Unpopular movie opinions...

[LizzieMaine]

Jean Arthur could out-act Katharine Hepburn any day of the week.

 

[Tiller]

Yes, that is probably it. Of course the same is true with a slew of other actors. Grant played the character he created, so did Bogey, Wayne, etc. I've always found Hepburn to be particularly grating on the nerves.

People enjoyed Wayne, and Bogey though because they portrayed an individual that many of us want to emulate. I think it was that kernel of moral individualism (Gary Cooper, and Gregory Peck play the same kind of characters at times) that they each expressed in their own way, especially when it wasn't overly preachy, which at time Wayne was, although some people like that part of him.

Wayne also had the good graces to poke fun at his image at times with movies such as North to Alaska. I think it's a bit of a shame that Wayne felt he couldn't do Blazing Saddles because of his family image, although from his pov it is understandable.

 

[Nathan Dodge]

Jean Arthur could out-act Katharine Hepburn any day of the week.

I love 'em both, but disagree.

You'll also get some dissent about grating and annoying voice opinions regarding Jean Arthur...but not from me.

 

[John in Covina]

Really? I have a whole group of friends who LOVE that movie! Doug

It's funny in the fact that I saw it in the movies when it came out. Just a few years back bought a copy of the director's cut that has some additional scenes and adds in a bit to make for better continuity. I like and enjoy the film but I don't laugh.

Wonder what makes the difference, age, regionality- something.

 

[Effingham]

BTW not only was Luke originally Luke Starkiller, he was also originally a girl! And Han Solo was originally a lizardman.

The sad thing is, I would have gotten a hell of a kick out of that at one time.

Actually, it has been suggested by some that the TRUE hero of Star Wars, all along, has been Artoo.

My favorite argument holds that Chewie and Artoo were in cahoots, and the heroes of the whole thing.

If you at all liked Star Wars, you should read that last piece. It's a hoot, and darned if it doesn't make sense.

 

[Tiller]

BTW not only was Luke originally Luke Starkiller, he was also originally a girl! And Han Solo was originally a lizardman.

I thought Luke was originally suppose to be an old man and veteran of the "clone wars", and that those traits eventually became Obi Wan.

 

[Feraud]

Jean Arthur could out-act Katharine Hepburn any day of the week.

Agreed.

 

[Atomic Age]

People enjoyed Wayne, and Bogey though because they portrayed an individual that many of us want to emulate. I think it was that kernel of moral individualism (Gary Cooper, and Gregory Peck play the same kind of characters at times) that they each expressed in their own way, especially when it wasn't overly preachy, which at time Wayne was, although some people like that part of him.

Wayne also had the good graces to poke fun at his image at times with movies such as North to Alaska. I think it's a bit of a shame that Wayne felt he couldn't do Blazing Saddles because of his family image, although from his pov it is understandable.

True, but there are many people who find both Wayne and Bogey annoying. Probably more so Wayne than Bogey, but I know a few who just can't watch Bogart and wonder why he was a romantic lead.

Doug

 

[Atomic Age]

I thought Luke was originally suppose to be an old man and veteran of the "clone wars", and that those traits eventually became Obi Wan.

Luke went from being an old man to being a 13 year old girl to a 50 year old General and back to a girl and finally the 20 year old boy we see in the film. Of course the old man became Ben at some point. The girl became Leia. Han seems to be one of the few characters who really didn't change all that much. In fact he seems to be mostly inspired by Lucas' own creation, Bob Falfa from American Graffiti, who I believe was based on a real person Lucas knew.

These things don't just pop out of the writers brain whole cloth. The develop over time.

Doug

 

[John in Covina]

In one of the threads we talked about how certain actors and actresses are always this one person for the most part and the film works if that person is suitable for the role. Clint Eastwood tends to be the same most of the time, Gene Hackman too. Stewart and Wayne did have some range where they could play the dark version of themselves. Stewart in Winchester 66 (?) is pretty dark and Wayne in both the Searchers and Liberty Valance was pretty dark.

Other people can be chameleons, Depp has range and Gary Oldman come to mind.

 

[Atomic Age]

The sad thing is, I would have gotten a hell of a kick out of that at one time.

Actually, it has been suggested by some that the TRUE hero of Star Wars, all along, has been Artoo.

My favorite argument holds that Chewie and Artoo were in cahoots, and the heroes of the whole thing.

