KY Gentleman
One Too Many
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- 1,881
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- Kentucky
I tie mine around the front.
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Trench Coat - the 'Ultimate' Thread!
- Thread starter MK
- Start date
classyguy
Familiar Face
- Messages
- 51
- Location
- Windsor, ON
I just let it hang there...for some reason I don't like tying it. Im debating taking the thing out of the coat.
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Ugarte
A-List Customer
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Tomasso said:
Me too. Though the belt on my current Charles Klein is kind of odd -- it feels really stiff when I put it in the pockets but is so soft that when I tie it in front I have to tie it in a granny or square knot to get it to stay.
Anyway, I'm just saying.
Mark
.
Alan Eardley
One Too Many
- Messages
- 1,500
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- Midlands, UK
Loungers in the Birmingham (UK) area may wish to make their way to Vintage Clothing in Digbeth who currently have an old-pattern (1960s) Burberry trench coat in the heavier, darker twill in the longer length with the heavier brass fittings on the sale rack for 30GBP. It's a large.
Not wartime, but the next best thing!
Alan
Not wartime, but the next best thing!
Alan
nightandthecity
Practically Family
- Messages
- 904
- Location
- 1938
LOST WORLDS TRENCH & "GRENFELL CLOTH"
LOST WORLDS are currently doing a limited reproduction 1940s Trench Coat in Grenfell Cloth - this superb fabric was the Goretex of the 1920s-1960s era and very hard to source nowadays. (WARNING: the LW web page includes a piece of authentic 1930s pornography. Given lounge policy on such matters I haven’t included a link, but I’m sure those who want to can easily find the Lost Worlds site on their own!)
“Grenfell” was the invention of Walter Haythornthwaite of Burnley in Lancashire - the first big town to the west of me, nowadays a typical run down, ex-industrial scrap-heap - back then one of the hubs of the world textile industry.
It was something of a miracle fabric - a densely woven 100% cotton gabardine, woven so fine that it defied initial attempts to dye it! It was used in the finest outdoors, sporting and military clothing for some 40 years including the best quality trench coats. Small quantities of Grenfell are still made by various companies from time to time, but it is a rare and specialist fabric today.
On Sunday I’m listing a beautiful Grenfell hiking/climbing jacket or “windcheater” on eBay. Here’s a brief history I wrote for the listing and some good links…..
A BRIEF HISTORY OF GRENFELL CLOTH - introduced in 1923 by Haythornthwaites of Burnley, a small family textile firm, the name and the inspiration came from the arctic medical missionary Sir Wilfred Grenfell, who had asked for a miracle cloth that was hardwearing, lightweight, windproof, waterproof, and breathable. Up till then various materials were available meeting some of these requirements, but none that adequately met them all. The weave of Grenfell was so fine and close that at first it proved almost impossible to dye!
“Grenfell” was so successful that in 1931 Walter Haythornthwaite formed a separate company solely devoted to marketing Grenfell cloth and garments. For several decades Grenfell reigned supreme in outdoorswear. It was worn by leading racing drivers, including both Sir Malcolm and Donald Campbell on their land and water speed record attempts, on most major climbing expeditions from 1930 to 1963, and was the inspiration for similar military fabrics like Ventile and Byrd cloth.
In the 1950s Grenfell faced stiff competition from Ventile, a similar fabric developed by the military during WW2. However, though Ventile was arguably superior, it was also more expensive, and it was not until faced with competition from cheap PU coated nylon clothing in the 1960s and 70s that Grenfell’s reign drew to a close, and production almost ceased. Haythornthwaites survived by cutting back on its world famous cloth and diversifying. The family finally sold the firm to a Japanese cashmere company in 1991. If you want to know more read these links…..
http://www.haythornthwaite.com/GrenHistory.htm
http://www.haythornthwaite.com/GrenfellWeaving.htm
http://www.haythornthwaite.com/GrenfellAtSpeed.htm
http://www.haythornthwaite.com/GrenfellHighPlaces.htm
http://grenfelluk.com/origins.php
LOST WORLDS are currently doing a limited reproduction 1940s Trench Coat in Grenfell Cloth - this superb fabric was the Goretex of the 1920s-1960s era and very hard to source nowadays. (WARNING: the LW web page includes a piece of authentic 1930s pornography. Given lounge policy on such matters I haven’t included a link, but I’m sure those who want to can easily find the Lost Worlds site on their own!)
