USAF N-3B parkas - Let's talk about them!!

[Fifty150]

(although it's not clear if they still provide N3Bs to the military)

I thought the N-3B has been phased out. If only ECWCS is used, then nobody is still providing N-3B to US Military.

for what it's worth Alpha made N2B jackets deep into the 1980s for the military

When did those "phase out"? When did the N-3B get replaced? So only ECWCS Gen 3 is issued now?

 

[Peacoat]

Thanks @Doctor Damage I was going strictly by memory, but looks as though I remembered correctly.

I would like to have one of the F series N3-B, but they are expensive on ebay and many are not in good condition. My use would be to rat around in it on the farm on really cold days and not take a chance on damaging my Canada Goose, my ThunderBay or one of my deck jackets. Of course if I had the F series N3-B, I wouldn't want to damage that either.

The better alternative might be to get a post F series and not worry about it. I believe the N3-B F series was the last one with the wool interlining.

 

[Setok]

Sorry, I mistyped. It's Valley Apparel that makes their N3B in the US. Alpha specifically does not. They moved production to the Far East. I also believe Alpha is no longer a military contractor. Certainly not for their N3Bs. I now fixed that, apologies!

To continue on this thread, I just heard from Valley Apparel that they are no longer making the N3Bs due to high demand for their Mil-Spec wear. This is unfortunate as it means one fewer American manufacturer of N3Bs. Are there any manufacturers there left?

If someone spots an XL Valley Apparel for sale somewhere, I might be interested. I'm not very keen to jump on the Alpha bandwagon due to them moving production overseas. The VA ones seem to be almost completely sold out everywhere.

 

[Doctor Damage]

To continue on this thread, I just heard from Valley Apparel that they are no longer making the N3Bs due to high demand for their Mil-Spec wear. This is unfortunate as it means one fewer American manufacturer of N3Bs. Are there any manufacturers there left?

If someone spots an XL Valley Apparel for sale somewhere, I might be interested. I'm not very keen to jump on the Alpha bandwagon due to them moving production overseas. The VA ones seem to be almost completely sold out everywhere.

If you keep an eye on e-Bay and whatnot you might come across one eventually, but it could take years. I doubt they're any better than the Alpha coats and in photos (at least the ones I've seen) they look more or less the same quality. What would be best to look for is one of the Alpha Replica series parkas which had wool insulation (and sometimes a red Alpha tag on the cigarette pocket). Those are never cheap, though. Or of course just get one of the genuine military parkas which are still quite commonly available on e-bay at various condition/price levels, including brand new unworn.

 

[Setok]

If you keep an eye on e-Bay and whatnot you might come across one eventually, but it could take years. I doubt they're any better than the Alpha coats and in photos (at least the ones I've seen) they look more or less the same quality. What would be best to look for is one of the Alpha Replica series parkas which had wool insulation (and sometimes a red Alpha tag on the cigarette pocket). Those are never cheap, though. Or of course just get one of the genuine military parkas which are still quite commonly available on e-bay at various condition/price levels, including brand new unworn.

I doubt the Valley Apparel ones are much better quality than Alpha, but for a garment with such heritage it feels wrong to get one that's made somewhere in the Far East, and I have a problem with Alpha moving their production there. If someone handed me an Alpha, would I throw it away? No. But if I'm spending money, I'd prefer if it was made in the US (and no, I'm not American, but it bothers me that brands like Alpha and Barbour and whatnot move production away from their home).

 

[Fifty150]

But if I'm spending money, I'd prefer if it was made in the US

My problem is with the dollar amount. They charge the same, even though production shifted to China. I'm fine with Made In China. But they could have lowered the price.

 

[Setok]

Does anybody who has had both the GI version and one of the better quality civilian ones prefer the latter? Is there a big difference in warmth?

I’d be most concerned about burn holes and similar when lighting fires with a nylon shelled one. Then again the grey-blue cotton mix ones might not last as long, or be a bit more ‘hobo’.

 

[Harris HTM]

Does anybody who has had both the GI version and one of the better quality civilian ones prefer the latter? Is there a big difference in warmth?

I’d be most concerned about burn holes and similar when lighting fires with a nylon shelled one. Then again the grey-blue cotton mix ones might not last as long, or be a bit more ‘hobo’.

I own both an issued one (1982 Greenbrier, 80% cotton, 20% nylon outershell) and a made in China Alpha "slim-fit", bought in 2012. The Greenbrier is warmer and heavier (though no wool interlining), the Alpha being 100% nylon is more water proof.

