USAF N-3B parkas - Let's talk about them!!

[Fifty150]

Here is what it looks like on me.

 

[Ernest P Shackleton]

I hear nothing but good things about Primaloft. As an aside, I know some mountaineers (like they're really out there climbing mountains whenever possible), and they swear by the stuff. I haven't had a conversation with them about insulation for a few years, so there might be something better at this point, but lots of positive feedback about Primaloft in actual demanding situations.

 

[Fifty150]

As luck would have it, I was assigned to report to The Airport. They needed extra bodies. I was told that an airport supervisor would decide what we were going to do, and assign tasks after we got there. I was instructed to provide "secondary support" in the area of the observation deck. I don't question the effectiveness of having a couple of guys sitting around on "bleachers" out on the tarmac. I don't even want to think about what we might have to do out there in the event of a "critical incident".

With winds blowing in off the bay, and planes flying in & out, it was pretty cold. So my partner's bright idea, was to buy a jacket from a vending machine in the terminal. Yes. That's right. The terminal now has vending machines that sell down jackets. A Uniqlo down jacket vending machine. I didn't have a better idea, so I bought 1 too.

Midway through the midnight shift, an airport ground crew guy on a golf cart took us back to the building, so that we could take a break. There was a box of sandwiches, which I was told, were leftovers from inflight service. Some international flights still have food served, and the passengers often reject it. Same sandwiches that you see being sold at gas stations and convenience stores. The guy who gave us the leftover food, led us down to a supply room in the basement. He pulled out an old, dusty box, the lid was marked "XL", hand written with a black marker. "Nobody liked these, so they're leftover too. They were suppose to be for the guys loading food into the plane. You guys can take one. It's better than freezing out there."

The airline food guy gave us brand new, MA-1 jackets. Red. Rothco tags attached. Still wrapped in plastic from the factory. Zipper pulls were covered with tissue paper. Free for me. No complaints. Perfect fit. Nylon outer shell. Polyester lining. I'm sure that the insulation filling and knit cuffs are not as nice as a premium brand. Made in China, so there is the stray thread which did not get trimmed down. I don't expect it to last a lifetime or be a collector's item.

While Rothco is not "Berry Compliant", and viewed as low quality, it is apparently bought in large lots, and issued, by cheap subcontractors, and distributed by uniform retailers as a low retail cost item.

At the end of watch, my partner had another bright idea. Go to the mall, and return the vending machine jackets at Uniqlo, since we now were wearing new Rothco jackets. While I was at the mall, I had a second look at the down filled parka. Fake fur hood. Slanted, chest level hand warmer pockets. Lower cargo pockets. Knit wristlet inside of the cuff. Inside pockets. Left hand zipper pull. XXL fits like an XL N-3B, but that's Japanese sizing for Asian marketplace. Hard to resist at $70.

No. Uniqlo is not a vendor to any military, as far as I know. I saw an article that the owner is now the richest man in Japan, and that Uniqlo is a top retailer worldwide. They are allegedly thriving with soaring sales, where US retailers are in bankruptcy and closing up shops.

I can only tell you that I've worn N-3B jackets as issued uniform for helicopter rides, perimeter checks riding in open top Jeeps, and standing post outdoors in cold weather. As a top coat, over layers including a jacket, I was warm. For function, this down filled parka from Uniqlo just feels nicer, lighter, and it may be just as durable. And because I really wanted a "test drive", I wore it. It's now winter. Middle of February. I went out on a motorcycle ride. I stayed warm. I really liked the hidden knit cuffs, which kept the wind out.

I hear nothing but good things about Primaloft.

Primaloft, and Thinsulate, are both very good. Both are suppose to insulate just as well as down, and are expected to be water resistant & work if wet. Real advantage. If down gets wet, it fails. Primaloft is often sold as "synthetic down". I have a few jackets with Thinsulate zip out liners. I've been satisfied with both.

 

[Ernest P Shackleton]

That would explain why Uniqlo could outbid Nike with Roger Federer. Not being popular here in the States, I was confused how this "small" company could take such a huge name and breadwinner from Nike. In reality, and outside my myopic Stateside opinion, we're talking about two analogous behemoths in the sports and textiles world.

That's a cool story, really. A free MA-1 produced in mass like pens and do-dads for a business, and a vending machine. They say Japan is the land of the vending machine. You can by ANYTHING from a vending machine in Japan. ANY-THING. Makes sense this company would have jacket vending machines elsewhere in the world. I find that both cool and disturbing for some reason. Outside my culture, I guess.

