Trendy Guys in Trendy Fedoras

[BigSho]

Feltfan you know last year there was a huge problem with the hats that stetson was putting out. We ended up sending more than half of our winter order with them back and I know of a few other people that did the same thing and were livid about it. We all eventually saw a result that was better but not nearly up to snuff to where it should be. Now all Stetson is doing is raising their prices and not their quality. They are owned by a holdings company so they tend to see profits and not hats and I would write them off as a lost cause. Or take Bailey for instance, delving into the topic of branding, started to rebrand themselves 2 years or so ago as Bailey of Hollywood . Along with this someone that is extremley smart over there thought that it would be a great idea to put PERMANENT bailey pins on ALL the hats. They did not want to take them off for us and were ready to let a quite large order be canceled. I must add this is another hat company owned by a giant corporation. We have a very good relationship with just about everyone in this city who sells hats and all the wholesalers too, and we stick together and help each other out when needed. Even so taking on these companies would need something a little larger.

Mr. Lucky I think you hit on the nose with the style issue my friend. I don't know many hat people like the fine hat people on the lounge. They are not the people that I see and deal with everyday on a proffesional basis. I see the regular guy who just wants to wear a hat to look goo. My favorite customers are the jazz and blues musicians, and there style is a far cry from the vintage one much sought after here. But these guys have been wearing hats consistently this whole time where it has seem to have been lost somewhere in the middle of this country. Some might look at them and think they are wearing the hat wrong but it is what has come from their culture, and I say there is nothing more right. So no sir that is not a bad thing at all (well maybe the ball caps but thats another story). "Take the hat and make it your own!."

Jeremy
Hats Plus Ltd.

 

[jamespowers]

The above photos are from between 1938 and 1941. THESE are a regular guys. Off the rack shlubs who wouldn't know an armhole from a...well, you get the picture. THIS is me. This is a lot of guys that I know that still wear hats - whether it be a Stetson XXXX or a ten dollar wooly, they wear the hat just because that's what they do. Now, yes, you get the K-Fed psuedo fedora over the wife beater, but then you get the rest of us. You get guys who look JUST like this (yeah, it's Stallone, but you get the idea)-

And guys like this -

And this -

It's not trend. But, also, by the standards set by some around here, it's not style either. Well, you don't need to have a tailor on retainer to have style and your hat doesn't have to be the best to wear it well. It's not the clothes that make the man...

I don't get it. None of the people in the pictures you posted are wearing their hats wrong. The first two and the last two are quite stylish actually. The second from the top has a good idea of how to tilt a hat just right. :eusa_clap
None of them are backwards, sideways or upside down. The fedora was the every man hat in the years you have pictures posted. Everyone wore them.
The thing in question in this thread is trendy guys in trendy fedoras. None of those guys qualifies. You did however find the perfect example of wrong with K-Fed. :eusa_doh:
I am not quite so sure that the guys in those pictures from 1938 or 1941 wouldn't know anything about hats though. They are old enough in those photos to have been through a few hats. Just going to a haberdashery in those days was an education. You could see tons of hats all in one place and the guy behind the counter would style your hat any way you wanted right in front of you. Most hats came open crown in those days. The factory "blocked for life stuff" came later. Every city worth living in had shops like these. There is no such thing now. You can go for miles without finding one hat shop. When you do the hats are just presented there all ready to go without any real need to interact and have your hat massaged for you or sculpted to your idea of what a cool bash is (present vendors excluded of course). No one spends time teaching the difference between a $100 hat and a $400 hat. Even if they did it might not make a difference anyway as grandpa and dad nowadays don't have anything to get you started on from ground zero anyway. :eusa_doh:
The hat wearing generation from the golden era are disappearing fast and when they are gone there will be few left to look to for such knowledge that was all too common then. In the current issue of Classic Style, there is an article about Cary Grant and how his father taught him how to dress properly and stylishly. Today's new generation have no such luck. They either find it themselves or seek out those who embody it as Grant did learning along the way. Fads and trends fade but being able to put clothing and accessories together stylishly never lets you down---no matter what you wear. Try this. Name an actor today that is stylish and not trendy.