 

[Setok]

I spotted one I might be keen on, but how is the sizing (I'm assuming this is the same as Alpha sizing, as it's not a GI one)? I'm tall (190cm, or around 6'2"), but with a 44" chest. I wear XL t-shirts. The chest size says for XL is 46–48, and I want a loose fit for jumpers etc under, but as these are unfortunately not particularly long parkas, I would be concerned it's too short for my height, so should I go for an XXL?

 

[Harris HTM]

if it is of any help: my Greenbrier is size Small and fits the same as the SLim Fit Alpha size M, maybe a bit short on back and sleeves. However we are talking about the Slim Fit Chinese Alpha.
In general I wear size M, (also my 2 Made in the US Alpha Ma-1's from the early 90's are M) and suit size I am a 40 (My chest could fit a 38 - my belly not).

 

[Doctor Damage]

I spotted one I might be keen on, but how is the sizing (I'm assuming this is the same as Alpha sizing, as it's not a GI one)? I'm tall (190cm, or around 6'2"), but with a 44" chest. I wear XL t-shirts. The chest size says for XL is 46–48, and I want a loose fit for jumpers etc under, but as these are unfortunately not particularly long parkas, I would be concerned it's too short for my height, so should I go for an XXL?

I've posted the official measurements for the military parkas several pages back in this thread so flip back. I'm 6'1" and 41" chest and I need to wear a Large in these to get the sleeve length, but that means the chest is far too roomy and it's difficult to get it snug to be warm. The N3B parkas are ill-fitting for people who are tall and relatively thin. If you're short and plump they're great fitting. You're better off with a good quality civilian parka if you're tall and thin, to be honest.

 

[Harris HTM]

If you're short and plump they're great fitting

Thankyou!

 

[Setok]

I've posted the official measurements for the military parkas several pages back in this thread so flip back. I'm 6'1" and 41" chest and I need to wear a Large in these to get the sleeve length, but that means the chest is far too roomy and it's difficult to get it snug to be warm. The N3B parkas are ill-fitting for people who are tall and relatively thin. If you're short and plump they're great fitting. You're better off with a good quality civilian parka if you're tall and thin, to be honest.

Is that a GI N3B, or is it an Alpha (or equivalent)? I get the feeling the GI ones might be sized bigger, but I'm not sure.

In my case I'm tall, but not thin. I have pretty much zero interest in civilian parkas, if I'm honest I already have more winter coats than I need (2 x Finnish army great coats, GI m65 Fishtail parka, WW2 British Duffle, Swiss Army great coat, 3 ulster coats). So this is more about connection with those coats and wearing them in different conditions and at different times. I love wearing winter coats! (Too bad this year's winter was so pathetic). I long debated between the Fishtail parka and the N3B, and ended up with the Fishtail as I think it's generally a better fit for my height. But still I occasionally go back to looking at N3Bs.

Having said that, everything I've amassed over the years is also functional. They are good length, keep me warm (for the different conditions I use them in), they're durable, not gimmicky and, I believe, stylish. I wouldn't want an N3B if I completely feel it is not doing the job, or is too short in the arms.

 

[Doctor Damage]

Here's the size chart I'm talking about, which is from the last N3B military specification document. As you can see, the chest measurements are extremely large. Of course, actual military surplus parkas will vary from these measurements, since there are tolerances and it's the military so "good enough" is often good enough.

 

[Doctor Damage]

In my case I'm tall, but not thin. I have pretty much zero interest in civilian parkas, if I'm honest I already have more winter coats than I need (2 x Finnish army great coats, GI m65 Fishtail parka, WW2 British Duffle, Swiss Army great coat, 3 ulster coats). So this is more about connection with those coats and wearing them in different conditions and at different times. I love wearing winter coats! (Too bad this year's winter was so pathetic). I long debated between the Fishtail parka and the N3B, and ended up with the Fishtail as I think it's generally a better fit for my height. But still I occasionally go back to looking at N3Bs.

Having said that, everything I've amassed over the years is also functional. They are good length, keep me warm (for the different conditions I use them in), they're durable, not gimmicky and, I believe, stylish. I wouldn't want an N3B if I completely feel it is not doing the job, or is too short in the arms.

Yeah, same here, if I'm being honest to myself I've got enough stuff!

 

[Setok]

Here's the size chart I'm talking about, which is from the last N3B military specification document. As you can see, the chest measurements are extremely large. Of course, actual military surplus parkas will vary from these measurements, since there are tolerances and it's the military so "good enough" is often good enough.

View attachment 223179

Thanks, those chest measurements are indeed big. Any idea how those would translate to a Valley Apparel one? I’m guessing they might follow Alpha’s sizing? I’m not sure if either one follows this chart or not.