“Grenfell” was the invention of Walter Haythornthwaite of Burnley in Lancashire - the first big town to the west of me, nowadays a typical run down, ex-industrial scrap-heap - back then one of the hubs of the world textile industry.
It was something of a miracle fabric - a densely woven 100% cotton gabardine, woven so fine that it defied initial attempts to dye it! It was used in the finest outdoors, sporting and military clothing for some 40 years including the best quality trench coats. Small quantities of Grenfell are still made by various companies from time to time, but it is a rare and specialist fabric today.
On Sunday I’m listing a beautiful Grenfell hiking/climbing jacket or “windcheater” on eBay. Here’s a brief history I wrote for the listing and some good links…..
A BRIEF HISTORY OF GRENFELL CLOTH - introduced in 1923 by Haythornthwaites of Burnley, a small family textile firm, the name and the inspiration came from the arctic medical missionary Sir Wilfred Grenfell, who had asked for a miracle cloth that was hardwearing, lightweight, windproof, waterproof, and breathable. Up till then various materials were available meeting some of these requirements, but none that adequately met them all. The weave of Grenfell was so fine and close that at first it proved almost impossible to dye!
“Grenfell” was so successful that in 1931 Walter Haythornthwaite formed a separate company solely devoted to marketing Grenfell cloth and garments. For several decades Grenfell reigned supreme in outdoorswear. It was worn by leading racing drivers, including both Sir Malcolm and Donald Campbell on their land and water speed record attempts, on most major climbing expeditions from 1930 to 1963, and was the inspiration for similar military fabrics like Ventile and Byrd cloth.
In the 1950s Grenfell faced stiff competition from Ventile, a similar fabric developed by the military during WW2. However, though Ventile was arguably superior, it was also more expensive, and it was not until faced with competition from cheap PU coated nylon clothing in the 1960s and 70s that Grenfell’s reign drew to a close, and production almost ceased. Haythornthwaites survived by cutting back on its world famous cloth and diversifying. The family finally sold the firm to a Japanese cashmere company in 1991. If you want to know more read these links…..
http://www.haythornthwaite.com/GrenHistory.htm
http://www.haythornthwaite.com/GrenfellWeaving.htm
http://www.haythornthwaite.com/GrenfellAtSpeed.htm
http://www.haythornthwaite.com/GrenfellHighPlaces.htm
http://grenfelluk.com/origins.php
The Burberry's are not worth the retail price, at least not the modern ones, they seem flimsy. People pay up for the lining pattern. In any decent rain they will soak through, may be fine for London rain but not New York. I've seen older Burberry's that were made of a much heavier material, seemed like Grenfell. I wish I had gotten one of those Grenfell Trenches that Orvis was selling last year for 495.00, missed that one.
Feraud
Bartender
- Messages
- 17,190
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- Hardlucksville, NY
Agreed. The only Burberry's worth the price are second hand.HDRnR said:
- Messages
- 6,099
- Location
- Acton, Massachusetts
My Burberry is iron-clad, two years old, and holds up to everything the Boston winter throws at it.
What's wrong with my London Fog Trench Coat
This is my first post down here, I usually stop in up in the Fedora section, so my apologies is this has been answered already.
Anyhow, I have a London Fog trench coat I acquired about fifteen years ago or so. It's a nice trench coat, of the classic style. However, it's picking up sort of an odd orange tinge in some places. In a few places, such as in the belt, or in the cuff straps, it's pretty noticeable.
I thought cleaning might help at one time, but it made no impact at all. If it keeps up, and I see no reason that it won't, I"ll have to quit wearing it. What's wrong with it?
This is my first post down here, I usually stop in up in the Fedora section, so my apologies is this has been answered already.
Anyhow, I have a London Fog trench coat I acquired about fifteen years ago or so. It's a nice trench coat, of the classic style. However, it's picking up sort of an odd orange tinge in some places. In a few places, such as in the belt, or in the cuff straps, it's pretty noticeable.