Regards,

J

 

[John in Covina]

Interesting range of topics weaving thru this thread.

Through out time there were experts, interested parties, the guy on the sideline and people without a clue. You name the subject, hats, horses or how to make scrambled eggs. It is the bell curve of interest for a public. I'd say in the golden era more people were knowledgeable about hats and furfelt because it was more a part of life. Hat shops, mens stores with hats and places t get a hat cleaned and reblocked were much more plentiful. A good salesman will help a customer reach a good decision with information. Features and benefits, assitance with selection of color and style, and levels of quality type of information are always a help and chances are a man buying a hat would get an earful. Today, this type of knowledge at a regular store is sadly lacking, When I got my Hueckel fur felt fedora at the Burlington Coat Factory no one stepped up to assist with my purchase as I picked up, tried on, looked at felt and read labels of about two dozen hats. Chances are no one at BCF knows a wit about mens hats, I doubt the buyer at the HQ for BCF knows a heck of a whole lot about hats either.

That experience is more that I know something about fur felt hats and selected a decent hat for $40 over all the wool felt hats. So it is like having enough knowledge to pick out the most valuable coin from all the regular coins in the sale bin at the coin dealer shop.

Now from the BCF stand point, do they want a knowledgeable sales clerk for hats? Doubtful, they would rather have a semi knowledgeable sales clerk selling a suit, or expensive coats, a high ticket item than waste the same amount of time selling hats.

The commitment to service has died and was buried a long time ago in most retail sales. As an aside, why is it when I go to a chain auto parts store, and there are 6 people on line for the one open register, NEVER does any of the multituded of slackjawed assistants standing around doing nothing, come and open another register to help speed you thru?

NIght All!

 

[Mr. Lucky]

I don't get it. None of the people in the pictures you posted are wearing their hats wrong. The first two and the last two are quite stylish actually. The second from the top has a good idea of how to tilt a hat just right. :eusa_clap
None of them are backwards, sideways or upside down. The fedora was the every man hat in the years you have pictures posted. Everyone wore them.
The thing in question in this thread is trendy guys in trendy fedoras. None of those guys qualifies. You did however find the perfect example of wrong with K-Fed. :eusa_doh:
I am not quite so sure that the guys in those pictures from 1938 or 1941 wouldn't know anything about hats though. They are old enough in those photos to have been through a few hats. Just going to a haberdashery in those days was an education. You could see tons of hats all in one place and the guy behind the counter would style your hat any way you wanted right in front of you. Most hats came open crown in those days. The factory "blocked for life stuff" came later. Every city worth living in had shops like these. There is no such thing now. You can go for miles without finding one hat shop. When you do the hats are just presented there all ready to go without any real need to interact and have your hat massaged for you or sculpted to your idea of what a cool bash is (present vendors excluded of course). No one spends time teaching the difference between a $100 hat and a $400 hat. Even if they did it might not make a difference anyway as grandpa and dad nowadays don't have anything to get you started on from ground zero anyway. :eusa_doh:
The hat wearing generation from the golden era are disappearing fast and when they are gone there will be few left to look to for such knowledge that was all too common then. In the current issue of Classic Style, there is an article about Cary Grant and how his father taught him how to dress properly and stylishly. Today's new generation have no such luck. They either find it themselves or seek out those who embody it as Grant did learning along the way. Fads and trends fade but being able to put clothing and accessories together stylishly never lets you down---no matter what you wear. Try this. Name an actor today that is stylish and not trendy.

Regards,

J

I beg to differ, on a couple of points -

First and foremost, the farmer pictured above would look like this -

- today.

It's not a matter of what kind of hat, it's a matter of just having a hat. The ballcap IS the everyman hat of today! Not everyone wears it sideways, etc. My father in law wore a ballcap later in life just as he had wore a fedora prior - a hat was a hat was a hat. And he never left the house without one, that was the main thing.