Water. The reason for Goretex, Dryloft, and the many, many new-tech insulations and various other membranes. I know an engineer who works for a telecommunications company. They offered a $1M bonus to any engineer who could make those big green metal boxes you see on the sides of the road, which are filled with wires, circuit boards, etc for communication, waterproof in hurricane winds. They had to also be accessible by repairmen, so there were other parameters and considerations. The elements, man. They don't play. To beat water and wind is a herculean task.

 

[Doctor Damage]

Great posts guys!!

Here's a photo which shows the "old" N3B and F1B trousers (right) next to what appear to be the new ECWS gear (left) that Fifty150 was posting about.

 

[Fifty150]

Interesting to see old gear and new gear in deployment together. I guess some guys have the option of not using new equipment. Since ECWCS is now in its 3rd generation. I thought that all of the old tech would be phased out. You don't see US military wearing BDU anymore. Everyone is wearing ACU now. You still see BDU worn by civilian law enforcement and private military industry. Some police agencies have uniforms specific to them, which is not BDU. Our pants and jumpsuit have "sap pockets", even though nobody carries a sap.

 

[Fifty150]

For true misers, there is the Amazon knockoff. This is how Jeff Bezos makes his money. Probably just as good as any other knockoff N-3B. Maybe even better. I hear that Amazon brand motor oil is knocking down all of the big name synthetic oil bottling.

 

[Cornelius]

Here's the N3-B's apparent replacement, the ECWCS Generation III Level 7 Parka in black instead of the more common grey-green. The shorter length of the ECWCS seems to virtually mandate wearing the trousers as well, making the parka less versatile IMHO for civilian use - not so much the all-purpose super cold weather parka the N3-B was, which you could just throw on to forget about the weather. The cargo pockets on the N3-B were also great for stowing hat, gloves, scarf, etc. The ECWCS has just two small handwarmer pockets.

 

[Fifty150]

The ECWCS has just two small handwarmer pockets.

The pants don't have pockets at all. You don't have to carry a lipstick or compact into battle. You only need the Level 7 as the top layer in extreme conditions. Having a 2 piece top and bottom is better than just a big coat with nothing to protect the lower body.

The cargo pockets on the N3-B were also great for stowing hat, gloves, scarf, etc.

I think that field strategy and fighting style has changed in the last 50 or 60 years. The long coats and parkas are awkward when you are trying to access equipment on your belt or Molle vest.

From personal experience, I can tell you that the N-3B is warm, but not really breathable. If I wore it on top, it covered everything and interfered with being able to draw my sidearm. All those buttons and a long zipper, before you can reach your holster. If I wore it with a gun belt or tactical vest on the outside, I got really hot, really fast, with no way to vent the heat.

As a coat for civilian use, it works great. As a civilian, I don't have to worry about being able to draw my sidearm; unless I am in a bad neighborhood. It's leaps and bounds ahead of a Wal-Mart coat. If I didn't have leftover pieces of issued workwear, accumulated over years of service, Walmart would be all that I could afford to wear.

 

[Cornelius]

Agreed on all points - I'm just interested in the N3-Bs for their usefulness in Midwestern civilian life, and it's just a bit of a bummer that surplus of the future [i.e., ECWCS Level 7 stuff] won't make the crossover as well.

 

[Fifty150]

You could carry a backpack.

 

[Doctor Damage]

Good points by everyone about the N3 parkas and the new stuff. I'm surprised by the lack of pockets but warefare these days isn't supposed to be lengthy like in WWII or Korea when you needed to carry all sorts of odds & ends for weeks.

As to the N3 parkas specifically, I quite sure that the N3 series parka was originally intended to be worn primarily by aircraft maintainers and traffic control and 'air police' standing around on airfields totally exposed to extreme winter weather. We forget that in the cold war there was a lot of USAF presence in remote locations. Although I'm sure the N3 series parkas were worn by aircrew in some larger bombers, I'm sure that wasn't too common, since the N2 series was just as heavy but being shorter would have been more convenient crawling around in an aircraft. But we don't have any official records or information so I'm speculating.