I thought cleaning might help at one time, but it made no impact at all. If it keeps up, and I see no reason that it won't, I"ll have to quit wearing it. What's wrong with it?
Feraud
Bartender
- Messages
- 17,190
- Location
- Hardlucksville, NY
Pat_H said:
If the belt and cuffs have leather buckles it is probably the color from the leather.
Feraud said:
Thanks.
In looking at it, it doesn't seem limited to areas in contact with the buckle, but almost seems to be at wear points. As I just tie the belt, rather than buckle it, it's particularly noticilbe where the belt gets sort of wrapped up.
Baron Kurtz
I'll Lock Up
- Messages
- 12,784
sounds like degradation of a waterproofing treatment.
bk
bk
NonEntity
Suspended
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- 281
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- Southeastern U.S.
The original London Fog water resistant treatment will not discolor, but time and even a single dry cleaning can remove most all of it. Two light coats of Scotchguard will restore it to the same water resistance as when new, will not discolor either, but will not last as long and dry-clean out even more readily than the original.
I've seen this rusty color appear on water-resistant garments before, and in most cases, was able to trace it back to a dry cleaner that did the "favor" of putting its own water repellant in. Staining takes a while to manifest itself and shows up most prominently where the garment is handled the most--in the case of a trench coat, the belt, on the placket near buttons, and around the cuffs. Something about how one's body oil reacts with the treatment causes the discoloration.
The EPA regulates dry cleaners so strictly these days that they are barred from using strong chemicals, so they won't be able to remove this stain even if you knew exactly what the concoction was that caused it.
However, you can get this discoloration out yourself by using naphtha, a kick-butt liquid the dry cleaners used to use in the good/bad old days when freshly cleaned clothes reaked of it. You must be very careful with this stuff, because it's a petroleum-based aromatic solvent that evaporates very quickly, and if inhaled, can render you horizontal ASAP when used in an enclosed space. It's also highly explosive when exposed to an open flame.
Still interested?
First, get naphtha at a hardware or painting supply store. A gallon purchased there will cost less than a tiny bottle elswhere, and you're going to need a good bit to cover the whole coat. That's right, the whole coat, for the treatment in it causing the discoloration is on every square inch of it but has simply not shown up yet where it has not been handled a lot.
Zip out the coat's lining and either remove or carefully dodge anything that's not the fabric such as buttons, belt/sleeve buckles. Put the coat on a wooden hangar, NOT a plastic one, as naphtha literally dissolves such material.
Next, go outside and hang the coat so that it dangles freely. Remove the belt and put it on a separate hangar. Put on chemical-proof rubber gloves, protective safety goggles, open the container of naphtha, and apply a generous amount to a lintless synthetic fiber rag. Yes, I said "generous" because naphtha evaporates so fast, but not so much that the rag will drip. To get the hang of it, do the belt first, starting as close as you dare to the buckle and working down both sides. On the coat itself, start at the collar and work your way down, rubbing the the fabric "with the grain" in one direction, taking care to miss no spots, like the inside of the collar, pockets, and sleeves, the inside portion of the placket. You'll have to reapply the naphtha on the rag several times.
Remember, if you get naphtha on a plastic button or buckle, you'll immedidately see the "Salvador Dali effect," but this chemical will not harm the fabric at all. This procedure should get every vestige of the rusty-looking discoloration out, as well as any other conceivable stain.
Your jacket will smell like jet fuel. While that may turn on the sexy stewardess next door, you and most people probably won't like it, so let the garment air outside for a day or two before applying Scotchguard as described above.
Finally, the next time you have it dry cleaned, ensure they do not apply any water repellant.
I've seen this rusty color appear on water-resistant garments before, and in most cases, was able to trace it back to a dry cleaner that did the "favor" of putting its own water repellant in. Staining takes a while to manifest itself and shows up most prominently where the garment is handled the most--in the case of a trench coat, the belt, on the placket near buttons, and around the cuffs. Something about how one's body oil reacts with the treatment causes the discoloration.
The EPA regulates dry cleaners so strictly these days that they are barred from using strong chemicals, so they won't be able to remove this stain even if you knew exactly what the concoction was that caused it.