As well, I have my young cousin staying with us and he went to great lengths to find just the right ballcap. There are numerous stores that specialize in all kinds of ballcaps, which he visited on his pursuit, just like the haberdasheries of yesteryear. There are fitted caps, just like there are fitted fedoras. The right cap means just as much today as the right fedora did back when.

Now, I'm not defending a lot of the trends that come and go, but I do have a problem with folks romanticizing a little too much with regards on how things used to be. There were those who spent many an hour picking out their headwear, and then there were the guys who went into the local Woolworths, picked out a hat, looked in the mirror, paid their five bucks and never thought about it again until they needed a new one. Not everyone was worried about everything all the time in regards to their 'style'. They put on a hat because it kept their head warm or out of the sun or because that's what they did - and many still do, just not with a fur felt, under welted, 2 5/8 inch brim with a grosgrain ribbon of less than two inches.

So, guys are now being exposed to a variation of the fedora again. Great. It works for some, not for others. But, hey, they are now available at Target! Not everyone really gives a crap now, just as they didn't then, about the 'quality' or the 'style' or the equivelency to 'what was'. They buy the hat because A. They like it OR B. They need it. And we, as regular wearers of hats and headwear, shouldn't be snobs or harp on 'what was', unfairly comparing it to 'what is'. We should encourage it. And, or if, some care to learn more, WE are the ones who have the knowledge and WE should share it - without sounding like uppity little prisses if the brim is less than two inches or if it's (Gasp!) made out of wool.

And, finally, I can name three contemporary actors that maintain their own classic, yet contemporary, style - Depp, Clooney, Cheadle.

 

[BigSho]

For the record I and every person that works in my store explain the difference between from $100 to $400 to EVERY customer that doesn't know hats.

Jeremy
Hats Plus Ltd.

 

[Jack Scorpion]

I talk smack on modern fashion, but I think the saturated culture today makes for so many fast, mini trends that it just ain't the same.

It ain't like the 30s where every woman and her mama wanted to talk and dress like Jean Harlow. Stars don't have the same image power that they used to. What is the statistic? Like 85% of the population (exaggeration) saw Gone with the Wind in theaters. A movie blockbusters today and the percentage of America that saw it is still pretty small.

Uniformity ain't the same. Too many subcultures. If we actually could compare fashion today with back then, 90% of America right now would be dressing like Sean Combs.

Part of the reason I think is that fashion over the last 100 years is still considered fairly acceptable. It's possible, but I doubt someone in 1933 would look at some old photos of their grandfather and try and mimic his style of dress. Plus, people back then weren't so jaded with progress like us. Progress to them was exciting and people kept their eyes on the future.

 

[feltfan]

Not everyone really gives a crap now, just as they didn't then, about the 'quality' or the 'style' or the equivelency to 'what was'. They buy the hat because A. They like it OR B. They need it.

Sure. That's what I meant about the choices society offers then
vs. now. People looked better because it was easy. Now it's hard
to find a good hat, so people wear toy hats.

And we, as regular wearers of hats and headwear, shouldn't be snobs or harp on 'what was', unfairly comparing it to 'what is'. We should encourage it. And, or if, some care to learn more, WE are the ones who have the knowledge and WE should share it - without sounding like uppity little prisses if the brim is less than two inches or if it's (Gasp!) made out of wool.

Here is, of course, where you lose me. Why should we encourage
people to wear crummy hats? Sure, if they want to cover their heads
and they use a ballcap or a paper bag, I'm not gonna call my congressperson
and demand a law against it. But I don't think we at the Lounge have
any interest in encouraging head covering per se. And wool hats look
lousy and don't last. I wouldn't encourage buying things that are of
poor quality.

Maybe I don't get it, but it seems to me that on this site we do
encourage people to explore hats w/out actually being "uppity little
prisses" and a lot of people have shared an impressive amount of
knowledge and observations here. But saying that the hats section
of a site dedicated to Golden Era aesthetic is the place for encouraging
trucker caps is like saying coffeegeek.com should embrace Folgers
drinkers or the Sierra Club should be more open minded about oil drilling.
It does not get us where we want to be.