 

[Doctor Damage]

Thanks, those chest measurements are indeed big. Any idea how those would translate to a Valley Apparel one? I’m guessing they might follow Alpha’s sizing? I’m not sure if either one follows this chart or not.

Alpha's made in the USA parkas from way back when follow it roughly. I've got one and the chest is 29" for size Large. I haven't had one of their recent/current China models, but from measurements I've accumulated from e-bay they appear to be a couple inches slimmer in the pit-to-pit measurment. Which might sound like a big difference, but the originals were extremely big in the chest, so it's more reasonable. The slim fit ones of course are notably thinner in the torso. I want to emphasize that this is just observing measurements from various sources, including some Japanese sites, so it's not necessarily accurate.

As for Valley, I've not actually seen one for sale anywhere online or in person, so no idea at all myself. Perhaps someone here has direct experience with them. Based on photos I've seen of them online I would caution against idealizing them, I expect they're no better than Alpha's stuff, which frankly is well made for what it is.

 

[Fifty150]

As you can see, the chest measurements are extremely large. Of course, actual military surplus parkas will vary from these measurements, since there are tolerances and it's the military so "good enough" is often good enough.

The fit is probably engineered for an under 30 years old, athletic built soldier. Who will be in a very cold, most likely subzero environment. That soldier will also be wearing many layers. That soldier will also be active, moving, and needs to be able to reach out and raise his arms.

I get it. Some people want a more fitted garment, because it will look nicer. I know that I can stand absolutely still, and look tailored in a jacket 1 or 2 sizes down. But not practical for me, as I also require range of motion.

 

[Doctor Damage]

The fit is probably engineered for an under 30 years old, athletic built soldier. Who will be in a very cold, most likely subzero environment. That soldier will also be wearing many layers. That soldier will also be active, moving, and needs to be able to reach out and raise his arms.

I get it. Some people want a more fitted garment, because it will look nicer. I know that I can stand absolutely still, and look tailored in a jacket 1 or 2 sizes down. But not practical for me, as I also require range of motion.

It's got nothing to do with wanting a fitted garment. If you have too much room between your body and the coat it doesn't keep you warm. No amount of layering will fix that. In fact, too much layering is bad because it means the coat never warms up and stays cold, thus acting as a heat sink, which is bad.

I have had a 1950s N3B go through my hands, and now own an Alpha USA N3B (which has the same measurements as the vintage parka), and I can assure you these parkas are not good for anyone who's tall and thin... and most young airmen are thin. Both parks are size Large. The vintage one had a 28" chest and the Alpha 29" chest. I had a Greenbrier 1990 military N3B in size Medium which I flipped since it was too short for me: the chest on that one was 26.5". The Medium was the proper chest for me and would have still allowed layering; the Large chests are ridiculously huge and I could literallly wear an MA-1 jacket underneath without problems. And raglan shoulders, which the N3B has, are not ideal for arm movement since because of how they are shaped they pull up the coat when you put your arms up. I know we've had this discussion before, but trust me, the N3B design is simply not suitable for Tall/Long people, which is I'm sure why it's been dumped and replaced by the modern winter gear which comes in a variety of lengths. When the N3 series was originally designed I'm sure it was fine for the average sized airman of the time... it's worth remember that time was the late 1940s, a million years ago in terms of average body sizes, etc. Also, the zipper and windflap on the N3B model are too short which means they don't actually close up around the bottom of the parka but the parka's skirts flap open in the wind; you need to wear insulated overalls with the N3B for proper protection.

I know we like to idolize classic USAF clothing, but it was never that awesome, although it was the best they had at the time. These days it's obsolete. Sad but true.

 

[Fifty150]

it was never that awesome, although it was the best they had at the time.

Same way everything has improved. Technology. If it was that awesome, then it would still be in use. Fighting knife, firearm, boots, the actual shirts and pants...... What's still the same? Even socks and underwear have been updated.

For myself, if I were going into a survival or warfare situation, I would want the most modern and effective equipment. As for simply getting from the parking lot to my building, waiting for a bus, hanging out in front of the corner liquor store, or walking a couple of blocks to get a pork chop - an N-3B is good enough. I don't need the latest technology. I can carry a 5 shot .38. I don't need a high capacity automatic.

I could literallly wear an MA-1 jacket underneath

That is actually a very warm combination. Not crazy. A jacket over your shirt and sweater. A coat goes over the jacket. Then the poncho liner. Finally the poncho. And don't forget the helmet. What? You guys don't walk around every day with a helmet, to match your military clothing?