However, you can get this discoloration out yourself by using naphtha, a kick-butt liquid the dry cleaners used to use in the good/bad old days when freshly cleaned clothes reaked of it. You must be very careful with this stuff, because it's a petroleum-based aromatic solvent that evaporates very quickly, and if inhaled, can render you horizontal ASAP when used in an enclosed space. It's also highly explosive when exposed to an open flame.
Still interested?
First, get naphtha at a hardware or painting supply store. A gallon purchased there will cost less than a tiny bottle elswhere, and you're going to need a good bit to cover the whole coat. That's right, the whole coat, for the treatment in it causing the discoloration is on every square inch of it but has simply not shown up yet where it has not been handled a lot.
Zip out the coat's lining and either remove or carefully dodge anything that's not the fabric such as buttons, belt/sleeve buckles. Put the coat on a wooden hangar, NOT a plastic one, as naphtha literally dissolves such material.
Next, go outside and hang the coat so that it dangles freely. Remove the belt and put it on a separate hangar. Put on chemical-proof rubber gloves, protective safety goggles, open the container of naphtha, and apply a generous amount to a lintless synthetic fiber rag. Yes, I said "generous" because naphtha evaporates so fast, but not so much that the rag will drip. To get the hang of it, do the belt first, starting as close as you dare to the buckle and working down both sides. On the coat itself, start at the collar and work your way down, rubbing the the fabric "with the grain" in one direction, taking care to miss no spots, like the inside of the collar, pockets, and sleeves, the inside portion of the placket. You'll have to reapply the naphtha on the rag several times.
Remember, if you get naphtha on a plastic button or buckle, you'll immedidately see the "Salvador Dali effect," but this chemical will not harm the fabric at all. This procedure should get every vestige of the rusty-looking discoloration out, as well as any other conceivable stain.
Your jacket will smell like jet fuel. While that may turn on the sexy stewardess next door, you and most people probably won't like it, so let the garment air outside for a day or two before applying Scotchguard as described above.
Finally, the next time you have it dry cleaned, ensure they do not apply any water repellant.
- Messages
- 7,425
- Location
- METROPOLIS OF EUROPA
USAAF Burberry WWII styling (pics)
I was experimenting with lighting and positions to try and capture a vintage 'look' and took the opportunity to get the old Burberry out. It gives the 'illusion' I hope of it being older and more vintage than it 'really' is. I even tried a 'film noirish' look to one of them, as if something 'horrible' was going to happen (eg: the dog is about to knock my glass of wine over!!).
I was experimenting with lighting and positions to try and capture a vintage 'look' and took the opportunity to get the old Burberry out. It gives the 'illusion' I hope of it being older and more vintage than it 'really' is. I even tried a 'film noirish' look to one of them, as if something 'horrible' was going to happen (eg: the dog is about to knock my glass of wine over!!).
NonEntity
Suspended
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- 281
- Location
- Southeastern U.S.
I did not mean to scare you, but knowing you'd be a first-time naphtha user, simply wanted to stress safety. As long as you use it outdoors nowhere near an open flame, you'll be fine. The goggles and gloves probably aren't even necessary, but, again, I say safety first.
The EPA banned naphtha from commercial cleaners not for the safety of people but because of damage to the environment. The small amount individuals use has close to zero effect on the environment, so it's still available for sale to them.
I encourage you to proceed as above with cleaning your otherwise good London Fog trench coat. People over on the "Hats" section use naphtha all the time to successfully clean felt fedoras, which is much more tricky than cleaning a coat.
I got my London Fog trench coat about the same time as you, so it may be the same model. The sewn-in white label in the collar says "London Fog Maincoats weatherwear of distinction." Below a logo of what appears to be the Big Ben clock tower, it reads "Trademarks of Londontown Corporation London Baltimore New York." Another white label, stitched in the inside of the lower right placket, says "Woven Exclusively For London Fog By Greenwood," and goes on to give the fabric composition and cleaning instructions. Now is the first time I ever read them, and though it says the coat can be dry cleaned, it also says it's machine washable! The size tag sticks out from the bottom of this label.