 

[The Wingnut]

I don't think anyone's said this, at least not up front.

Taste is subjective. What's decent or even high quality to one person may be downright ugly or distasteful to the next.

The Lounge grew out of goldenera.net and partly from clubobiwan. The theme, heritage and style of the Lounge is clear, right down to our logo, and significant deviations therefrom will likely be met with some resistance.

Many of those discussing this topic are connoisseurs of '30s to '40s headwear. We're biased. We know what we want, and what we don't want, and most of what's being dug up and aired out as trendy doesn't fit our tastes, and even seems like a pale imitation. To the rest of the world, they don't know, possibly don't care, maybe both, or know the difference and like what's being sold / what's popular today.

I personally have a brown velour stingy brim trilby from Italy made in the '60s and brought back by my grandfather on the Pifferetti side of the family. It hangs on the wall in my closet in a place of honor. It fits my head. I remember seeing him wear it when I was a small child and he was still alive. It's got a considerable amount of sentimental value...

...but I won't wear it. Not because I'm afraid of wearing it out, but because it's just not the style of fedora I wear. I'd have much preferred to inherit the hats he'd gotten rid of when styles changed in the '50s and '60s, the leftovers from the golden era. I can appreciate it, it's well made, it's high-quality felt, but I can't wear it because I put it on my head and I'm just not happy with how it looks. I wouldn't ever let it out of my possession, but I won't wear it, either. It's just not to my taste.

I remember a health insurance commercial about 15 years ago, featuring a man of retirement age talking about how he's going to start learning to play in a jazz band, take up the sax. And I'll finally look good in one of those hats with a small brim... On went a very short crowned fedora with an insane amount of taper and 1 1/2" brim. He sat there fingering away on the valves, in indirect golden light with little dust motes floating all around. He looked good. He pulled it off. He even looked...cool. It works for some.

...but often it's just absurd no matter what the fashion or style, because it's less about what you're wearing and more about the spirit in which you wear it. Pop culture says buy, consume, be on the cutting edge, look like a celebrity, get the latest gadget, be a free, wild spirit...and proceeds to prop up a bunch of characters that have as much depth as a cardboard photo-op cutout. They wear what the image consultant says to wear, or a designer pays to have put in their closet. Let's set a new trend! Tart up the big name and dangle her out in the street! Whoops! Something naughty showed! It's so edgy! It's so hip! Don't you want to be like this?

...and the offensive nature goes beyond the schmaltz machine and right into the image. Guilt by association. Look this way, act this way. Humans make these associations without even knowing it.

I've never wanted to do what others were doing, myself, I want to do the things that please ME. I want to look the way that pleases ME. I define my style, not follow others'. Tell me I'm out of touch, tell me I'm out of style. I dress this way to please myself. It takes some guts to step out of the herd and go your own direction. You get far enough away from the herd and and you don't want anything to do with it. Leave me alone, I've got my world. Don't ask me to accept the herd, I left for a good reason and I'm happy here.


...all according to our taste.

 

[Matthew Dalton]

Youth will always be willing to pay absurd amounts of money for certain items of clothing; I'll underline sneakers.

But I feel most people today will always compare the price of a fur-felt fedora with that of a ball cap... Expensive sneakers have been around and in our faces since birth, we're used to it being that way and will pay what they ask. So have very cheap ball caps.

If I tell people I paid $110AU or so for my Akubra, they are universally shocked. I have to remind them that for one thing, it's made out of rabbit fur and has a leather sweat. It is not a polyester ball cap.

The average young guy today would see paying $100 for a hat being like paying $100 for a pair of socks. You could probably get him to do it if you market them just right. But don't assume he'll pay it just because he's trendy and/or takes a liking to the item when he sees it.

 

[Mike Cash]

My thoughts exactly. I can only add that there is indeed a way to wear it wrong. On a fedora, the pinch should face the front---not the side---not the back. The hat should also be worn crown side up.

