second, I handled a couple original B-10, saw a fair deal up close too. I'm yet to see a period picture or an original jacket on sale with rust/berry knits.

Indeed, their explanation of the rust knits on this jacket is totally plausible, but not supported with any hard facts. Same goes with other jackets they are offering, such as the blue L-2A with olive lining and knits. My point is, I fail to understand how one can dismiss jackets made by one brand because they can add body/sleeve length, and boast another maker for making perfect replicas made to spec when there is no evidence to support their deviation from the original pattern/specs. To me, although the type of deviation is different, it's still a deviation.

That being said, if I could fall in the specs for a BR B-10 with rust knits, I'd be all over it!

 

[JMax]

I will say that every jacket I've owned, be it north of $1K or less than $50 has had inconsistent (to varying degrees) panels. I've never considered it a fault, I mean we are talking about a formerly living animals skin. Some variance HAS to be expected. I'm sure if I were made into a jacket there would be inconsistent panels. Especially if it were a grizzly.
Back panel would be just fine. LOL. Let that sink in. Thankfully, I'm not putting any lotion in a basket.

It puts the lotion in the basket...it puts the lotion in the basket...GIVE ME BACK MY PRECIOUS. Sorry, could not resist.

 

[bluesmandan]

Is the mismatching only happening with lighter colors? It wouldn’t happen with seal or black, right? All the pics so far have been lighter browns...


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[Milesdeathescape]

I believe this is intended. The mobility of the inner arm is important for a pilot to use the hand controls. The outer arm panels should be tough. That’s why for instance the ANJ4 has heavy Hyde shielding on the outer arms and cuffs. Considering this is a pilots jacket, I believe you got what you paid for. Wear and enjoy.


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[Harris HTM]

Is the mismatching only happening with lighter colors? It wouldn’t happen with seal or black, right? All the pics so far have been lighter browns...


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Mismatching in colour shade or texture?

 

[bluesmandan]

Mismatching in colour shade or texture?

Color.


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[Milesdeathescape]

Have you emailed and asked them straight up?


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[willyto]

Don't worry about your leather jacket when in the long run can look just like this one: http://www.aeroleatherclothing.com/product-detail.php?id=3668

 

[HPA Rep]

@Big J , first of all, please keep your feud with Butte out of our conversation, will ya? I have no interest in that. Thanks

Second, I handled a couple original B-10, saw a fair deal up close too. I'm yet to see a period picture or an original jacket on sale with rust/berry knits.

Indeed, their explanation of the rust knits on this jacket is totally plausible, but not supported with any hard facts. Same goes with other jackets they are offering, such as the blue L-2A with olive lining and knits. My point is, I fail to understand how one can dismiss jackets made by one brand because they can add body/sleeve length, and boast another maker for making perfect replicas made to spec when there is no evidence to support their deviation from the original pattern/specs. To me, although the type of deviation is different, it's still a deviation.

That being said, if I could fall in the specs for a BR B-10 with rust knits, I'd be all over it!

It's a shame the OP's topic has morphed into this debate, which should have its own separate topic, but since it has, I feel a need to set things right.

"Fantasy" or generic jackets by Buzz Rickson's will typically contain the BR label, whereas those with original-maker labels are intended to accurately portray specific vintage specimens. The BR Superior Togs L-2A with O. D. knit and lining is based on an extant example(s), as is the Superior Togs B-10 with red knit. This was all nicely explained by someone else a few years ago who took the time to contact me on the subject, but, it seems, you didn't see that or don't recall it.

I have personally seen one vintage B-10 many years ago at the old Great Western Show (and it really was GREAT) that had red knit and my memory is that it was not made by Superior Togs, but I do clearly recall it was in poor shape and that's why I didn't buy it, which I now regret. There is enough evidence of other WWII jackets being made with red knit (USN styles and A-2's) that, along with my sighting of the B-10, leads me to fully believe Superior Togs made some. BR said they used one to make their copy and I have full conviction of this.

The L-2A's with O. D. knits (and B-15C's) have been documented by me in the past and are, no surprise, early examples, just as are the N-2A and N-3A jackets with brown sheepskin in the hoods instead of blue and real coyote trim instead of synthetic; also B-15C's in blue with brown fur collars. I have seen all of these early styles, and here's a vintage pic of such an L-2A worn by Capt. Merrill Gleason, 334th FIS, Kempo Air Base, Korea, 1952 (Photo courtesy of my friend, 1st Lt. Dick Keener, 335th FIS F-86 pilot in Korea 1952-53):

Please note Capt. Gleason is wearing a rare USAF officer's shirt made in blue as part of the Class B working uniform. If anyone suggests the knit on Capt. Gleason's jacket faded from blue to O. D. I'm gonna blow a gasket! ;-)

May I please use this moment to ask members to get back on topic and to critique brands/makers on a separate, dedicated topic. And I'll jump in that mess as the situation may warrant. Thank you!