Mine has epaulettes and a "gun flap," buttoned down on the corner, on the right shoulder only. Belt and sleeve buckles are brown plastic. The shell of my khaki coat (they also came in black and navy blue) is 65% dacron polyester, 35% combed cotton, woven in a very tight, even pattern so that there's no difference between the warp and weft, making it highly wind-resistant, even though it's quite thin. On the other hand, the acrylic zip-out lining does very little to confer warmth, so you absolutely must layer a sweater AND a suit or sport coat AND scarf beneath, or you will shiver even in temps in the mid-40s F.
It's held up extraordinarily well, especially remarkable given that, since I travel by air from one climate extreme to another, I always carry it with me. I end up toting it much more than I actually wear it, which, I learned, beats it more and gets it dirtier than putting it on. Oh, well, always be prepared.
This London Fog is not a fine coat, far from it, but it's all I could afford back then; I think I paid about $150 for it at an upscale department store, and it continues to serve me well. While I would never grab this coat for warmth without layering beneath, it is excellent in wind and rain, and by applying Scotchguard twice a year, it remains virtually water proof.
That's important for a guy like me who finds umbrellas bothersome. Ever notice how wet you get when getting in and out of cars with a bumbershoot? I usually have a briefcase or at least a portfolio in one hand, and the brella in the other leaves no free hand to open doors, answer my cell, have a smoke, or, as the case may be, draw my 9mm to fend off marauders. With fedora on my head, rubber Totes on my feet, and my trench coat, I'm ready for a monsoon.
In early '99, I had just moved to Dallas and was in the North Park Mall for the first time. Seeing the Brooks Brothers store, I wandered in, cautiously, for its prices can be scary. There, on a rack just inside the door, were the Burberry trench coats, both mid-weight and heavy weight, yet styled so similarly they were otherwise hard to tell apart.
The sales guy approaches and helps me try on one of each. I was honestly just killing time, and didn't even look at the prices. He said they were all marked down for the after-Christmas sale, but the heavy weight model, for which I was salivating, was dramatically reduced to "only a thousand." That would be dollars. He said they just didn't sell there in Dallas, where it seldom drops below freezing all winter, so they'd marked those way down to try to move them out.
I was not going to drop 10 bills on a trench coat I'd rarely ever wear when I already had a perfectly good one, though the Burberry trench was the nicest one I'd ever seen and felt, and the full-cut 42 long fit perfectly over the Harris tweed sport coat and thick cashmere sweater I had on. Had on my fedora, too. Then the manager walked up from behind, saying he thought he'd seen Humphrey Bogart. Flattery was not going to get him anywhere, but I did do my Bogy impression by reciting verbatim his famous good-bye speech to Ingrid Bergman near the end of Casablanca.
Staying in character as I took the coat off, I told him I wouldn't pay a thin dime over $750. To my astonishment, the manager readily agreed, but I walked away, attempting to keep respectability by pointing out that sales tax would make the coat far more than ten cents over $750.
I've regretted that decision ever since. I had a chance to buy the superb, brand new heavyweight Burberry with the wool collar-over lining for only $750 (plus tax), but put rational thought ahead of judgement and passed it up. Now, the quality of Burberry has gone down while the price remains high, and I'd be lucky to find a pre-owned oldie in my size in excellent condition at any price.
Guess I'll just have to be satisfied with my trusty London Fog that refuses to wear out.
The EPA banned naphtha from commercial cleaners not for the safety of people but because of damage to the environment. The small amount individuals use has close to zero effect on the environment, so it's still available for sale to them.
I encourage you to proceed as above with cleaning your otherwise good London Fog trench coat. People over on the "Hats" section use naphtha all the time to successfully clean felt fedoras, which is much more tricky than cleaning a coat.
I got my London Fog trench coat about the same time as you, so it may be the same model. The sewn-in white label in the collar says "London Fog Maincoats weatherwear of distinction." Below a logo of what appears to be the Big Ben clock tower, it reads "Trademarks of Londontown Corporation London Baltimore New York." Another white label, stitched in the inside of the lower right placket, says "Woven Exclusively For London Fog By Greenwood," and goes on to give the fabric composition and cleaning instructions. Now is the first time I ever read them, and though it says the coat can be dry cleaned, it also says it's machine washable! The size tag sticks out from the bottom of this label.