Regards,

J

While driving along in Tokyo one day earlier this year, I saw crossing the street an otherwise stylish young Japanese lady wearing a fedora...pinch to the rear and very likely totally unaware that she had it on backwards.

 

[Fletch]

But saying that the hats section
of a site dedicated to Golden Era aesthetic is the place for encouraging
trucker caps is like saying coffeegeek.com should embrace Folgers
drinkers or the Sierra Club should be more open minded about oil drilling.
It does not get us where we want to be.

I fully encourage trucker caps...this kind anyway:

Diner, U.S. 40, Aberdeen, Maryland, 1943. From the Route 40 Scrapbook.

 

[Mr. Lucky]

Here is, of course, where you lose me. Why should we encourage
people to wear crummy hats? Sure, if they want to cover their heads
and they use a ballcap or a paper bag, I'm not gonna call my congressperson
and demand a law against it. But I don't think we at the Lounge have
any interest in encouraging head covering per se. And wool hats look
lousy and don't last. I wouldn't encourage buying things that are of
poor quality.

Why should we encourage crummy hats? Because they are a gateway to something better AND they are what's available to most. A neophyte picks up a cheap Bronner stingy, likes the look, thinks he's the bee's knees and doesn't know that there are better hats out there! Hell, I HAD to start with a vintage, mainly because it's all that was out there at the time! I've worn hats since I was four, and some of those were, well, they definitely fell into the less tasteful category. I didn't know better. I didn't have the internet to help me find out what 'good' was. I had to find out on my own. Now, with places like this, we can guide others to find what is their style - and if that includes purchasing less than what we consider quality, so be it. Especially if the next time around, after a wool gets washed out in the rain and a newbie asks why, we can explain what happened and how a nicer hat wouldn't do that. Then it's up to them. But WE are salespersons, the persons with the knowledge.

Maybe I don't get it, but it seems to me that on this site we do
encourage people to explore hats w/out actually being "uppity little
prisses" and a lot of people have shared an impressive amount of
knowledge and observations here. But saying that the hats section
of a site dedicated to Golden Era aesthetic is the place for encouraging
trucker caps is like saying coffeegeek.com should embrace Folgers
drinkers or the Sierra Club should be more open minded about oil drilling.
It does not get us where we want to be.

I never advocated the wearing of trucker caps, I just put them in some historical context. Having said that, I have seen well, uppity behavior by some around here. Now, I like this place and I like the people who particiapte here - they are unusually intelligent and knowledgable and civil. But I have also seen, in my brief tenure, those that have come here seeking knowledge or commaraderie, while posting not the best of quality hat or a hat that is too contemporary, been utterly snubbed when they start a new thread. Now, if I were to do that, risking exposure and posting a picture of myself and then have NO ONE respond, or the responses being less than, shall we say, nice -- I'd say the hell with hats! This hasn't happened much around here, true. But there is this tiny bit of elitism that floats about. How can someone learn if there is not someone willing to teach - even the lowliest or fashion challenged of students? How can a Folgers drinker learn about Torrefazione if the persons(s) they seek help from ignore them?

Again, this is just a small thing and pervades very minutely here - but it does exist. There's nothing wrong with being a conniseur of style and taste - but there's no reason or justification for the elevation of one above the other. As Wingnut said, style is subjective. And those who wish to expand their knowledge should be encouraged, not mocked or ignored. WE are the available pillars of hat knowledge, due to the internet. And WE are the representatives of the style that we hold dear. And if you want that to actually mean something and to grow, don't you think it needs to be represented well? Next time a new person shows up around here and posts a picture of some K-Fed special that they think is the best thing since sliced pepperoni, maybe some might be quicker to act -

"Hey, nice hat. But, next time you might want to try a wool fedora or a lower end fur felt."

"Gee, what's 'fur-felt'? What's the difference?"

"Well, let me tell you..."

 

[Mr Maltby]

I just wanted to interject I greatly enjoyed the thought of a cheap fedora being similar to a gateway drug.