 

[Doctor Damage]

segment on the USAF cold weather survival training from 6:50 to 13:00, with some N3B's starting at 7:50

 

[Doctor Damage]

The link below has a bunch of amateur photos taken in c.1970 on Shemya Island by some young men, apparently civilians. Several of them are wearing N3B parkas and at least one N3A. The photographer claims copyright so I won't post the photos here. Worth taking a look. (There's also some fishtail parkas being worn, so the Mods can excited, haha)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/14844569@N07/albums/72157614920578225

 

[Doctor Damage]

 

[Cornelius]

As to the N3 parkas specifically, I quite sure that the N3 series parka was originally intended to be worn primarily by aircraft maintainers and traffic control and 'air police' standing around on airfields totally exposed to extreme winter weather. We forget that in the cold war there was a lot of USAF presence in remote locations. Although I'm sure the N3 series parkas were worn by aircrew in some larger bombers, I'm sure that wasn't too common, since the N2 series was just as heavy but being shorter would have been more convenient crawling around in an aircraft. But we don't have any official records or information so I'm speculating.

Yes I believe that's the case - the N3-B I wore to tatters had VERY reflective strips sewn to the front placket, both wrists, and down the spine. Gifted by someone who told me it'd originally been issued to crew marshalling aircraft above the Arctic Circle, standing around in total misery exposed to whipping winds. The reflectors were great for biking around Chicago in the miserable winters of my youth.

 

[Fifty150]

bit of a bummer that surplus of the future [i.e., ECWCS Level 7 stuff] won't make the crossover as well

I'm sure that it will do just fine. The only thing holding it back from the civilian market is fashion taste.

Average person is already dressed in their pants & shirt, sweater, and jacket, with whatever in those pockets. The ECWCS goes over it to protect them from the elements. Sized appropriately to to fit over what they are already wearing. Easy to "don & doff". 2 piece system is more versatile, as you mix & match sizes, or wear just 1 piece at a time. People who will appreciate it the most are the ones who used to walk around with wet pants because they only had a coat. For many years,

I've used insulated coveralls to stay warm in inclement weather, riding motorcycles, and riding motorcycles in inclement weather. Sized up 1 size to fit over my clothes. I can only imagine that most people do not like the way it looks. Fashion taste & trends will keep most people away from what is functional.

warefare these days isn't supposed to be lengthy like in WWII or Korea when you needed to carry all sorts of odds & ends for weeks

The few times I used N-3B parkas, it was non-military. I had a nylon gun belt, on a suspension system, and my handgun was on a thigh holster. And even then, the parka length prevented easy access to my weapon, and the parka zipped & buttoned prevented me from being able to access any of my equipment. For civilian law enforcement, the N-3B was not practical. The new ECWCS Gen 3 Level 7 length is probably designed to be more "tactical".

As to the N3 parkas specifically, I quite sure that the N3 series parka was originally intended to be worn primarily by aircraft maintainers and traffic control and 'air police' standing around on airfields totally exposed to extreme winter weather.

I'm sure you are right. All of those support service roles do not require the wearer to fight.

So whatever the military application and function, it is not for anyone who will be fighting. If we actually had to fight a ground war in the snow, it would be quite the learning experience. I doubt it will ever happen, as trench warfare will never be repeated again. Combat of the future will depend on more technology, long range & medium range assaults, and in urban environments. Gone are the days of meeting the enemy on a predesignated battlefield, digging in trenches, and exchanging volleys. We now have to defend against guerilla fighters, roadside explosives, and drone strikes. Close quarters fire fights will be door to door, in buildings, from rooftops, and in urban centers. I doubt if we will ever have to defend Alaska in hand to hand fighting with knives & smoke grenades. Nor will there ever be a planned invasion of Siberia from across the Bearing Straits.

I'm just interested in the N3-Bs for their usefulness in Midwestern civilian life

Ultimately, the N-3B design is so good, that it's sold every fashion season. And no matter who likes the way it looks, or has any gripe, it is one of the better ways to stay warm. There will always be 1 in my closet. Look at all of those pics. Now think about what those guys are wearing under the parka. None of those guys are wearing just a pair of jeans & a t-shirt under the parka. If you had similar layers, you will be warm.

 

[Fifty150]

And a civilian shenanigan version.

 

[Fifty150]

As to the N3 parkas specifically, I quite sure that the N3 series parka was originally intended to be worn primarily by aircraft maintainers and traffic control and 'air police' standing around on airfields totally exposed to extreme winter weather.

Not a reliable source, but GQ says:

 

[Fifty150]

Here's even less reliable information. Still amusing to read.