Mine has epaulettes and a "gun flap," buttoned down on the corner, on the right shoulder only. Belt and sleeve buckles are brown plastic. The shell of my khaki coat (they also came in black and navy blue) is 65% dacron polyester, 35% combed cotton, woven in a very tight, even pattern so that there's no difference between the warp and weft, making it highly wind-resistant, even though it's quite thin. On the other hand, the acrylic zip-out lining does very little to confer warmth, so you absolutely must layer a sweater AND a suit or sport coat AND scarf beneath, or you will shiver even in temps in the mid-40s F.
It's held up extraordinarily well, especially remarkable given that, since I travel by air from one climate extreme to another, I always carry it with me. I end up toting it much more than I actually wear it, which, I learned, beats it more and gets it dirtier than putting it on. Oh, well, always be prepared.
This London Fog is not a fine coat, far from it, but it's all I could afford back then; I think I paid about $150 for it at an upscale department store, and it continues to serve me well. While I would never grab this coat for warmth without layering beneath, it is excellent in wind and rain, and by applying Scotchguard twice a year, it remains virtually water proof.
That's important for a guy like me who finds umbrellas bothersome. Ever notice how wet you get when getting in and out of cars with a bumbershoot? I usually have a briefcase or at least a portfolio in one hand, and the brella in the other leaves no free hand to open doors, answer my cell, have a smoke, or, as the case may be, draw my 9mm to fend off marauders. With fedora on my head, rubber Totes on my feet, and my trench coat, I'm ready for a monsoon.
In early '99, I had just moved to Dallas and was in the North Park Mall for the first time. Seeing the Brooks Brothers store, I wandered in, cautiously, for its prices can be scary. There, on a rack just inside the door, were the Burberry trench coats, both mid-weight and heavy weight, yet styled so similarly they were otherwise hard to tell apart.
The sales guy approaches and helps me try on one of each. I was honestly just killing time, and didn't even look at the prices. He said they were all marked down for the after-Christmas sale, but the heavy weight model, for which I was salivating, was dramatically reduced to "only a thousand." That would be dollars. He said they just didn't sell there in Dallas, where it seldom drops below freezing all winter, so they'd marked those way down to try to move them out.
I was not going to drop 10 bills on a trench coat I'd rarely ever wear when I already had a perfectly good one, though the Burberry trench was the nicest one I'd ever seen and felt, and the full-cut 42 long fit perfectly over the Harris tweed sport coat and thick cashmere sweater I had on. Had on my fedora, too. Then the manager walked up from behind, saying he thought he'd seen Humphrey Bogart. Flattery was not going to get him anywhere, but I did do my Bogy impression by reciting verbatim his famous good-bye speech to Ingrid Bergman near the end of Casablanca.
Staying in character as I took the coat off, I told him I wouldn't pay a thin dime over $750. To my astonishment, the manager readily agreed, but I walked away, attempting to keep respectability by pointing out that sales tax would make the coat far more than ten cents over $750.
I've regretted that decision ever since. I had a chance to buy the superb, brand new heavyweight Burberry with the wool collar-over lining for only $750 (plus tax), but put rational thought ahead of judgement and passed it up. Now, the quality of Burberry has gone down while the price remains high, and I'd be lucky to find a pre-owned oldie in my size in excellent condition at any price.
Guess I'll just have to be satisfied with my trusty London Fog that refuses to wear out.
I just went up and read the label on mine. It indicates it's "dry clean only", and that it was made exclusively for London Fog by the Londontown Corporation.
Like yours, mine has been a darned good coat. I bought it on sale, and it's held up well. The only defect is the coloration problem noted, and that a dry cleaner damaged the lining zipper somehow at one time. Like yours, it is not warm enough to wear without something beneath it, but it works great in most circumstances when I wear a wool sport coat.
I'd hate to think of having to replace it, and frankly if it gets too severely ratty, I doubt I could find a suitable replacement locally.
Like yours, mine has been a darned good coat. I bought it on sale, and it's held up well. The only defect is the coloration problem noted, and that a dry cleaner damaged the lining zipper somehow at one time. Like yours, it is not warm enough to wear without something beneath it, but it works great in most circumstances when I wear a wool sport coat.
I'd hate to think of having to replace it, and frankly if it gets too severely ratty, I doubt I could find a suitable replacement locally.