 

[Mr. Lucky]

I just wanted to interject I greatly enjoyed the thought of a cheap fedora being similar to a gateway drug.

Glad someone got that. And I, myself, am guilty of such an addiction, some forty hats later...

 

[RedPop4]

Custom fur felt are out of my reach price-wise.
I bought a "cheap" Montecristi from Panama Bob this spring, my wife nearly had a stroke at an $89 hat. She continues to "tease" me by telling all her friends that her husband bought an $89 hat.

A hat is something I definitely enjoy, and I wear one daily. But I have other priorities for my money. Even a nice Akubra is about that same price, I can't justify it. Yes, I know furfelt makes the best hats, but there's not much I can do about the financial situation.

I get value from the wool hats I have, I'm very careful with my hats, as well. I'm constantly perusing the auction site for deals, as this is the only way I can do it. My kid's tuition and other things are more important in the grand scheme of our lives than making certain that I have the approval of Loungers. No offense meant, by the by, as I like all of you.

 

[The Wingnut]

Tease her about her most expensive pair of shoes in return

 

[Mr Maltby]

redpop-

I think that situation is kinda different. Youre responsible for the likes of more than just you. Actually, I think it ties in perfectly with some of what feltfan was saying. If the hat industry would make quality good, like in the days of yore, you wouldnt have to buy wool felt. You would get fur felt off the shelf, for the same price you pay for wool. Thus eliminating any pressure you may feel to upgrade, imposed by your fellow man! If anyone around here makes you feel bad, ask them to split the difference with you for the upgrade. If they arent willing, then they probably shouldnt be making comments

 

[RedPop4]

Tease her about her most expensive pair of shoes in return

She's good about shoes, compared to many women. She DOES go through a fair amount of shoes, however she's diabetic, and if the shoes aren't exactly right, she can't wear them. Her mother, also diabetic, is down to only 7 toes because of it.

I try and give her hell about spending $4-$5 per day at the convenience store on Diet Cokes and snacks.

 

[BigSho]

Red I know how you feel I am 23 and my dad owns a hat store but I still don't have the hat that I would love to have because I can't afford it (it will come one day Art ). Thats part of finding that hat to fit the man, and for now I will make due with my Stetson Temples that barley fit. Red you know what I do when I want to save for soemthing I cant afford I throw all my loose change and dollar bills in a jar. It adds up quick I bought a digital SLR to feed my photgraphy bug that way .

Hats are a gatewway drug I see it everyday. A man with no real hat knowledge of hats comes in and ask to see the best. So what else am I to do but show him the best, and sticker shock so they end up with a wool felt or a lower quality fur in the 75 to 80 range. But with the ones that want to wear hats and truly like the style they come back and they keep moving up.

Jeremy
Hats PLus Ltd.

 

[feltfan]

Roundup

As this debate, maybe, winds down, I'd just like to
say that we have no idea who reads this forum.
If someone is reading this who cares about quality hats
and can do something about it, get in touch. By that
I mean either seed money to start a new
company or perhaps a division of an
established hat company. I would be glad to lead such
an effort (along the lines I have described here) or
participate in a "brain trust" (to use the Golden Era term)
to get such a product off the ground.

<HR>

Fletch, I'm right there with ya on the trucker caps.

Matthew Dalton, it's entirely possible I have no idea
what teen and twentysomethings would buy. But
hats are popular enough with middleaged people to
make a market. Most of the wool fedoras I see are
on older heads.

Mr. Lucky, just so's you know this isn't a forum
on keeping heads warm. The gateway drug theory
has been disproved regarding pot many times, but
it does seem to be a problem for some hat buyers...

Wingnut, :eusa_clap :cheers1: :eusa_clap

RedPop4, glad you brought up PanamaBob. It seems to
me he's doing with panama hats exactly what should be
done with felt. A quality product in a modest sized market.
Of course he's also doing some good works on the side.
Geez, I better get one of his hats soon!
And BTW, many of my best vintage hats have cost much
less than $89. Just keep looking.