If you at all liked Star Wars, you should read that last piece. It's a hoot, and darned if it doesn't make sense.

I don't think of R2 so much as the hero, but rather the plucky side kick who often saves the day. R2 is Fezzik to Luke's Inigo Montoya.

In reality R2 and 3P0 are the elements that were most directly taken from Hidden Fortress, and remain almost unchanged through out all 6 movies.

Doug

 

[Atomic Age]

In one of the threads we talked about how certain actors and actresses are always this one person for the most part and the film works if that person is suitable for the role. Clint Eastwood tends to be the same most of the time, Gene Hackman too. Stewart and Wayne did have some range where they could play the dark version of themselves. Stewart in Winchester 66 (?) is pretty dark and Wayne in both the Searchers and Liberty Valance was pretty dark.

Other people can be chameleons, Depp has range and Gary Oldman come to mind.

Wayne and Stewart were movie stars in the best sense of the word. They were solid and carried the movie on their backs, allowing the character actors around them to do their thing.

A perfect example is Rio Bravo. Wayne is the rock in that movie, and he allows Dean Martin, Walter Brennan and to a lesser extent Ricky Nelson to play flashier parts. If it had just been the kid, the drunk and the old man, I don't think it would have worked as well. But Wayne allows the audience to see these other men through his point of view. Well see the possible redemption of Martin, the potential of Nelson's kid, and the sympathy for Brennan, because of the subtle (yes Wayne really was a subtle actor) way that Wayne reacts to each one.

Gary Oldman and Johnny Depp are both character actors. Depp is a strange case because he is a character actor who happened to become a movie star, but is still playing characters.

Doug

 

[Atomic Age]

It's funny in the fact that I saw it in the movies when it came out. Just a few years back bought a copy of the director's cut that has some additional scenes and adds in a bit to make for better continuity. I like and enjoy the film but I don't laugh.

Wonder what makes the difference, age, regionality- something.

I'm not sure. I was about 14 when 1941 came out. I live in Arizona which isn't that much different from California (I know having lived in LA for about 3 years) culturally. I think it comes down to some comedy works for some people and not others and there is no accounting for it. For the record my mom hated 1941, but then she never liked slapstick.

Doug

 

[Tiller]

Han seems to be one of the few characters who really didn't change all that much. In fact he seems to be mostly inspired by Lucas' own creation, Bob Falfa from American Graffiti, who I believe was based on a real person Lucas knew.

See I though Han was just Lucas' spin on the gunslinger character. You learn something new everyday . Thanks.

True, but there are many people who find both Wayne and Bogey annoying. Probably more so Wayne than Bogey, but I know a few who just can't watch Bogart and wonder why he was a romantic lead.

Half of the thing with Wayne is that some people can't get over his politics. Personally his politics don't bother me much, but even if they did I don't think they take away from his movies.

As far as Bogey's films go, I know some individuals who don't like them, but that is because they don't like any "old" movies. In that sense Bogart very much can be seen as an individual of his age, half of that though has to do with the fact that he died in 57. I still think he is a great actor though.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Gary Oldman and Johnny Depp are both character actors. Depp is a strange case because he is a character actor who happened to become a movie star, but is still playing characters.

The Golden Era equivalent would be Paul Muni.

 

[Effingham]

I don't think of R2 so much as the hero, but rather the plucky side kick who often saves the day. R2 is Fezzik to Luke's Inigo Montoya.

"My name is Luke Skywalker. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
"No, Luke. I *am* your father."
"Oh. Well. Um... prepare to... um..."

 

[Atomic Age]

The Golden Era equivalent would be Paul Muni.

I was trying to think of a classic actor with whom I could compare them, but couldn't think of one . Muni is right on the money!

Doug

 

[Wally_Hood]

Yeah but she plays Hepburn better than anyone!

Doug

cf. Jennifer Jason Leigh playing Katharine Hepburn in The Hudsucker Proxy.

 

[Wally_Hood]

I'm of the unpopular movie opinion that if a poster despises a certain performer, that poster should also submit a performer they do like and doesn't find grating on the nerves, annoying, pretentious, etc; it provides grist for the unpopular opinion mill.

That would be logical, but this is the internet.

 

[Wally_Hood]

. R2 is Fezzik to Luke's Inigo Montoya.

Doug

Or, rather, R2 is Kenny Blankenship to Luke's Vic Romano